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Old 12-08-2020, 07:21 AM   #1
BRENT in 10-uh-C
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Default So, ...how many Model-As can actually do the 'Three S's reliably?

Paul Shinn has produced another quality video that topics on something I have preached for a long time. Go have a look: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mB6ReOj7qEE&t=358s

Everywhere you look, it seems there are ads that have 'restored' Model-As for sale for $10k-$20k, ....but, -can these cars reliably Start, Stop, and Steer on a daily basis just like they did some 90 years ago? The truthful answer is "No!". The reason is simple. Whether we like to admit it or not, in reality these so-called Model-As were really just 'R&R-ed' (Repaired & Repainted) instead of truly being 'Restored'. Paul does a fantastic job of explaining all of this in his YouTube video where he found himself taking one of those 'restored' Model-As, and actually restoring what components were just repaired before by the previous owner so that it would be reliable being driven on a daily basis. A touchy topic for some hobbyists, but take note of what Paul is saying when discussing the actual $$ value of a Model-A that has been 'sorted'.

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Old 12-08-2020, 08:03 AM   #2
Patrick L.
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Default Re: So, ...how many Model-As can actually do the 'Three S's reliably?

I've not yet looked at Paul's video.
It seems to me that a vehicle doesn't have to be restored to be able to perform the 3 S's. If its been repaired properly it should handle those tasks quite well.
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Old 12-08-2020, 08:06 AM   #3
ronn
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Default Re: So, ...how many Model-As can actually do the 'Three S's reliably?

Ill bite. 30% comfortably..............
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Old 12-08-2020, 08:07 AM   #4
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Default Re: So, ...how many Model-As can actually do the 'Three S's reliably?

Enjoyed the videos Thanks
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Old 12-08-2020, 08:20 AM   #5
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Default Re: So, ...how many Model-As can actually do the 'Three S's reliably?

My '31 Blue Coupe" can do the "Three S's reliabily", but is no longer a daily driver. Woody can do it too.
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Old 12-08-2020, 09:24 AM   #6
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Default Re: So, ...how many Model-As can actually do the 'Three S's reliably?

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I am a little confused?

Are we saying a car has to be completely restored to show quality to be considered a safe daily driver?

I have a car that the body has never been off the frame. However, everything else has at one point or another. Rear end, transmission, rebuilt engine, completely professional rebuilt front end and braking system, new springs and new correct shocks, new tires, new correct radiator, new Zenith carburetor, rebuilt distributor and generator, leakless water pump, new aluminum two blade fan, new wiring. The list goes on and on.

Would a car like this not be considered a Safe Driver. Oh! It has also won many awards at local car shows in the pre 1930 class.

I don’t call our car restored, just well maintained as you would your modern car.

Enjoy.
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Old 12-08-2020, 09:24 AM   #7
Jeff P. / MN
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Default Re: So, ...how many Model-As can actually do the 'Three S's reliably?

Brent, Excellent video, thank you for posting. I am fortunate that my Model A was RESTORED by a retired airline mechanic and instructor of same. His work and attention to detail was beyond fastidious. With proper maintenance I will benefit from his work as long as I am the caretaker.
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Old 12-08-2020, 09:35 AM   #8
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Default Re: So, ...how many Model-As can actually do the 'Three S's reliably?

Both of my Model A's can do the 3 S's, but the steering is by Armstrong! I have been experimenting for several years with different combinations of front tire pressures and steering gear lube, but as I mature over 78, my body has less Armstrong, and the Model A's steering has too much. I am currently running with a combo of grease + SAE 140 + Teflon in the steering gearbox, and 30 psig front tire pressure.

I find 35 psig gives too harsh a reaction to road bumps, it is easier to steer. It would be fantastic if some entrepreneur made a numerically lower set of steering gears.
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Old 12-08-2020, 09:36 AM   #9
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Default Re: So, ...how many Model-As can actually do the 'Three S's reliably?

Paul Shinn's video was nice, and he still has a flip phone?

If the three S'es were Stall, Shimmy, and Short-circuit I'd say 50%. Without those maladies half the posts here would disappear.
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Old 12-08-2020, 09:48 AM   #10
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Default Re: So, ...how many Model-As can actually do the 'Three S's reliably?

What I appreciate about this approach is that attaining the 3 S's is very much within the capabilities of most owners. Rebuilding the steering, drivetrain, brakes, electrical, and fuel delivery can (mostly) be done with basic tools. That's not to say that it's easy, or that you're likely to do it correctly the first time. But you can do it until you get it right.

It's also the case that the 3 S's are invisible – certainly to casual inspection and mostly to close inspection as well. Can't tell until you drive it. So there's no incentive to correct them if your intent is to produce a car that unskilled onlookers will compliment you on.
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Old 12-08-2020, 09:49 AM   #11
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Default Re: So, ...how many Model-As can actually do the 'Three S's reliably?

Since March, I've been using my hot rod A's on almost a daily basis. This photo was taken right after Thanksgiving at the local grocery store. The Chevy is owned by a guy passing through from Utah and the Cobra is a neighbor's. I use the '29 CCPU (avatar) when I know that I'm buying more than a quart of milk. So yes, my A's Stop, Start and Steer and they get used almost on a daily basis.
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Old 12-08-2020, 09:58 AM   #12
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Default Re: So, ...how many Model-As can actually do the 'Three S's reliably?

Depends .. some value the mechanical correctness, others appearance.. some want both, others settle for neither.. what's interesting is how ever beautiful in engineering or design the machine is inanimate, it only reflects the whims of the owner.

Bob, try a 53 to 56 ford f1 steering box if you haven't already, 17 to 1 ratio.. you seem pretty handy, you can modify it yourself to fit, other than machining the sector shaft.
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Old 12-08-2020, 10:05 AM   #13
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Default Re: So, ...how many Model-As can actually do the 'Three S's reliably?

I've watched a number of his videos.

My car was frame off re-build with 2 exceptions as money wasn't plentiful; steering box and rear end were left to "lets see how they drive, seem OK now."

The steering problem turned out to be the not the box but the pitman-sector connection and the sector housing moving on the frame. The read end differential so far is fine.

My brakes work fine, but they feel a little like they 'stretch' on firm application. Steering is vibration free at every speed, tracks like any modern car. About 3/4" play at the rim. Starting, if I run it frequently is good. Let it sit 3 months and ... not so much. It cranks slow, at first I was told the engine seals were tight and would break in, I'm now suspecting poor ground or weak cable.

I'm also running with no shocks. Don't seem to need 'em. I have the 4 originals, but so far it hasn't been worth the trouble/expense to rebuild and put them on.
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Old 12-08-2020, 10:07 AM   #14
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Default Re: So, ...how many Model-As can actually do the 'Three S's reliably?

Please excuse my ignorance but what is with the second shifter?. Is that for an OD auxiliary box?
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Old 12-08-2020, 10:07 AM   #15
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Default Re: So, ...how many Model-As can actually do the 'Three S's reliably?

Thanks Jack. I have a spare steering to play with, so I will try the graft of a the later Ford gearbox.
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Old 12-08-2020, 10:17 AM   #16
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Default Re: So, ...how many Model-As can actually do the 'Three S's reliably?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Licensed to kill View Post
Please excuse my ignorance but what is with the second shifter?. Is that for an OD auxiliary box?
Mitchell overdrive shifter
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Old 12-08-2020, 10:48 AM   #17
Ernie Vitucci
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Default Re: So, ...how many Model-As can actually do the 'Three S's reliably?

Good Morning Bob...What about the shorter Pitman Arm? According to venders it makes steering easier...Ernie in Arizona
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Old 12-08-2020, 10:53 AM   #18
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Default Re: So, ...how many Model-As can actually do the 'Three S's reliably?

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Originally Posted by Bob Bidonde View Post
I find 35 psig gives too harsh a reaction to road bumps, it is easier to steer.
I wonder how switching to radials would affect this tradeoff.
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Old 12-08-2020, 10:55 AM   #19
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Default Re: So, ...how many Model-As can actually do the 'Three S's reliably?

I have several Model A’s and they all meet the aforementioned criteria only because my cars are maintained by a very competent mechanic!
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Old 12-08-2020, 11:02 AM   #20
katy
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Default Re: So, ...how many Model-As can actually do the 'Three S's reliably?

My '31 CCPU was refurbished, not restored. It can start, steer and stop w/out any problems.
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