Let's start a junkyard fuel injection discussion

[Kilohertz]

Hi all,

I want to get a discussion going about building a fuel injection system for the flathead using mainly parts you can get at the wreckers. It's easy to spend $1-2K on a new off the shelf system but I want to build something using existing technology, something that is readily available and cheap, and something that will work with our little flatty's.

I have been reading and learning about various injection systems used over the years, both GM and Ford have some good relatively simple systems from the 80's and 90's, I'm sure there are others and certainly imports but I want something we can get readily from our local junk yards.

For the ECM, possibly use something stock, but most likely would need the tunabilty of a Megasquirt or similar controller, something you can adjust and tune on your laptop.

Also would need to figure out what manifold would work, throttle body, adapter plates etc. I would like to incorporate ignition as a possible option, having the timing controlled by the ECM, but that could come later. I think multi-port would be too complex and would require some serious machine work to install all the injectors, fuel rails etc.

I am currently leaning toward a GM system from say a 3.8L or even a 2.8L. Just starting to research what vehicles/engines might be good donors.

So, let's hear what you have to say, have you already built something, thinking about it but not done anything yet like me.....I think between all the smart people on this board, we should be able to come up with a decent system.

Cheers

[cmbrucew]

You could find a Holley PRO-Jection at a swap meet. Needs a 15# fuel pump and a return line to the tank. Also 12 volt. Use a GM throttle body 2V from an S10.
Bruce

[51 MERC-CT]

Originally Posted by Kilohertz

Hi all,

So, let's hear what you have to say, have you already built something, thinking about it but not done anything yet like me.....I think between all the smart people on this board, we should be able to come up with a decent system.

Cheers

OK, for the sake of discussion, what do you expect to achieve by installing such a system?

[Gene1949]

Originally Posted by 51 MERC-CT

OK, for the sake of discussion, what do you expect to achieve by installing such a system?

I can't speak for the op but I've often considered it myself. Just think, no more fuel issues and an updated ignition system

I like to drive my car without the hassles of the ignition issues you read here constantly or the fuel problems. Fuel injection isn't for the purist or someone who like to futz with fuel or ignition issues alongside the road. Again, you read it here every day.
That's why I went to an electric fuel pump updated fuel hoses and a very simple 4GC carb.
A GM type distributer with a magnetic pickup, HEI brain and a late model "E" coil driving platinum plugs. Very compact setting between the passenger water pump and distributor base

[tubman]

Didn't there used to e a guy that poseted on here that turned some terrific quarter mile ET's (I think I remember 12's) in a 32' 3-window with a fuel-injected 265 ci flathead? Name was "32 something" or "something 32". Anyone else remember this?

[Elmo Rodge]

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Tubman, you're thinking of "Flat32". We modified one of his setups to run without butterflies for my Bonneville Lakester. I think I have attached a picture.
Wayno

[tubman]

Thanks "Wayno", that's him. I made a few mistakes in my post. First, it wasn't here; it was on the H.A.M.B. Here's a link : https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...d-tune.942729/. Second, it wasn't the twelves, it was the thirteens; still pretty impressive with a full-fendered steel car. This was from 2014; I believe he did dip into the 12's later. And third, it was not 265 ci, it was 268 ci.

Does that answer your question "51 MERC-CT"?

It's probably not really relevant here, though.

[51 MERC-CT]

Originally Posted by tubman

Thanks "Wayno", that's him. I made a few mistakes in my post. First, it wasn't here; it was on the H.A.M.B. Here's a link : https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...d-tune.942729/. Second, it wasn't the twelves, it was the thirteens; still pretty impressive with a full-fendered steel car. This was from 2014; I believe he did dip into the 12's later. And third, it was not 265 ci, it was 268 ci.

Does that answer your question "51 MERC-CT"?

It's probably not really relevant here, though.

My question was posted for the OP.
Are you speaking for the OP?

[Cool Hand Lurker]

Originally Posted by 51 MERC-CT

My question was posted for the OP.
Are you speaking for the OP?

I am speaking for the Forum discussion thread. This is a forum. The OP stated he wanted to start a discussion. Everybody joins in to a discussion. You have the option to send a personal message if you don't want others to comment.

[Ol' Ron]

Back in the late 90's I was replacing the engine in my daughter in laws Doge van. Which had a Jap 4 banger in it. It had a one barrel EFI unit on it. I took it home and installed it on a stock 239 flathead. I also took the fuel tank . I had this GE dyno and the engine ran very well, producing more torque than the 94 carb. unfortunately. It wouldn't run over 3000 RPM It was the simplest fuel injection system on the market. Since then I've mage a dozen or so EFI units and never got any running. I blame stupidly and not enough time to devote to it. At present I have a Megasquirt unit which cost less than 400 bucks and has the ignition system it it as well. Put a late 80's GM TB on a merc intake and your in business. When I get the time I'll work on it. But, first. Gota get my 200hp 258 engine running .
Gramps

[ken-r-mer]

Since 2015 I've been running 2 - 1988 Ford Escort 2.0 liter TBI's on my flathead V8 with mega squirt II software. I used 3/8" thick aluminum plate adapters mounted to 2 Stromberg 97 bases on an Offenhauser super dual manifold.

I figured a standard 239 cu inch flathead is 3.92 liters, so 2 TBI's from 1988 2.0 liter 4 cylinder engines would be a good match.

Oh and an OEM TBI will run about $150 on EBAY....well it did in 2019.

[Ken Henry]

I have Megaquirt EFI on the 8BA in my 51 Tudor, works great! I used a dual carb intake and customized adapters to mount throttle bodies from a Ducati motorcycle. The ignition advance is also controlled by Megaquirt. I’m using the Ford EDIS8 system with a trigger wheel brazed to the crankshaft pulley. Will try to add some photos to this thread later today. It was not easy or inexpensive to put together and the gains in MPG and power were modest on my stock engine. After a performance rebuild though with increased displacement and CR though...

[tubman]

Seems to be lotsa mentions of "MegaSquirt" by the guys who have done this successfully.

Ron, I'm just putting the finishing touches on my own fresh 258" with a MAX-1, re-worked Edmunds heads, 2 94's on a Navarro "Universal" manifold and a Mallory dual point among others. Where can I find that extra 60 or 70 HP? Supercharger?

[mfirth]

I had an 84 Thunderbird V 8 that had what looked like a two throat carb, but was in fact fuel injection. The base looked like the Ford 2 barrel of that era and i actually ran that style carb on an 8Ba for a while on a Merc manifold with adapter. That F I unit had a return line to the tank. Might be worth looking into. ??? .02 cents or nonsense

[mfirth]

Denny, what will the 258 go into ???

[Elmo Rodge]

On my car I'm running AEM electronics. Incredible tunability for each cylinder. I've run 172 mph so far with an otherwise fairly mild motor. 284 inches 1.6 intake 1.5 exhaust.
Wayno

[tubman]

"T" tub "Hot Rod". It used to be a bucket, but somebody stole the body (!) while it was in winter storage eons ago. I am resurrecting it as a "Tub" (still a two-seater) to get some decent interior room. Because of my current back, heart, and Corvette problems, it is officially now a "stalled project".

[Kilohertz]

Good morning guys,

Wow! Lots of overnight activity, great.

Well 51-Merc to answer your question first, there are multiple reasons for venturing down the FI path. For one, I am tired of trying to find 60 year old carbs to fit manifolds they weren't designed for, then make them work, fix worn throttle shafts etc. As much as I enjoy tinkering on carbs, points and weights, I've been doing it for 40 some odd years and want to learn and tinker with something newer and combine my electronics knowledge with my mechanical ability. I really like the flathead engine, and this truck build is my first exposure to flatheads, and it's grown on me. It's also my first ground up build, this truck basically has an engine and trans and rear end, all other systems need to be built and installed, so I can pick the fuel tank and pump to work with FI, return lines etc.. I still have the LS engine sitting in the garage, and a couple of good 302s in trucks which would drop right in, but I want this to be a cool old hot rod, with a little bit of a modern twist.

Yes, Megasquirt appeals to me as it comes as a PCB kit and it's something I could assemble in my sleep, although I may find a used one already built. I have a '95 truck with a 350 sitting at the back of the property, under 3' of snow which will have to wait until spring before I can start robbing parts from it, if they are suitable. I think the TB will be too large, but the distributor would be useful if I decide to use GM parts, also the sensors and ECM may be usable.

Some good ideas presented so far as well. I really like the dual motorbike TB idea as they are small and could be a good match for the dual intakes. I have an Offy 4 bbl intake, as well I am in the process of acquiring a Merc 2 bbl manifold which may be what I start with.

I have read about the EDIS system but still need to do more research. O'l Ron I recall seeing a post from you on another forum a few years ago basically asking the same thing, I didn't see much of a reply from that group.

And you boys that have built a system already, yes please, post some pictures for us.

More later.

Cheers

PS here are a few links that I found quite informative.

https://www.fuelinjectedford.com/page1.html

https://www.binderplanet.com/forums/...rt-here.47254/

http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=69362

[Ziggster]

Originally Posted by Kilohertz

Well here are a few links that I found quite informative.

https://www.fuelinjectedford.com/page1.html

https://www.binderplanet.com/forums/...rt-here.47254/

http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=69362

Just to add based on the link to BinderPlant (IH Truck forum) above. I have a 79 IH Traveler with a 345 2 bbl. in many ways very similar to the flathead. Low power, low top end, poor economy, heavy, etc. Many folks there echo the same issues as raised here. Aside from ditching the boat anchor of a motor, some have opted for a FI system made for the engine. I could see it being adapted, or better yet, perhaps he could make a kit for flatheads if there was enough interest (no affiliation). Not cheap ($1.5K), but IIRC most that have purchased it are very happy with it. As I know little about it, I've provided some links for those interested.

http://www.hamiltonfuelinjection.com/

https://www.ihpartsamerica.com/store/HFI-TBI-SYS.html

http://scoutpluss.com/fuel-injection/

[itslow]

Originally Posted by Kilohertz

...I am tired of trying to find 60 year old carbs to fit manifolds they weren't designed for, then make them work, fix worn throttle shafts etc.

What the heck carburetors are you trying to put on your flathead intake?

The 97, 94, 81 style carburetors that are common and era-appropriate are bolt-on mates for the intakes that would be used on these engines. You can also buy them (well, 97s, anyway) new with zero of the issues you might find with an old carburetor that's in need of a rebuild.

Seems like those aren't really logical reasons for wanting to go to EFI.

I can understand reasons such as: better throttle response and driveability, instant start-up, improved spark and fuel control, variable tuning, etc, though.