Redoing my hydrostatic fuel gauge with new red liquid

[JimG]

I had redone my hydrostatic fuel gauge on my 34 in 2017, using red fluid from Classic and Exotic. In a few years, the red color faded even though the car is always kept in a garage, and I also had some white deposits showing up in the gauge, so I decided it was time to redo it. I thought I would post my experiences to help anyone else who wants to do this.

I bought two vials of red liquid from another source last year. I don't remember who I got it from, it seemed like he was a private individual that I may have read about on the barn or some other website like a Packard site. He claimed to have liquid that would not fade, and had only a few vials left. It was a good thing I bought two vials, as by the time they arrived, they had leaked inside the box on shipping so each was only about half full.

When I redid the gauge in 2017, I had soaked it in rust 911 and then painted the rusty inside of the gauge, so it was still in pretty good shape. The first time I did the gauge, it would only come up to about 5/8 to 1/2 when it was full. Went pretty much to empty when empty.

Cleaning up the gauge, I found the tube was dirty and the reservoir had some white powdery stuff in it. I use some brushes in a kit I had on hand from Harbor freight to clean these. The smallest brush fit perfectly in the glass tube and the next side up fit the gauge reservoir. I put a small piece of white cardboard behind the glass tube - just like it had when I originally disassembled it. I used a small piece of teflon tape on the threads of the reservoir.

I had read about how to adjust the level in this thread:

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...ht=hydrostatic

It said that to adjust the level, you add rods to the reservoir of the gauge - I believe this is to reduce the volume of the liquid in the gauge, so the pressure from the tank has less fluid to support and and this raises the liquid level. No one seemed to be very precise about how much to add, although the reference thread has some calculations. My gauge had one rod in it that was stuck inside. It also had a lot of white powdery residue in the reservoir. I soaked the gauge in lime away for a while and then used a small screw to grab the rod and pull it out. Once I had the rod out, I cleaned the rod up with steel wool and found it was brass, and about the diameter of a 12 ga wire. Since that rod only got the gauge up to half way when full, I bought a 1/8" diameter brass rod at Lowes ($3.80 for a 3 ft piece) and installed the gauge with a 2" long piece in the reservoir. It was larger then the old rod, but not hugely larger. I set the red liquid level at empty with the 1/8" rod in place and installed the gauge. I use a syringe to put the liquid in, as this also let me withdraw liquid if I got it too high. Test drives with the tank pretty empty looked somewhat promising, although the gauge was showing about 1/4 and seemed to go up and down a lot while driving. I went to the gas station and filled the tank and that blew the fluid out of the gauge. So the 1/8" rod was too large. Lost some of my scarce fluid on that attempt.

After that, I decided I needed to be careful as I had a limited amount of red fluid and approach things sort of like a science project - one change at a time and observe results during a test drive. After removing the gauge and cleaning everything up, I reinstalled the original rod in the reservoir and reinstalled everything. This test drive had the full tank level showing at about 1/2 - which is what this rod used to show previously - so I was back to where I used to be level wise, but with new red fluid, and proved that I had repeatability from what I had done 5 years earlier.

Now realizing that these gauges seem to be pretty touchy, I decided to try adding 24 ga brass wire I had on hand, one wire at a time, and test after each installation. So I took the air line off the gauge and added one 2" long piece of 24 ga brass wire as an addition to the original brass rod. Another test drive and this time the gauge went right up to full. So this shows how touchy these gauges are. One piece of 24 ga wire was enough to raise the full level from 1/2 to full. This is the type of information I could not find in any previous threads I looked at on adjusting the level of these King-Seeley gauges.

I would also mention that the test drive doesn't need to be long - but it does help to be on a bumpy road. Just a short drive on a bumpy road seemed to be enough to get the gauge to go to it's max level.

Here are photos of the tools I used and my final gauge position during the last test drive. We will see where the level goes after I drive the car more, but this looks pretty encouraging. I have read that other people have had trouble getting their gauges to more than 1/2 or so when full, so I thought I would relate the results of my science experiment. We will also see how long my new fluid stays red.

[Lawson Cox]

1. No pix.
2. Your verbal description is lengthy and confusing, at least to this old and gradually deteriorating mind. LOL

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by Lawson Cox

1. No pix.
2. Your verbal description is lengthy and confusing, at least to this old and gradually deteriorating mind. LOL

Its not a description... Its a dissertation...

[tubman]

Hmmm. I found his description enlightening and quite clear. Although we all like pictures, the lack of them on this post did not detract from the information presented in the least.

Why so hard on a guy who is trying to share the knowledge gained from his experience?

[koates]

JimG Thanks for posting your experiences at getting your 34 fuel gauge working. I understood all your adjustments very clearly. Good stuff. Regards, Kevin.

[1934]

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Thanks for your post JimG. It's nice to know I'm not the only one who has spent a lot of time and effort trying to get the gauge working properly! I've been messing around with mine off and on for quite some time now. It now shows almost full when I fill up the tank but I don't have any more red fluid left to add. Anyway, I'm leaving it as is for now and I always set the trip odometer to 0 when I tank up and never go more than 150 miles or so before filling up again. I may try putting the small wire in the gauge as you described, sounds like a good idea!
Doug.

[totto]

JimG: I liked your info and it is detailed but very informative, THANKS. My gauge is effected by the outside temp. If I park my pickup in the Sun, the red fluid does rise a bit. As you mentioned, driving does get the gauge fluid to rise. I keep "an eye" on miles driven so I fill the tank up using that method( as does 1934).

Henry

[tomkc1]

Thanks for the information Jim. One day I'll tackle my gauge and it's reassuring to know the experience you have. I hope you can get the photos posted.
Tom

[glennpm]

Hi Jim,

Good write up and that you took the time to do it.

Regarding, " No one seemed to be very precise about how much to add, although the reference thread has some calculations"please take another look at my post #3 in the referenced thread. It explains how to calculate the volume of rod to add.

BTW, my gauge works fine on the road now. When sitting in the garage, it does not indicate the tank level , it needs to be shaken up a bit on the road as you've mentioned.

Glenn

[JimG]

I don't know why the pictures didn't upload the first time. Here is another attempt. Not very exciting, but they document what I used - which might be a help to someone else.

[deuce_roadster]

I didn't see any mention of the tank unit. I have restored many of these and with new airlines, gauges I have cleaned and restored have always been accurate. the tank unit needs to be thoroughly cleaned. There are 2 cups that catch either fuel or bubbles when the gas sloshes around in the tank and a chamber in the bottom of the tank unit. All passageways need to be clear, and I always solder up what looks like stress cracks in the 2-paper thin "catching cups, they usually have several in each. Also, don't forget that the vent for the fuel system is in the tank unit and make sure that is clear. The early cars with hydrostatic gauges had non vented gas caps. If you put one of those early caps on say a 1940 Ford, the car will quit after a few miles (don't ask me how I know this)

[Karl]

Thanks Jim -Once the hydrostatic gauges are set up they are pretty reliable.
I had a lot of trouble with mine and finally worked out that previous owners had tried to fix it by installing calibrating rods I removed 6 from my gauge . The other thing I believe is relevant is that if you install a new tank you have to use an adapter to use the original hydrostatic sender . This adapter raises the sender by at least quarter of an inch. I believe that this raise means that a full tank will only register as a little over 3/4 full on a perfectly functioning gauge - Installing calibrating rods will fix this but then the gauge will never be accurate other than when the tank is full. My solution was to cut out the gauge mounting area off an old tank and weld it into a new tank- Works great -once I fixed the issue of the POR 15 tank sealer I used flaking off through the fuel system -Karl

[JimG]

Update on my fuel gauge rebuild. After a couple of weeks it stopped reading. I took the air line off and poked a thin brass wire up it and found some slimy white liquid. I did this until the brass wire came out clean. This was probably blocking the air line. The gauge previously has some white build-up on the inside of the glass before cleaning and rebuilding. I had tried to remedy this my soaking the end of the air line in lime away overnight before reassembly. This is probably where it came from - so looks like that was my fault.

Then I did it. On reassembly, I over-torqued the brass ferrule and blew the end out - not thinking about this being a small brass part. I had it all snugged up and then tried for just one more little pull. So now I need to replace the brass ferrule and the tapered part of the end of the air line. Anyone know where I can get just these parts? Are they commonly available items or do I have to buy from an old Ford supplier?

How to attach? I was thinking I could use JB weld to attach the tapered part to the old line. I'm not sure It would be a good idea to try to solder under the dash. Maybe I could use an electric soldering iron, but certainly not a torch under there with wires around and me working upside down. Anyone have any thoughts on how best to fix?

[deuce lover]

Sent you emails

[highbeams]

Originally Posted by JimG

Update on my fuel gauge rebuild. After a couple of weeks it stopped reading. I took the air line off and poked a thin brass wire up it and found some slimy white liquid. I did this until the brass wire came out clean. This was probably blocking the air line. The gauge previously has some white build-up on the inside of the glass before cleaning and rebuilding. I had tried to remedy this my soaking the end of the air line in lime away overnight before reassembly. This is probably where it came from - so looks like that was my fault.

Then I did it. On reassembly, I over-torqued the brass ferrule and blew the end out - not thinking about this being a small brass part. I had it all snugged up and then tried for just one more little pull. So now I need to replace the brass ferrule and the tapered part of the end of the air line. Anyone know where I can get just these parts? Are they commonly available items or do I have to buy from an old Ford supplier?

How to attach? I was thinking I could use JB weld to attach the tapered part to the old line. I'm not sure It would be a good idea to try to solder under the dash. Maybe I could use an electric soldering iron, but certainly not a torch under there with wires around and me working upside down. Anyone have any thoughts on how best to fix?

THANK YOU for the post and 'warning'. ('the extra pull' = as I would've done.) re my '33 fuel gauge, I've been 'putting off' that job because I'm skeer'd of screwin' somethin' up.

the glass column has some-a-dat gunk in it. ('beginning to' remove the dash for goodgrain'g; it's still in, but I've got the six firewall-dash screws out. two of the six=heads twisted off, then 'went after' the remain'g threaded studs of the two w/a Vice-Grip, or they wouldn't've threaded out. (purchased six new screws) Also, the crank-out windshield mechanism hasn't seen the light of day for 87 yrs; originally not turnable in its completely-enclosed environment; goin' after that too once the dash is pulled back to the steer'g wheel, up and out. THANKS AGAIN for relating your experience; 'forewarned is forearmed'. All the Best to you on this.

[highbeams]

Originally Posted by JimG

I had redone my hydrostatic fuel gauge on my 34 in 2017, using red fluid from Classic and Exotic. In a few years, the red color faded even though the car is always kept in a garage, and I also had some white deposits showing up in the gauge, so I decided it was time to redo it. I thought I would post my experiences to help anyone else who wants to do this.

I bought two vials of red liquid from another source last year. I don't remember who I got it from, it seemed like he was a private individual that I may have read about on the barn or some other website like a Packard site. He claimed to have liquid that would not fade, and had only a few vials left. It was a good thing I bought two vials, as by the time they arrived, they had leaked inside the box on shipping so each was only about half full.

When I redid the gauge in 2017, I had soaked it in rust 911 and then painted the rusty inside of the gauge, so it was still in pretty good shape. The first time I did the gauge, it would only come up to about 5/8 to 1/2 when it was full. Went pretty much to empty when empty.

Cleaning up the gauge, I found the tube was dirty and the reservoir had some white powdery stuff in it. I use some brushes in a kit I had on hand from Harbor freight to clean these. The smallest brush fit perfectly in the glass tube and the next side up fit the gauge reservoir. I put a small piece of white cardboard behind the glass tube - just like it had when I originally disassembled it. I used a small piece of teflon tape on the threads of the reservoir.

I had read about how to adjust the level in this thread:

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...ht=hydrostatic

It said that to adjust the level, you add rods to the reservoir of the gauge - I believe this is to reduce the volume of the liquid in the gauge, so the pressure from the tank has less fluid to support and and this raises the liquid level. No one seemed to be very precise about how much to add, although the reference thread has some calculations. My gauge had one rod in it that was stuck inside. It also had a lot of white powdery residue in the reservoir. I soaked the gauge in lime away for a while and then used a small screw to grab the rod and pull it out. Once I had the rod out, I cleaned the rod up with steel wool and found it was brass, and about the diameter of a 12 ga wire. Since that rod only got the gauge up to half way when full, I bought a 1/8" diameter brass rod at Lowes ($3.80 for a 3 ft piece) and installed the gauge with a 2" long piece in the reservoir. It was larger then the old rod, but not hugely larger. I set the red liquid level at empty with the 1/8" rod in place and installed the gauge. I use a syringe to put the liquid in, as this also let me withdraw liquid if I got it too high. Test drives with the tank pretty empty looked somewhat promising, although the gauge was showing about 1/4 and seemed to go up and down a lot while driving. I went to the gas station and filled the tank and that blew the fluid out of the gauge. So the 1/8" rod was too large. Lost some of my scarce fluid on that attempt.

After that, I decided I needed to be careful as I had a limited amount of red fluid and approach things sort of like a science project - one change at a time and observe results during a test drive. After removing the gauge and cleaning everything up, I reinstalled the original rod in the reservoir and reinstalled everything. This test drive had the full tank level showing at about 1/2 - which is what this rod used to show previously - so I was back to where I used to be level wise, but with new red fluid, and proved that I had repeatability from what I had done 5 years earlier.

Now realizing that these gauges seem to be pretty touchy, I decided to try adding 24 ga brass wire I had on hand, one wire at a time, and test after each installation. So I took the air line off the gauge and added one 2" long piece of 24 ga brass wire as an addition to the original brass rod. Another test drive and this time the gauge went right up to full. So this shows how touchy these gauges are. One piece of 24 ga wire was enough to raise the full level from 1/2 to full. This is the type of information I could not find in any previous threads I looked at on adjusting the level of these King-Seeley gauges.

I would also mention that the test drive doesn't need to be long - but it does help to be on a bumpy road. Just a short drive on a bumpy road seemed to be enough to get the gauge to go to it's max level.

Here are photos of the tools I used and my final gauge position during the last test drive. We will see where the level goes after I drive the car more, but this looks pretty encouraging. I have read that other people have had trouble getting their gauges to more than 1/2 or so when full, so I thought I would relate the results of my science experiment. We will also see how long my new fluid stays red.

THANK YOU for the post and 'warning'. ('the extra pull' = as I would've done.) re my '33 fuel gauge, I've been 'putting off' that job because I'm skeer'd of screwin' somethin' up.

the glass column has some-a-dat gunk in it. ('beginning to' remove the dash for goodgrain'g; it's still in, but I've got the six firewall-dash screws out. two of the six=heads twisted off, then 'went after' the remain'g threaded studs of the two w/a Vice-Grip, or they wouldn't've threaded out. (purchased six new screws) Also, the crank-out windshield mechanism hasn't seen the light of day for 87 yrs; originally not turnable in its completely-enclosed environment; goin' after that too once the dash is pulled back to the steer'g wheel, up and out. THANKS AGAIN for relating your experience; 'forewarned is forearmed'. All the Best to you on this.

[al's28/33]

JimG, thank you for posting this. These gauges, although authentic set-up for early 30's Fords seem to be a thorny difficult-to-locate parts and difficult-to-calibrate. I switched to a later 40's needle gauge that has operated faithfully, however if parts and maintenance were much easier I would not hesitate to have it all 100% authentic.


Good job on your work.

[BoxCar Tom]

Here's some food for thought. When these cars were produced the instrument panel, with the fuel gauge, was installed on the assembly line long before fuel was put in the tank. In short, a gauge with a set amount of fluid and an empty fuel tank. Add fuel, pressurize the air line, gauge reacts to the amount of fuel/pressure.

[Charlie Stephens]

I seem to remember reading several years ago that the original fluid was no longer available as it posed a cancer risk. I don't remember where I read it but I would handle fluid carefully just to be safe.

Charlie Stephens

[highbeams]

Originally Posted by al's28/33

JimG, thank you for posting this. These gauges, although authentic set-up for early 30's Fords seem to be a thorny difficult-to-locate parts and difficult-to-calibrate. I switched to a later 40's needle gauge that has operated faithfully, however if parts and maintenance were much easier I would not hesitate to have it all 100% authentic.


Good job on your work.

I'm still consider'g the idea, doing the gauges like you did, and 'sleeve' the glass tube w/a red-colored paper. reply/replies welcomed. Thank you.