Maiden Voyage= Failure

[DJ S]

After what seemed to be endless Sunday afternoons, we finally got the new Tudor road worthy, at least so we thought.

My grandfather and I have been looking forward to this day for weeks now and we finally got the car ready. We spent the entire day rechecking our work, cleaning the plugs, and packing supplies that we may need in case the car decided to quit on us. You could have sworn we were packing in preparation for an apocalyptic event.

The car had been progressively losing power over the last two weeks. I had noticed, a couple of weeks back that a manifold washer was missing and appeared to have broken and fallen off. We didn't think much of it because we sprayed carburetor cleaner around the edges of the intake manifold ports and noticed no change in idle which caused us to make the conclusion that there was no vacuum leak. We never however retested for a vacuum leak as the loss of power became an apparent problem. With these problems in mind we still believed that we should take the car for a ride.

We climbed into the car and drove straight to the gas station where we filled up on gas. The gas tank has a minor leakage so he cautiously added a gallon of gas at a time, as I closely monitoring the gas tank. We made it up to half a tank when we decided that we shouldn't push our luck any further. Now with a half a tank of gas, we were defiantly ready!

Once again, we climbed into the car and set off down the road. The car quickly displayed its flaws! The clutch chattered like crazy! Not only does it chatter but the clutch engaged extremely high. The clutch wasn't the only problem we I quickly picked up on... the front end was also a very obvious problem! If the car hit a moderate bump going 35 mph, the front tires shook unbelievably!

Along with the problems addressed above, the engine was sputtering and "chugging". The car felt like it wanted to get up and go but once you hit the accelerator peddle, there was no power what so ever!!! At 40 mph the car felt almost over worked. In response, we tried to be easy on the old car and drove at a more comfortable speed. All of these observations were made in under 3 miles of driving!

We were just 3 miles from the house when we reached a slit incline. As we reached the top of the incline when all HELL broke loose!!! A shower of anti-freeze came at us and splashed all over the windshield (thank god for windshields)!!! The car started sputtering and backfiring like crazy!! I quickly cut the ignition and my grandpa pulled over to the side of the road. As we were sitting there in complete shock i looked down a small hole in the fire wall and saw an orange flickering coming from the engine compartment! Without hesitation I leaped over the seat and grabbed the fire extinguisher! There was no way that car was going to end its life in a blaze! NOT ON MY WATCH! I ran out of the car and opened that hood quicker than i had ever before and saw some flames coming for the exhaust manifold that quickly went out on its own. I was so relieved that there was no major fire that involved the fuel system.

My Grandpa quickly joined me leaning over the car. We immediately got to work drying the wires. After we got the wires all dried, we realized we had forgotten WATER! Of all things we forgot WATER! My grandpa approached a nearby house where he got water while I got a hold of my uncle who followed my grandpa as he attempted to drive the car back to the house after it had cooled off. I got in with my uncle because i was awfully shaken up! While I was watching the car, I noticed the rear tires wobbled quite a bit... The car was SO CLOSE to the house when it overheated again! My Grandpa made it to the top of a hill when it quit! It was all downhill to the house but the hill didn't give the car enough momentum to make it back so my uncle had me jump out of the car and push my grandpa the rest of the way home! Once I began pushing my Grandpa yelled "Hey! Extra horsepower"! Boy did I look like a fool pushing that car and it sure was a lot of work! I made it a little over 1/2 the way to the house when my uncle had to jump out of his car and lend me a hand. We finally got the car in front of the house!

After the car cooled off, we couldn't get the starter to turn over! We cleaned all the electrical connections going to and from the battery and finally got the car started again. While it was runny I tried to run some diagnostic on why it over heated and why we had such a substantial power loss. I quickly grabbed the carb cleaner to check for a vacuum leak and what do ya know! The car has a MASSIVE vacuum leak. I suspected this to be the root cause of the power loss from the beginning but my Grandpa down played the fact that one of the nuts weren't apply any pressure on the manifold. I warned him before we left that the missing washer is a big deal and could cause us to break down but he didn't believe me! I gave him a big I TOLD U SO when we got home! The radiator seems to be in excellent shape and seemed to keep the engine temperature at normal operating temperatures when we drove the car up and down the neighborhood and at a high idle for 15+ minutes so we don't believe that the cooling system is failing us.

What a heck of a day!!! This experience leaves me with a quite a few questions...
1.) What could be done to resolve the clutch chatter?
2.) What could be causing the front end to shake like crazy and how could this be resolved?
3.) What could be causing the rear tires to wobble and how can this be resolved?
4.) A vacuum leak can clearly cause improper performance but can this cause the engine to run hotter than usual and cause it to over heat?

Here's a picture of it stranded on the side of the road...

[Tom Wesenberg]

Late timing will cause overheating and loss of power.

Check the tow-in, as that can be one cause of the death wobble.

Fix your vacuum leaks and any gas leaks.

[Jim/GA]

Wow! What a great "first drive story"! You will remember that one and be telling it for the rest of your life!

Clutch chatter can be from oil on the clutch disk, problem with the flywheel, broken springs on the pressure plate... the list goes on. The only way to know for sure is to open it up and see what you find.

The front end shaking (a.k.a. the death wobble) is usually caused by worn parts, but could just need a good alignment. There was a really good article in a recent edition of The Restorer -- the national magazine of MAFCA -- about this (causes and cures). That's a good place to start.

Rear tire/wheel would wobble because a) it is bent; b) lug nuts are not tight; c) bent axle; or d) drum not on axle properly.

Yes, a severe vacuum leak will cause the engine to run really lean and that will cause it to overheat. However, I suspect your radiator is plugged up or otherwise not cooling properly. Not having the timing advanced enough will also cause it to over heat. Where did you guys drive with the spark lever at? Did you check the timing before driving?

Everything you have experienced is quite fixable, so have fun with it and report back what you find. Most of all, have fun!
.

[DJ S]

The spark lever was a little over half the way pulled down and no, we didn't check the timing and that has been added to our list of what to do.

We will check the timing and address the vacuum leak when we feel ambitious again (next weekend). With these improvements, we'll take it out for another drive. If we over heat again, we'll pull the radiator and have it sent to a reputable radiator shop where it will be cleaned out. While the radiator gets cleaned, we'll clean the block using a vinegar solution or just push all games aside and pull the head so we can scrape all the junk out of the water jackets in the head and block.

[C26Pinelake]

Timing would indeed be a great place to start and please look after that gas leak! Wayne

[H. L. Chauvin]

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Sounds like you just received a most detailed experience in what can go wrong with an 80+ year old car.

Please do not feel alone ...... we "all" started from scratch and had to learn the most simple basics as to what makes cars function both electrically and mechanically.

It is never just good enough to learn what works ...... true wisdom comes when one finds out what does not work ..... sounds like you are headed in the right direction.

Your not being afraid to try something is greatly admired ..... one never forgets experiences ..... whether good or bad.

Keep in touch ..... many here willing to assist.

[Big hammer]

All in all sounds like you all had a great day. Problems with you A will get resolved.
You have a plan to fix it, one problem at a time. Exciting day with grandpa you'll never forget.

[burner31]

Wow, what a great experience, maybe not on the day it happened, but in 20 - 30 years it could be a grand Grandpa story.
Others have covered most every problem you listed, I would add lube every fitting, grease every bearing.

I had my windshield covered in hot liquid the other day also, and stranded me on the side of the road (my 1st breakdown) Mama said the radiator cap did not look like it was on all the way, I told her it looked fine, not two minutes later it flew off and the hot water came gushing after it (thank God for windshields)
Never did find that damn cap, my Son brought me the spare and some water.

Moral of story...Also check the little things
And listen to Mama

[C26Pinelake]

A day with grandpa you will never forget ! Many people don't have that luxury!
Wayne

[Chris in CT]

Hi DJ,

All above are very good suggestions. One thing though, about your death wobble - it is crucially important to fix this for safe driving.
Put the front axle of the car up on jack-stands. Get your Grandad to grab the front wheels and wiggle them back and forth. You get underneath the car and find out where the lost motion in the steering system is located while your grandad is simulating the death wobble. I'll bet you a nickle that the steering box is loose on the frame... Good Luck and Happy Motoring!

[clo2jim]

I was on a car tour in the summer of 2012 with 4 other Model A's from Pictou, NS to Fredricton, NB. The fellow in the Coupe lost his rad cap when he and another stopped, they eventually lucked out and found it on the running board.

Earlier on the tour a few days before, I was following him and he pulled over to tighten the rad cap.

This year while on a tour, my rad cap didn't look right and I stopped to tighten it.
You never know

[MrBruce]

Wow, that's a great way to start your Model A adventure. I would suggest looking for a MARC or MAFCA club in your area. I noticed MARC has five clubs in MA. You will find a wealth of info from club members who are always willing to help the new arrivals. Great fun with your Grampa also. My Grampa drove Model A's when he was growing up and didn't want anything to do with them when I first got interested.

[marc hildebrant]

I would check the ignition timing as it sure sounds like retarded timing.

Marc

[1crosscut]

Don't be overly quick on pulling the radiator out or to treat with vinegar.
First read up on how to properly set your timing and get that correct. Many, many over heating problems are caused by timing not being set properly.
Myself I am not a fan of the vinegar treatment. To me it seems that it has the potential to break a lot of rust free causing it to migrate into your radiator making matters worse. (just my opinion)
If setting the timing doesn't help with the over heating and you do pull the radiator try cleaning it with undiluted Simple Green. Plug the lower outlet and the over flow tube and put in 1 gallon of the Simple Green. Put the radiator cap back on and invert the radiator several times. Walk away and let it soak for a while. Do this several times a day for a few days before dumping it out. I think you could be quite surprised on just how much crud comes out. Often there is a lot of grease inside a radiator from overzealous use of a grease gun on the water pump.

Chris in CT has suggested a good way to look for looseness in the steering assembly by having your Grandfather move the wheel back and forth. The only thing I would do differently would be to leave the front wheels on the ground while doing it.

If you still have the loss of power and back fire issues after fixing the intake manifold leak take a look at the flexible wire under the movable plate in the distributor. The wire could be bad and and or shorting out. Also check to be sure your points are set correctly. If the have closed up it can cause some of your symptoms.

It might be a good idea to re-check the torque on your head. Having it spew coolant out when going up hills make me think that you could be pushing combustion gases into the cooling system under the added load of going up hill.

Aren't these old cars fun!!!

[Jim/GA]

Good advice about joining a local club. Lots of helpful people there. We help out new members in our club all the time. And they will have activities planned that give you guys an excuse to go drive the car somewhere (as if you need an excuse!).

Here's a Model A club right in your city (I don't know how active they are):
Connecticut Valley Working A's
166 Feeding Hills Road
Southwick MA 01077

Meets on Wednesdays
Contact: 413-569-3090

Have fun!
.

[DJ S]

Originally Posted by Jim/TX/GA

Good advice about joining a local club. Lots of helpful people there. We help out new members in our club all the time. And they will have activities planned that give you guys an excuse to go drive the car somewhere (as if you need an excuse!).

Here's a Model A club right in your city (I don't know how active they are):
Connecticut Valley Working A's
166 Feeding Hills Road
Southwick MA 01077

Meets on Wednesdays
Contact: 413-569-3090

Have fun!
.

I'm already a member of this club and as you can see it's right in my town! I can't wait to see the look on their faces when i give them my report!

[modelAtony]

One easy thing to check when you have front end wobble . Check the front end wheel nut , make sure you have proper applied wheel bearing grease and adjust the nut . Many times the nut is not tight enough and will cause front end wobble usually really noticed when coming to stop sign. Have fun modelAtony tony white Lafayette, LA

[john charlton]

Front end shimmy can also be caused by the front wheels being out of balance . It is easy to balance 19" wheels as the lead balance weights just clip on the rim . If you think they are unsightly clip them on the inside of the rim . Some tyre shops cant balance these wheels so try it yourself . Jack up the front and sptn the wheels you might be surprised how far out they are . Most tyre shops will give you a handfull of weights for free . Also check wheel bearing adjustment . Should have slight rock at the rim , not too tight or you will cook the bearings .

John in no weather today Suffolk County England .

[40 Deluxe]

Don't say "Failure"! Say, "School is in session. Lessons are being given!" Every Model A owner/driver has attended many sessions in this school and no one has ever graduated!

[CWPASADENA]

The first time you drive an old car that you have been fixing will usually uncover problems that you did not expect. Each time you fix a few more things, your drives will get better and better and then one day you will realize this is getting to be a good car.

We do not consider your experience a failure at all. After all, you learned a lot. You learned what went right and the areas that need a little more attention. Your experience with your Grandfather is PRICELESS.

Very good suggestions have been posted by others. You may also want to refer to Les Andrews' books. I feel they have a world of knowledge.

One comment on the front end wobble, also check the tie rod and drag link ends for wear and be sure the springs properly preloaded and the plugs tight. Check toe-in AFTER you make any repair or adjustments to the tie rod ends.

When you finally have the car running well and reliable, you will have a great advantage over a lot of Model A Owners. If you do have a brake down (and we all have) you will know how to fix it. A lot of owners do not know the cars very well and have to rely on others to keep their cars running.

Keep at it and soon you will have a car that will be reliable and you can enjoy.

Keep us posted as to your progress.

Chris W.