Antifreeze alternatives

[bluesman31]

Anyone use non antifreeze coolant alternatives.

I am considering using a corrosion preventative for the summer, anyone use one and have good results?

[Duffy1]

I use one made by Gunk ( anti-rust and water pump lube ). Bars also makes one .

[Bob/Kansas City]

A good 50 - 50 mix of antifreeze like Prestone will give you good corrosion protection unless for some reason you don't want to use antifreeze.

[Patrick L.]

I use distilled water and rust inhibitor. I didn't want to believe the 'old-timers' and used 50/50 coolant like most folks on all my seasonal stuff. That works until some of it enters the base. So, I play it safe. Besides the straight water cools better than the coolant mix and the 'innerds' seem to stay clean with enough inhibitor.

[msmaron]

Originally Posted by Patrick L.

I use distilled water and rust inhibitor.

Period done!! in winter 50/50 if you drive

[bhiland]

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Originally Posted by msmaron

Period done!! in winter 50/50 if you drive

Agreed water and water wetter or rust inhibitor. I run water with kool-it. Its like water wetter with inhibitor in it.

[wensum]

I run Red Line water wetter and as advertised, it appears to help make the engine run cooler

[29er]

So you guys running water and Water Wetter (WW) only, do you find the WW is sufficient by itself as a rust-inhibitor? Anybody use WW PLUS another rust inhibitor with water?

[Duffy1]

29 er .
If you do a search you will find a lot of info on this subject plus pros and cons of Water Wetter.

[Rich in Tucson]

Here in Tucson, AZ the local belief seems to be that there is no need for antifreeze (although three consecutive nights of 18° in January of 2012 and a late freeze this year did wake up some folks), and water is a better coolant than anything else, so why dilute the water (or more likely, pay for more than water)? Corrosion protection is rarely if ever given a thought and bright orange coolant due to iron oxide is considered normal.

As a result, I have never seen or heard of a greater number of freeze-cracked blocks and heads nor of a greater number of rusted through (from the inside) blocks and heads as exists here due to this local superstition. "Rust free" maybe a popular description of the exterior of cars from the southwest but "heart failure" may be a more honest description of the water-cooled passages of many engines here. Soluble oil as a rust-preventative ought to be called "gullible-oil" if we had real truth in advertising.

In my opinion, there is no better corrosion protection (for the dollar) than that provided by 50:50 antifreeze:water (ethylene glycol or propylene glycol). If you are contemplating using a "corrosion preventative" for the summer to paper over a summer overheating problem, than I would recommend fixing the real problem, your inadequate radiator.

An alternative maybe waterless coolants (no water, no corrosion) which are typically an expensive blend of ethylene glycol and propylene glycol (with proprietary buffers and corrosion inhibitors) however I am unaware of any info regarding their coolant efficiency and use in non-pressurized systems.

I would be happy to contemplate empirical data for the long-term superiority of non-glycol based corrosion preventatives (cost and effect) because I want to preserve my property and a piece of history but all I have ever seen are anecdotes and advertising, not data derived using the scientific method. I am not from Missouri but I am a scientist, so show me.

[hefty lefty]

Originally Posted by Rich in Tucson

Here in Tucson, AZ the local belief seems to be that there is no need for antifreeze (although three consecutive nights of 18° in January of 2012 and a late freeze this year did wake up some folks), and water is a better coolant than anything else, so why dilute the water (or more likely, pay for more than water)? Corrosion protection is rarely if ever given a thought and bright orange coolant due to iron oxide is considered normal.

As a result, I have never seen or heard of a greater number of freeze-cracked blocks and heads nor of a greater number of rusted through (from the inside) blocks and heads as exists here due to this local superstition. "Rust free" maybe a popular description of the exterior of cars from the southwest but "heart failure" may be a more honest description of the water-cooled passages of many engines here. Soluble oil as a rust-preventative ought to be called "gullible-oil" if we had real truth in advertising.

In my opinion, there is no better corrosion protection (for the dollar) than that provided by 50:50 antifreeze:water (ethylene glycol or propylene glycol). If you are contemplating using a "corrosion preventative" for the summer to paper over a summer overheating problem, than I would recommend fixing the real problem, your inadequate radiator.

An alternative maybe waterless coolants (no water, no corrosion) which are typically an expensive blend of ethylene glycol and propylene glycol (with proprietary buffers and corrosion inhibitors) however I am unaware of any info regarding their coolant efficiency and use in non-pressurized systems.

I would be happy to contemplate empirical data for the long-term superiority of non-glycol based corrosion preventatives (cost and effect) because I want to preserve my property and a piece of history but all I have ever seen are anecdotes and advertising, not data derived using the scientific method. I am not from Missouri but I am a scientist, so show me.

The railroad runs straight water in their EMD and GE engines. They also idle engines for days or weeks on end and have an automatic water dump valve if the water gets to 36 F. or so. Yet every year at least one freeze occurs doing substantial damage or a total writeoff of a six figure plus prime mover.

In the EMDs there is some reason for this as the coolant leaks into the oil no matter what. In the GEs that doesn't happen (one of the only good things to be said about this engine) but the railroad feels that a barrel or two of glycol is too expensive insurance.

When you consider the cost of a gallon of glycol vs. an engine block it's a no brainer. Even less than 50/50 will still stop a destructive freeze. Water is one of the very few liquids that expand instead of contracting when they freeze.

Back in the day they used methanol. That's cheaper, but mildly corrosive to iron (and quite corrosive to aluminum).

[Lycoming-8]

Back in the days when I used the 1929 as a daily driver, I used an industrial blend of methanol, isopropanol, and propanol. It was available at the plant where I worked for $0.50 per gallon. We added a rust inhibitor of some sort and never had any problems until the day in mid spring that the 'A' would start to boil coming up the long hill to one of the northern Cincy suburbs. This routine was repeated every year that I drove the car, along with occasional checks of the coolant freeze point in a local lab (by me).

So non-glycol options are out there, if you are willing to experiment and have the facilities to verify protection levels.

Good lead-in Lefty !!

[john in illinois]

I used distilled water and Redline Water Wetter with no antifreeze one summer when I traveled to Vicksburg. Temps were high 90's and it ran cool.

I pulled the head the next winter and the engine and head was full of rust.
Had to clean it with oxalic acid. Water Wetter seemed to have no corrosion control in my engine.

I never get much rust with antifreeze.

John

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by Duffy1

I use one made by Gunk ( anti-rust and water pump lube ). Bars also makes one .

That's mine as well but it don't often freeze in South Florida.

[Purdy Swoft]

I run water with water pump lubricant. I have no problems with rust or cooling. When I used the coupe year round, I had to use antifreeze in winter and it was a REAL pia .

[hefty lefty]

Originally Posted by Lycoming-8

Back in the days when I used the 1929 as a daily driver, I used an industrial blend of methanol, isopropanol, and propanol. It was available at the plant where I worked for $0.50 per gallon. We added a rust inhibitor of some sort and never had any problems until the day in mid spring that the 'A' would start to boil coming up the long hill to one of the northern Cincy suburbs. This routine was repeated every year that I drove the car, along with occasional checks of the coolant freeze point in a local lab (by me).

Fifty cents! When was that and what were the proportions, roughly?

We have a couple of the survivalist crank types at the place I work sometimes as a fill in. They are blabbering about how they can make methanol on the cheap (they can make ethanol too, and I suspect they do, but it's worth more as moonshine than fuel!) but I don't see how you really could make it for even the price of gasoline. If you could buy woody-juice at fifty cents a gallon today it would be worth converting a car to burn it!

You can't buy distilled water that cheap.

[Lycoming-8]

The time frame was the early 60's, which certainly explains the price. The alcohol mix was used as a solvent in the plant; and since it was a proprietary mix, I never really knew the proportions. Sure worked great though.

[rons49]

I too live in Az and run straight water + anti rust + water wetter, but, I change my mixture every 12-18 months. Years ago I found that "anti freeze/coolant tended to foam at 50/50, similar to too much detergent in a washing machine. This would cause some overflow out the tube & cap. Now since I have a new radiator I just stayed with the water mix and see no reason.to tempt fate. I have no evidence of rust. Anti-rust when used correctly should eliminate that issue. BUT, different circumstances if the car is in cold winter temps. Also my garage is attached to my home & the temps never go lower then 38, even after last winters freeze. By 10 am the temps were above freezing so a local drive was possible. I do not do this in my pressurized Hudson & Cadillac. They get 1 gallon glycol + the anti-rust and WW.