A disapointed customerr

[Charlie ny]

Not my best day or week. I rebuilt a '37-'41 distributor and shipped it out
and got it back a few days later....improper install....probably the tang out of position, not pretty. The customer very upset that I did not detail the installation procedure. Many many jobs go thru my shop every week and
anyone who has called and requested advice can attest to the time I take
answering questions. Wished he would have called, not a cheap fix.
Charlie ny

[scicala]

Don't let it get you down Charlie. If someone is unsure of how to do something, they should research it or ask for info. Your reputation is impecable.
If he's mad at you, it's because he's just trying to shun the blame to someone else.

Just my opinion.

Sal

[Mart]

It is not your responsibility to explain how to fit it.
It's very unfair to heap that on you.

I'll not say any more.

Mart.

[tubman]

I agree with the above 100%.

Some people can break an anvil with a rubber hammer.

[36coupe]

I hope the person in question reads this thread. He will not harm your reputation only his own.

[Steve in Denver]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Charlie, I have one of your Chevrolet Distributors I am about to install in my 8BA, I would appreciate a refresher course on proper installation and the type of coil you recommend.

[Willit Stop]

....gotta' be smarter than the distributor.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by Willit Stop

....gotta' be smarter than the distributor.

Yep.

Charlie, I didn't realize you were in the business of providing installation instruction seminars.
Ya do know, I trust, that the customer is NOT always correct.

Me? I am not as nice of a guy as you. I'd ask him if he would like to purchase another distributor. I may, just may, offer a little discount. Still, i would not eat this one. It's on him.

[KiWinUS]

Originally Posted by Kube

Yep.

Charlie, I didn't realize you were in the business of providing installation instruction seminars.
Ya do know, I trust, that the customer is NOT always correct.

Me? I am not as nice of a guy as you. I'd ask him if he would like to purchase another distributor. I may, just may, offer a little discount. Still, i would not eat this one. It's on him.

100% Agee with Kube. The installers error should not cost you. Period!!!

[rockfla]

I agree with Tony & Mike.......Especially since the customer took it off (or a representative of). Good on you for doing what you are doing!!!


MOST of all, thank you for what you do for ALL of Us here on the barn!!!!

[1942deluxe]

Charlie, do you need a core? I have a 1940 one sitting in my store room. Almost brought it to you when we came up to get my transmission.

[Krylon32]

Charlie: I have been selling my Flathead to T5 transmission kit since the mid 90's and always include instructions. I am always amazed with the phone calls I get because the customer did not follow or even read the instructions. Keep your chin up.

[enginepieces]

Once it leaves your hands it is not your reasonably. I would cringe some times when i would hand a costumer a crankshaft and bearings knowing they did not have the knowledge to install it. The internet has helped with information and videos. Keep up the good work. 10% of your costumers cause 90% of your trouble.

[cas3]

Sounds like a person who failed the square peg in the round hole test

[supereal]

It is very important to understand that the drive tang on the distributor is offset to match the slot in the front of the cam shaft. This is supposed to prevent incorrect installment.
When installing any "bolt on" part, try to insert and turn the mounting bolts before using a wrench. At our shop too often we see such things as bent valves from wrong installation, even when we carefully instruct the person who is doing the job themself.

[Tim Ayers]

Charlie,

I agree with the gang. Not your fault or responsibility. Understandably, you need to do what will make you sleep easy at night, so good luck.

Tim

[19Fordy]

Reminds me of the person who bought a rebuilt engine and failed to install it properly causing it to break. Then he blamed the engine builder.

[nickthebandit]

Charlie, just remember, you can't fix stupid. Read the instructions, and, or, ask questions. It saves a lot of grief later on. Since this is not your fault, put this person at the end of the line.

[Holeshot]

Originally Posted by tubman

Some people can break an anvil with a rubber hammer.

How?

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by Holeshot

How?

If your question is actually serious, I'd worry that you may just be a candidate. DD

.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN

If your question is actually serious, I'd worry that you may just be a candidate. DD

.

Oh my... laughing my a-- off!

[DavidG]

Charlie,


If it is indeed an attempted installation with the tang improperly aligned, I'd have to conclude that you customer should not be in possession of anything mechanical as the distributor installation setiup on a stock flathead engine is about as elemental as knowing which way to turn a faucet handle to draw water.

[A bones]

unanimous : We all vote for Charlie

[bobH]

Wait a minute here... I got an anvil to break... need instructions !!!

[Frank Miller]

Let the first one who has not broken something by doing something stupid, raise their hand. The customer made a mistake that will make him a better mechanic by know how to fit stuff and not force it. Charlie may cut him a break on the fix but this guy got a free lesson in basic mechanics.
I was installing a thermostat housing and made sure it was flat against the head before tightening. Yes, I learned about that many decades ago by breaking one.
Like I say, If you pleased 80% of the people you've done 100% of the job. Charlie and a few others here are in the high 90s.

[Jack E/NJ]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

How? I believe a #8 blasting cap is carefully positioned atop the anvil. Then whacked with a rubber mallet.

[Ol' Ron]

Everybody has a stupid factor, mine runs at about 2 or 4 most of the time, but every oncein a while I hit the big 10. Recently I got some medication to help clear my throght. The bottle said spray into your nose. But it's in a glass bottle, and I can't squeezer it. Now my daughter, looked at me and said, "Just push the top down".
Pobody iz nerfect"
Gramps

[fordv8j]

I had changed distributors on our 38 coupe many times, knew how it went, one day had a b---n f, did it wrong..wasn't pretty

[VeryTangled]

Hi Everyone, Charlie I'm pleaed you have us to listen to your recent experience. Talking/writing it out helps to let it go.

It's okay to 'fire' a customer.

And it's okay to tell them it's not your responsibility to fix a clear screw-up on their part.

When I've broken something due to my own actions, I get doubly disturbed. This is may be partly where the customer's attitude was coming from.

But if the failure is a broken ear on a helmet distributor... That's one of the oldest goofs in the old Ford book.

"It appears you didn't understand what you needed to do and you broke it" wraps that case up!

We need to feel sorry for the customer but playing with old cars is a big-boy sport and sometimes it involves disappointments and broken knuckles. It's part of the game that mistakes can cost cash you hadn't anticipated spending.

You helped them in a way you can live with, but I'm guessing that cost you some money to it.

That's not right. But it also shows the world how you run your shop!

As humans we seem to absorb negative feedback over positive. This makes experiences like yours hurt and stick with us much longer than they should. We're spending time thinking about this d-bag instead of enjoying life.

Maybe you can recognize this and our comments help brush it off. Next week will be better!

Thanks for being a such a valued businessman and top-notch 'Barn'er Charlie Schwendler!

[Jack E/NJ]

>>>But if the failure is a broken ear on a helmet distributor... That's one of the oldest goofs in the old Ford book.>>>


If it's only one ear, JBWeld to the rescure. Pile it on thick. Maybe smooth & contour it with a putty knife so no one will notice. Then try to hide it with a spray can of Walmart's best ColorPlace aluminium paint. Don't tighten that earbolt too much. Then it'll be almost good to go. And it might. 8^)

[flatford8]

Don’t take this one all on yourself bud.....you have to have at least a minimum of mechanical knowledge or common sense to change a flat tire.......Mark

[ford38v8]

Originally Posted by Ol' Ron

Everybody has a stupid factor, mine runs at about 2 or 4 most of the time, but every oncein a while I hit the big 10. Recently I got some medication to help clear my throght. The bottle said spray into your nose. But it's in a glass bottle, and I can't squeezer it. Now my daughter, looked at me and said, "Just push the top down".
Pobody iz nerfect"
Gramps

Finally, I get to tell of my father’s claim to fame in that category. He had an open sore on his right elbow, and an open bottle of iodine in his right hand, the applicator in the left. Up goes his arm, elbow bent… you know the rest!

[VeryTangled]

For future reference to folks.

I was just catching up with Mart and his Pendine Prep series. This one is video #7. Between 21:30 and 23:00 you get an excellent visual description of him fitting a distributor tang into the slot in the end of the camshaft. First pic is the wrong way, second is when the tang dropped into the slot.

Maybe it will help someone else.

Nice job Mart!

the video: https://youtu.be/Ydy38R7EPL8

Mart's thread about the video: https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=311700

Mart's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzc...Vro40j-vjjZShg

[RKS.PA]

Charlie, knowing you, this is bothering you a lot. As you can see from the posts here, 100% of us say you did absolutely nothing wrong, just your laser focused customer service.


Having installed a distributor the "wrong" way because the tang was worn enough to let is slip in, all I got was timing 180 out and no damage....but lesson learned....fortunately years ago.


So, take all the support given here and feel good about the job you did!!!...not your fault.

[Jack E/NJ]

>>>Having installed a distributor the "wrong" way because the tang was worn enough to let is slip in, all I got was timing 180 out and no damage....but lesson learned....fortunately years ago.>>>


IMO, the hardly noticeable offset was one of Ford's lousier ideas to avoid being 180° out. It woulda been better to risk being 180° out with no offset.

[ford38v8]

Originally Posted by Jack E/NJ

>>>Having installed a distributor the "wrong" way because the tang was worn enough to let is slip in, all I got was timing 180 out and no damage....but lesson learned....fortunately years ago.>>>


IMO, the hardly noticeable offset was one of Ford's lousier ideas to avoid being 180° out. It woulda been better to risk being 180° out with no offset.

Jack,


Off subject... Your avatar... Try to follow the firing rotation with your eyes, You see only three detonations per revolution, advancing by one cylinder per revolution. Similar to watching the prop on a plane in a movie! Stranger than fiction!

[Scott52]

You guys are scaring me! I don't want to be bad customer number 2. I bought the modified distributor in June of 2020. My engine block went to the machine shop about that same time. I just got the engine block back ready to assemble. That's 21 months later. The engine builder got very ill and there were times I wasn't sure he was going to finish it or if I would even get it back. I'm sure it was harder on him than me and I just figured his health was more important than my block. So challenge number 1. Is the new distributor where I thought I put it. Yes is was! I looked at it because I wasn't sure what tang was being talked about. While I was in the garage, Some one posted some right and wrong photos. Ive installed distributors in Dodge Flatheads and Chevy small blocks. Seemed not to be a big deal. But this is my first Ford Flathead. There are a couple of photos provided by Charley in the box and I hope the other guy who wanted a refresher course gets his wish. I would like that too. I've been very frustrated today with not finding things I had a little earlier in the day. My RV keys disappeared right after I moved the RV, my 97 year old mother in law moved them to a different spot on the counter. Couldn't find my sunglasses that were on my desk. I found them on my desk. An interior rack I built for the RV was removed by me when I let one of my kids use the RV. Looked all over and haven't found it yet. So finding the distributor on the shelf where I put it 21 months ago felt like I hadn't completely lost my marbles.

[Tinker]

Originally Posted by ford38v8

Finally, I get to tell of my father’s claim to fame in that category. He had an open sore on his right elbow, and an open bottle of iodine in his right hand, the applicator in the left. Up goes his arm, elbow bent… you know the rest!

Maybe a lite hearted story along the same line.


My grandmother had knee issues. So one night she was rubbing some bengay on her knee like most nights. After about 20 minutes she thought, well this isn't doing anything. To which she looked at the bottle she was using and realized it was actually a bottle of elmer's glue. She laughed, and took the next 30 minutes pealing glue from her knee.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by ford38v8

Off subject... Your avatar... Try to follow the firing rotation with your eyes, You see only three detonations per revolution, advancing by one cylinder per revolution. Similar to watching the prop on a plane in a movie! Stranger than fiction!

Alan ....That's not strange & not fiction, because what Jack's avatar is doing is actually correct and true. It represents a 5-cylinder RADIAL engine. You must realize that virtually all AMERICAN 5-cylinder radials turn in a clockwise direction when viewed from the rear (non-propeller end), as Jack's engine does.
You should also remember that almost all radial engines are 4-stroke, and that each cylinder fires once every SECOND cycle.





With radial engines, the TOP cylinder in the front row (or ONLY row) is always #1. The cylinders are numbered sequentially in the direction of rotation. With Jack's 5-cylinder example, the firing ORDER would be #1, 3, 5, 2, 4. Looking at Jack's engine from the REAR, the cylinders fire in a clockwise direction, once every other cylinder, with two complete rotations.

If you didn't realize it, all radial engines have an ODD number of cylinders on EACH ROW of cylinders. Can anyone explain WHY radial engines have an ODD number of cylinders per row? The answer should be easy to figure using the two examples below! ALAN ("ford38V8") will owe you a free chicken dinner for the first CORRECT answer. DD





.

[ford38v8]

Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN

Alan ....That's not strange & not fiction, because what Jack's avatar is doing is actually correct and true. It represents a 5-cylinder RADIAL engine. You must realize that virtually all AMERICAN 5-cylinder radials turn in a clockwise direction when viewed from the rear (non-propeller end), as Jack's engine does.
You should also remember that almost all radial engines are 4-stroke, and that each cylinder fires once every SECOND cycle.





With radial engines, the TOP cylinder in the front row (or ONLY row) is always #1. The cylinders are numbered sequentially in the direction of rotation. With Jack's 5-cylinder example, the firing ORDER would be #1, 3, 5, 2, 4. Looking at Jack's engine from the REAR, the cylinders fire in a clockwise direction, once every other cylinder, with two complete rotations.

If you didn't realize it, all radial engines have an ODD number of cylinders on EACH ROW of cylinders. Can anyone explain WHY radial engines have an ODD number of cylinders per row? The answer should be easy to figure using the two examples below! ALAN ("ford38V8") will owe you a free chicken dinner for the first CORRECT answer. DD


.

Well son if a gun, my eyes weren’t playing tricks on me after all! It didn’t occur to me to consider the firing order! Coop, you get the chicken dinner ’cause your head is in the clouds unlike clouds in my head! Oh, the odd number of cilynders? Would that be to defeat any set of symbiotic vibrations that would occur with even numbered cylinders? (Poor wording, I know.)

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by ford38v8

Well son if a gun, my eyes weren’t playing tricks on me after all! It didn’t occur to me to consider the firing order! Coop, you get the chicken dinner ’cause your head is in the clouds unlike clouds in my head! Oh, the odd number of cilynders? Would that be to defeat any set of symbiotic vibrations that would occur with even numbered cylinders? (Poor wording, I know.)

Alan .....OK, this ought to let YOU off the hook for the chicken dinner, since you seem serious about wanting to understand. Keep in mind that the ODD number of cylinders has everything to do with FIRING ORDER. You have already looked at this simple firing order on the 5-cylinder radial engine.





On the 5-cylinder engine, #1 fires, skip ONE cylinder and #3 fires. Then we skip a cylinder and #5 fires. Then we skip #1, and #2 fires. Then we skip #3 and #4 fires. After #4-cylinder fires, the next in line to fire would be #1 since the order skips ONE cylinder (#5) before firing again. So let's add a #6-cylinder. It may help to sketch this out. Keep this 'new' engine configuration with #1 at the top. Looking from the rear of the engine, the firing order will rotate clockwise, skipping ONE cylinder every time before the next cylinder fires. So, with 6-cylinders, the first cylinder to fire would be #1. After skipping #2, #3 would fire. The next cylinder to fire in the sequence would be #5-cylinder since we skip ONE cylinder every firing. Remembering that we now need to skip a cylinder (#6), which would put us back at #1-firing....NOT #2-cylinder as it previously would have been with the ODD-NUMBERED 5-cylinder engine. The firing orders with EVEN NUMBERS of cylinders just will not work-out in "happy" fashion, no matter how many EVEN-numbered cylinders you have. Gotta be ODD numbers! Coop

.

.

[1934]

Don't let it bother you Charlie. We all know what a standup guy you are and what great work you do!
Doug.

[burnette]

i know how you feel, been in busness all my life ! nothing crazyer than people !!!
its not your fault .

[Jeff/Illinois]

Charlie the fault is on this goofus not you.

Ford made it pretty straight forward how to CORRECTLY install these distributors the RIGHT way it's called Common Sense. You do it be 'feel' lining up the tang and then turning the body to line up the mounting holes. I don't know how much simpler Henry could have designed that. You take your time and don't heavy hand it. Go slow.

I'm no Flathead expert, I spent 50 years around Model A's, but I figured it out on our '36 PU with a 59AB Flattie without a lot of difficulty.

No Charlie, here it is a simple case of 'A chicken has a brain the size of a pea yet IT knows to come in out of the rain'. This guy is farther down the food chain than a chicken

Your work is impeccable and we all know it. Thank you for what you do.

[Bored&Stroked]

Originally Posted by Jack E/NJ

>>>Having installed a distributor the "wrong" way because the tang was worn enough to let is slip in, all I got was timing 180 out and no damage....but lesson learned....fortunately years ago.>>>


IMO, the hardly noticeable offset was one of Ford's lousier ideas to avoid being 180° out. It woulda been better to risk being 180° out with no offset.

Or maybe just something simple like a keyed shaft. The offset is only 1/16 of an inch - pretty easy to screw that up (especially if the engine is still in the car). The good news - you usually only make that mistake once . . . usually!

[Sal]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

He should not have tried to force it in place, by running the bolts down without the distributor seating where it belonged. If you repair a part for someone and they don't install it correctly it is not your fault. He should have spoken to a knowable person about installing it.

[fortyfords]

No matter what kind of business you are in, there are those who screw up and want the business owner to eat the job or unhappy with your work so they can get a free job.

[AnthonyG]

Hope ur customer is on the Barn & reads all the good testimonies about you, your rebuilt parts & Cudo’s in general! I for one compliment your work & help you offer politely taking the time required to assist. I’m sure many others feel the same!

[oldandtired]

I obviously have too much time on my hands. Since I read the question about how to break an anvil with a rubber hammer, I have been trying to think of a way to do it.

[Karl]

I admit I've installed a distributor on my 1934 with the tang round the wrong way
And yes cracked the body. My own Dumb fault - Don't blame any one but me . Not quite as easy as it sounds reaching down between the block and the radiator Trying to hold the distributor in place and trying to feel the tang is properly located. What I do now is use some carb mounting studs loosely screwed into the distributor bolt holes - when the tang is correctly position the body slams up tight against the block and then I replace the studs with bolts. You live and learn -Karl

[GB SISSON]

Back in the pre-internet dawn of time I read every single book on flathead v8s. Even then there were many readily available lessons in how to get that tang aligned the correct way and avoid the dreaded Broken Ear.

[Jack E/NJ]

OAT>>>Since I read the question about how to break an anvil with a rubber hammer, I have been trying to think of a way to do it.>>>


You don't have to think about it any more. Found the answer right here on the barn.

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showp...1&postcount=26

[Robz51]

I recently installed a loadamatic you rebuilt in my merc. I used the MANuAL to install it and it worke great!
Rob

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[Rodrelic]

I have a bushel of dist, crab and helmet. If someone needs a housing I can provide

[AroundTheBlockEngines]

As mentioned many times over, Charlie's service and advice has always been very appreciated over here! Any customer I send his way always returns with rave reviews as well.

[Rsb43]

Your reputation is far superior than that of someone who may try and slander. New to the “old Ford v8” obsession, and your name is mentioned as one of the best by everyone I’ve spoken with.

[fordv8j]

an adult shouldsay oops I goofed and bear the cost himself; n0t expect someone else to pay for his mistakes, I did the same thing, but I didn't expect the builder to bear the cost, not his fault