Power Steering Make Up 56 Wagon

[Jwawhite]

Okay, can't get under the car yet and it could be a myriad of things but today while backing in the driveway I heard a clunk sound while turning the steering wheel slightly L and R. Sound maybe coming from R side.

Okay those that wrench on 'em, your telepathic guess?

Wife just walked in "it's a money pit"!!!!

[Jwawhite]

Found the issue, you know those grommets on car shocks? The grommet is missing at the end of the power steering ram shaft. There is a nut, large washer and then the missing grommet then bracket.
Idea where to buy one? How do you hold the shaft to remove nut? Is the shaft under pressure with the engine off? Possible to push inwards to replace grommets?

[KULTULZ]

Get a load of this!

The OP has a dressed 56 PARKLANE in his avatar that is hard to see (especially at my age) and he didn't post a photo for site pleasure.

Anyways...

Originally Posted by Jwawhite

Found the issue, you know those grommets on car shocks? The grommet is missing at the end of the power steering ram shaft. There is a nut, large washer and then the missing grommet then bracket.

Idea where to buy one? How do you hold the shaft to remove nut? Is the shaft under pressure with the engine off? Possible to push inwards to replace grommets?

There was (is) a bushing repair kit for that cylinder.

I would think MOOG or TRW.

I can identify with the wife complaining...

[Ole Don]

Removing the nut; some had a pal nut. Remove that first, then clean the exposed threads and soak it. The end of the shaft should be squared off, to grab hold of while you loosen the nut. Usually, it will twist and be ruined for its intended purpose. Grab the shaft with a vice grip under the area where the rubber went, then the nut should come off with no major issues. With the motor off, you will be able to push in the shaft to replace the rubber and the washer on the left side of the frame bracket, the pull the shaft out and in to the bracket to replace the outer rubber. NAPA carries the rubber for the upper front shock on MOPAR products in the fifties. They fit.

[KULTULZ]

There is (was) a special socket to fit this end. Was also used to loosen shock stems (before I discovered the SAWZALL... ).

[Jwawhite]

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This is a new hobby for me, I'd never heard the term before "unmolested car". This is a molested car, it looks great but look closely and you find cut corners. I've been straightening out the corners since I've bought it. Thanks K for the diagrams, just from memory of looking at the cylinder the system has been changed. Thanks for the advice Ole, I find the repairs are smoother with it. Have yet to get car on stands for repairs but when the wife cranked the steering wheel I could determine where the noise was coming from. K, here's a photo of the car this morning.

[Daves55Sedan]

Rubber shock bushing falling off of ram cylinder shaft was my first guess.
I think it is easiest to fix this by raising both front tires off the floor just enough at least so they don't touch the ground. First, remove the locknut, the main nut and big washer off the ram cylinder shaft. With engine NOT running, you can turn the steering wheel to pull the ran cylinder shaft out of the frame bracket hole. Then you can insert your new rubber bushing on the backside of the bracket. Get someone to sit in the car and turn the steering wheel back s l o w l y, while you guide the shaft back through the hole in the bracket. Now you can insert your sleeve that goes over the shaft, new outer rubber bushing, large washer and nut. Don't forget to re-install the little locknut. DONE.

[KULTULZ]

THANX for the photo! Looks like you have a good start.

[dmsfrr]

Jwawhite,
I wish you'd let me know, I would have traded your grommet problem for this nut & bolt problem.
The blind nut inside the frame pulled thru and someone tack welded the casting to the frame, which of course didn't stay put at all. Had to open up the frame to put in a replacement nut.
.

[miker98038]

dmsfrr, that looks like some of the work I found on my 55. Apparently the drug dealer who owned it (2 owners back) traded work for product, and paid in advance.

[Jwawhite]

dmsfrr, I also own a C5 Corvette (try driving my '56 and the Vette back to back!) and ONE time my right lower skid bar snagged a curb stop, pulling the bar over. I elected to replace the assembly and Rivet Nut Inserts (RNI) hold it to the frame....the incident pulled out one RNI. I bought a couple from the Dealer and rigged up a helper flat piece of metal and using a double nut stud was able to start the crushing action inside the frame. Just before insertion I also applied some JB Weld and was able to Torque the Assy to specs.
Now for a "corner issue" on the car. I'll take a photo when I can but one bracket is shaped in way where two bolts hold it to the side of the frame and there is one bolt mounted to the bottom of the frame...in relation to the power steering Assy. The upper bolt (of the two) may not have been placed in the proper position in frame for the bracket on the bottom of frame is not flush! I would need a triangular spacer to hold the bracket flush ---which is at an angle. Have you seen this before? The person who installed this bracket also pulled out partially the RNI because of the angled space between frame and bracket.

[Jwawhite]

Got to crawl under the car and guess what I found? Another item that was not taken care of properly. The inner large washer that protects the grommet is missing and you are correct Dave, the outer grommet is missing. Note how tore up the inner grommet is without the large washer--- also missing is the lock nut along with the sleeve.....

I ordered a new grommet kit but unfortunately the kits do not come with the large washer, any ideas where I might find a replacement x2?

[KULTULZ]

Do you see the washer in the PARTS ILL?





If not, it was someone's attempt to patch it.

[Jwawhite]

Yes K I do, but the kit 3C590 do not have the large washers today....perhaps original Ford parts do.

BTW, thank you for the diagram, a big help!

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Jwawhite

...but the kit 3C590 do not have the large washers today....perhaps original Ford parts do.

BTW, thank you for the diagram, a big help!

...whew...

I see what you mean. REPRO is crap. MOOG no longer offers the kit either.

Have you tried NAPA?

The FORD SERVICE PN for the kit is B3AZ 3C590-A (53/56 FORD/MERC) if you come across one NOS. I GOOGLED but came up with nothing (sounds like my sex life).

The actual insulator(s) and washers (cups actually) had no separate PN but were only offered in the kit. Maybe buy the Mickey Mouse Kit and use correct size flat washers until you can find suitable replacement?

Attached is a 57 FORD Ill. It has a sleeve to mount between the insulators to prevent over compression and possible damage to the frame mounting bracket. I believe the earlier kit had the same but not listedin the 56 Kit Contents. The answer I believe is going to be finding the Shock Absorber Stem End Mtg Kit in the correct sizes.

Keep us posted...

[Daves55Sedan]

Guy's, that sleeve (tube) I and others have mentioned was not used on 1956 and earlier models, but '57 and later models did have the sleeve.
I only mentioned the sleeve in my original post above, because JWA mentioned his setup might not be the original. And I know that many people have swapped their old '55 and earlier ram cylinders with the improved '57 and later cylinders.
If you do get the proper rubber bushings, make sure you get the giant heavy washers to go with them, otherwise the smaller shock absorber washers will dig into the rubber and damage them pre-maturely.

[Daves55Sedan]

Originally Posted by dmsfrr

The blind nut inside the frame pulled thru and someone tack welded the casting to the frame, which of course didn't stay put at all. Had to open up the frame to put in a replacement nut.
.

dmsfrr...I don't know if you are aware of this or not, but the original cast iron idler arm bracket that also holds the ram cylinder shaft end utilized the same frame bolt holes that your manual steering idler arm bracket uses and also bolts to one or more "crush-nuts" inserted into those hexagon holes in the bottom of the frame. In other words, the manual steering idler arm bracket is NOT used on cars that have power steering. The power steering idler arm bracket is a cast iron idler arm and ram cylinder holding bracket all in one piece.
One bolt to hold the ram cylinder shaft end is not enough. That's partly why it failed along with someone trying to attempt to weld cast iron.
Fomoco made at least three different power steering idler arm brackets in the mid fifties. I have a couple spare ones out in the garage with a 100% complete refurbished '55 power steering setup. The brackets I have are not correct for the full size Fords. Maybe T-bird, or truck?

[Daves55Sedan]

Originally Posted by Jwawhite

one bracket is shaped in way where two bolts hold it to the side of the frame and there is one bolt mounted to the bottom of the frame...in relation to the power steering Assy. The upper bolt (of the two) may not have been placed in the proper position in frame for the bracket on the bottom of frame is not flush! I would need a triangular spacer to hold the bracket flush ---which is at an angle. Have you seen this before? The person who installed this bracket also pulled out partially the RNI because of the angled space between frame and bracket.

All I can tell you is that the two bolts thru the side of the frame utilize the same holes that were used for the manual steering idler arm bracket. But I know that doesn't help much. However, if you un-bolt the bracket and take it down, you can identify the proper holes because the two idler arm bracket holes have steel tube sleeves that join the inner frame rail to the outer rail between the holes. Another possibility is that you may have the wrong cast iron idler arm bracket. Fomoco made a couple of variations of this bracket back then.
Also, the proper bracket for the full-size cars has a recess for each of the two bottom holes so that the bottom of the "crush-nuts" will fit into the recesses, thus allowing the bracket surface to fit tight to the bottom of the frame.

[KULTULZ]

Jwawhite

Did you get my PM?

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Daves55Sedan

Guy's, that sleeve (tube) I and others have mentioned was not used on 1956 and earlier models, but '57 and later models did have the sleeve.

I only mentioned the sleeve in my original post above, because JWA mentioned his setup might not be the original. And I know that many people have swapped their old '55 and earlier ram cylinders with the improved '57 and later cylinders.

If you do get the proper rubber bushings, make sure you get the giant heavy washers to go with them, otherwise the smaller shock absorber washers will dig into the rubber and damage them pre-maturely.

Allow me to explain my previous post concerning the unavailability of the OEM kits.

What is being sold now (inferior quality) is insulators without the OEM washers. Therefore, the washers (cone shaped to contain the insulator) must be sourced from a different source, whether take-off or from another application (shocks - sway bar links - etc). One would have to sort through to find the correct size.

What the OP is referring to is the Vendor Service Replacement Kits come without the washers, and I seriously doubt the correct shape/quality of the insulators.



Another way is conversion to a 57/59 setup as you said or go to the later GRANADA setup, giving better replacement parts accessibility.

It may also be that the 3351 MTG BRKT is incorrect/wrong for the application.

[Jwawhite]

Hello K and others, I've ordered the aftermarket kit and will respond as to its quality. We have a source for old 50s parts from Jim out of Paradise, CA. I gave him a call the other day and he's sending a pair of steel washers that may work for me. I'll apply silicone grease to the new rubbers and install when the parts come in. What poor quality of work on this molested but improving vehicle.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

Jwawhite

Did you get my PM?

Originally Posted by Jwawhite

Hello K and others,

I've ordered the aftermarket kit and will respond as to its quality. We have a source for old 50s parts from Jim out of Paradise, CA. I gave him a call the other day and he's sending a pair of steel washers that may work for me. I'll apply silicone grease to the new rubbers and install when the parts come in. What poor quality of work on this molested but improving vehicle.

I found a NOS kit and sent a Private Message to you (hoping you would get access first).

Did you get the PM?

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by Daves55Sedan

dmsfrr...I don't know if you are aware of this or not, but the original cast iron idler arm bracket that also holds the ram cylinder shaft end utilized the same frame bolt holes that your manual steering idler arm bracket uses and also bolts to one or more "crush-nuts" inserted into those hexagon holes in the bottom of the frame. In other words, the manual steering idler arm bracket is NOT used on cars that have power steering. The power steering idler arm bracket is a cast iron idler arm and ram cylinder holding bracket all in one piece.
One bolt to hold the ram cylinder shaft end is not enough. That's partly why it failed along with someone trying to attempt to weld cast iron.
.....

The one piece PS & Idler arm bracket on this '55 project was originally held on with three bolts, but the bottom one failed.

Bolt heads - they were originally inserted from the outside of frame with nuts & washers on the 'bracket' side. In photos 1 & 2 they are temporarily inserted backwards, to hold the bracket up in place.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by dmsfrr

The one piece PS & Idler arm bracket on this '55 project was originally held on with three bolts, but the bottom one failed.

Correct. The bottom bolt (20649-S) is designed to not allow the actual bracket 3511 to flex or fail due to the strain @ the point the PS cylinder exerts pressure on it (as evidenced by the fastener failure). The upper two bolts just mounts and stabilizes the bracket for the idler arm.

BTW- The mounting bracket B5S 3351-A is used on all three BIRD model years.

That tack weld was ugly...

[Jwawhite]

Wealth of Knowledge that's what I see...I note on my frame the Nut insert hole for the T Birds, not used on my set-up.

Remember when I wrote about cars that have been somewhat messed up over time?

Today I was able to remove the nut on the Ram Rod. The threads are a bit messed up, a die was used but still the nut hangs up part way down. (Was the shaft held here last assy?).

This is what I discovered, the length of the shaft is too short to hold the aftermarket grommets for my car. These 2 grommets measure 5/8" each, but the mounting shaft width is only 1" in length. Also my shaft threads are 7/16 by 20, the nut in the kit appears to be a 3/8". Only the inboard grommet was available and in its tore up condition about 5/16"

What system/year do I have on this car?

[dmsfrr]

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Don't assume the bushing kit is correct for the car.
Yes the original PS cylinder may have been changed but it's also very possible you were sent / sold a kit that isn't the right one. See if they have something better.

If that doesn't work out and since you need replacement parts to get it working, go for the next easiest thing and look for curved washers & rubber bushings that fit the steering cylinder rod you have.
Misc. steady rest, control arm or shock absorber bushing parts may fit???
And they don't have to be from a '55/'57 Ford, as long as they fit well.
.

[KULTULZ]

...the length of the shaft is too short to hold the aftermarket grommets for my car. These 2 grommets measure 5/8" each, but the mounting shaft width is only 1" in length.

Also my shaft threads are 7/16 by 20, the nut in the kit appears to be a 3/8". Only the inboard grommet was available and in its tore up condition about 5/16"

What dmsfrr said... Your rubbers are too large...

The cylinder sounds to be correct by the threaded stem size but after all of these years, it might be off a Studebaker.

The kit with a 3/8" nut sounds like the kit is 57/ .

[miker98038]

I’m with dmsfrr on that, find what fits. I might also look at urethane bushings, especially if you end up needing something thin. It will probably give enough of a cushion and still hold up, where a cut down rubber one might fail sooner.

[dmsfrr]

.KULTULZ could well have found what you need.

But if you can't find oem style parts that fit, parts you can use could be almost anywhere.

Example...
Baby Bird oil pans have an uncommonly large drain plug. I was in a hurry looking for a replacement gasket and a very accommodating fellow behind the counter at the closest NAPA store found one that fits 100% perfectly. I bought 4 of them.
IIRC they're actually for a recent Dodge 3/4 ton pickup with a big diesel engine.

.

[KULTULZ]

Performance Polyurethane End Link Set, Grommets and Washer Set

HERE- http://www.energysuspension.com/prod...-Bushings.html

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by dmsfrr

The one piece PS & Idler arm bracket on this '55 project was originally held on with three bolts, but the bottom one failed.

Bolt heads - they were originally inserted from the outside of frame with nuts & washers on the 'bracket' side. In photos 1 & 2 they are temporarily inserted backwards, to hold the bracket up in place.

KULTULZ Sticking His Nose Where It doesn't Belong...

dmsfrr-

I was looking through this thread this morning and looked closely at your photo above.

It seems (to me anyways) that the retaining bracket cap screws lost their torque value allowing the bracket to move on the frame as evidenced by the cap screw heads wallowing and digging into the frame rail and the bottom fastener pulling out of it's retainer.

Maybe a couple of GRADE 5 flat washers under the heads to distribute and maintain torque value?

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

... It seems (to me anyways) that the retaining bracket cap screws lost their torque value allowing the bracket to move on the frame as evidenced by the cap screw heads wallowing and digging into the frame rail and the bottom fastener pulling out of it's retainer.

Maybe a couple of GRADE 5 flat washers under the heads to distribute and maintain torque value?

No telling how long it's had that problem, and the idler arm bushings are shot as well. I was barely able to put 100 miles on the car before I had to pull the engine. All the suspension bushings need to be replaced too, once the engine is running again.

Yes, the bracket will get better hardware when it goes back on.

.

[Jwawhite]

K looking at the kit you posted, the washer ID appear to be different, also the ID of the grommets appear to be too large. The grommets may hang down on the shaft and one washer may slip over the shoulder of the Ram shaft. But we're getting closer, I need a kit with more slender grommets with proper washers. Looking at dmsffr pics the grommets appear to be slender. I've determined there are two differing Ram shaft dimensions wherein one needs the sleeve and the other 7/16" does not. I am concerned about the OD dimension cut into the inside and outside of the bracket. I think the grommet would be cut by the edge. I am trying to find urethane ones, perhaps I should look for a 56 Thunderbird kit.

[Jwawhite]

dmsffr and K:

https://www.larrystbird.com/product/...ting-kit-5556/

Perhaps my source?

Check out page 13, will call them (and above) on Monday

https://www.classictbird.com/pdf/CASCO-webalog.pdf

[dmsfrr]

Talking w/ them on the phone so they can double check the size of what you need before ordering is a plus.
Good luck in your search.

ps: Casco should have a fair sized inventory of good used oem parts.

.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by dmsfrr

The blind nut inside the frame pulled thru and someone tack welded the casting to the frame, which of course didn't stay put at all. Had to open up the frame to put in a replacement nut.

I forgot to mention this, but there is a replacement fastener whereas you don't have to go into the rail itself-

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

I forgot to mention this, but there is a replacement fastener whereas you don't have to go into the rail itself-

Thanks, I thought of that but the cast bracket on the car doesn't have a recess in it for the outer lip of the nut, and I didn't want a spacer between the bracket & frame.

[Daves55Sedan]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

I forgot to mention this, but there is a replacement fastener whereas you don't have to go into the rail itself-

Yes, they are called "crush-nuts" and they are available at most of your favorite resto parts suppliers in the power steering section.

[Daves55Sedan]

Originally Posted by dmsfrr

Thanks, I thought of that but the cast bracket on the car doesn't have a recess in it for the outer lip of the nut, and I didn't want a spacer between the bracket & frame.

dmsfrr....If I were you, I would get rid of that piece of scrap iron bracket and get the original T-bird idler arm power steering bracket if you can. You are going to have trouble holding that bracket to the frame no matter what you try to do. It does not have enough surface area at the bottom to give it leverage and stability.
I would also urge against using polyurethane shock bushings for the power steering ram cylinder. The rubber bushings squeeze and flex a great deal more than you realize when making turns. Using harder bushings like polyurethane will stiffen the assembly, reducing shock absorbing quality and flexibility and place a great deal more tension and compression between the bracket and frame (causing MORE stress at the bolts). You don't want that when "crush-nuts" are being used.
The original T-bird bracket has the round recesses in the bottom flange to accommodate the bottom of the crush nuts.

[Daves55Sedan]

Here is a brand new kit for a '55/56 ram cylinder I bought many years ago.
The rubber bushings and inner washer have 1/2 inch hole so they can slide onto the ram cylinder shaft. The rubber bushings are each 5/8 inch thick and 1-1/4 inch outside diameter, but that expands when the nut is tightened at the end of the shaft. The washers are both 1-9/16 inch outside diameter.
The small end of the ram cylinder shaft (where the washers and bushings go) is one inch long (not including the threaded end) which is a little over 3/4 inch long.
When you first assemble the ram cylinder together with the kit into the idler arm bracket, it will look like there is barely room to put on the first nut. Once you get the nut started on the threads, turn the nut to crush the rubber bushings down enough to get the locknut on securely.


JWA, if your measurements do not match the ones I have given on your ram cylinder shaft, you probably have a ram cylinder that came off a later year car.

[Daves55Sedan]

Also, as I mentioned before, the '55/56 bushing kit did not come with the steel tube sleeve as they were not originally designed for them.
The 1957 and later ram cylinder did have a factory installed sleeve which was an improvement (protecting the end of the ram cylinder shaft in the event the rubber bushings were damaged). So be warned that if your ram cylinder is a '55/56 unit, you must be diligent in inspecting the bushings periodically for wear and replacing them before they get too bad OR the ram cylinder shaft will rest and slide on the cast iron idler arm bracket, damaging the shaft.
More info: Fomoco installed a ram cylinder with an external copper tubing return line up until about mid 1955. The late '55 through 1956 ram cylinder had this return passage internal to the unit. The 1957 cylinders all had internal return passages but the cylinder was a completely different unit that could easily be differentiated from the older '55/56 cylinders just by eyesight.

[KULTULZ]

The biggest problem here is the lack of quality aftermarket parts/kits and wear/lack of effective repair/proper maintenance over the years.

It is just like me, completely worn out...

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by Daves55Sedan

dmsfrr....If I were you, I would get rid of that piece of scrap iron bracket and get the original T-bird idler arm power steering bracket if you can. .....

scrap iron bracket??? I'm confused, it's a one piece cast part that looks to be oem Ford, see previous photos on pg 2, comment #23.
Does the correct T-bird bracket have a recess for the crush-nut? You mentioned earlier that the full-sized car bracket has that recess.

In any case I'll likely leave it alone unless it breaks again.
As of now the frame is welded back together with a nut the next size larger & matching flat washer welded inside the frame, for the bottom bolt hole.

.

[Jwawhite]

K, that's how I repaired my C5 radiator support Assy., used a bolt and nut to start the crushing process inside the frame...
dmsffr, my bracket on the bottom side of my frame does not fit flush, I can see the heads of the crush nuts.
Dave, I measured last week when the issue arose from a kit ...junk aftermarket, obviously would not work. My threads are 7/16 x 20, the useable shaft space is 1" and the shaft space at the bracket is in great shape. I ordered the complete kit from Casio and should be here by Fri....Coffee and Cars on Sat., hopefully.
My shaft does have a slow drip issue, wonder why it's over $300 to rebuild one? The Ram has to be cut open to replace an inner seal! The outer parts can be replaced but I think I'll wait for a time when I can use a car rack. Also I understand it's difficult to r&r the the seal on shaft end.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by dmsfrr

...scrap iron bracket???

I'm confused, but I believe it's a one piece cast oem Ford part, see previous photos on pg 2, reply #23.

You have the correct bracket.

Three main styles for this period-

54/56 FORD
57/59 FORD
55/57 BIRD

As long as a previous owner did not swap or switch.

[KULTULZ]

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Originally Posted by KULTULZ

The biggest problem here is the lack of quality aftermarket parts/kits and wear/lack of effective repair/proper maintenance over the years.

It is just like me, completely worn out...

Let me expound... ...on this statement-

The aftermarket 53/56 kits are not correct. They have incorrectly shaped insulators (appears to be from later 57/ FORD kit). The early insulators are/were conical in shape to fit withing the washers (which are not included) and special relief(s) in the 3351 bracket to control insulator movement.

57/ FORD (not BIRD) was changed in that there was a sleeve used to better control insulator movement.

Shown below are three present day vendor kits. The insulators are incorrect on the 53/56 FORD - 55/57 BIRD kit(s).

One vendor has two separate style kits shown with the same PN. If they don't know, how are you supposed to know?

[Jwawhite]

Here's what is in the CASCO Kit, apparently covers 55 and 56 which have different sized shafts and grommets. Mine I believe are the upper washers, grommets, lower left nut and lock washer. Who needs the other parts, Dave?
Whoops held iPad wrong way!

[Daves55Sedan]

Originally Posted by Jwawhite

Here's what is in the CASCO Kit, apparently covers 55 and 56 which have different sized shafts and grommets. Mine I believe are the upper washers, grommets, lower left nut and lock washer. Who needs the other parts, Dave?
Whoops held iPad wrong way!

If that Casco kit is available, GET IT. It contains all the rubber bushings, washers and nuts for both ends of the ram cylinder.

[Jwawhite]

Installed, Cars and Coffee tomorrow!
Put a Jam Nut on the end, this Unit shakes a bit with engine on and wheel to L and R stops.
Silicone grease on grommets.

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by Jwawhite

... this Unit shakes a bit with engine on and wheel to L and R stops. ...

Are you saying the rod moves end to end, more than the least little bit?
The new rubber bushings should be squeezed a fair amount when they're installed. You may need to add a couple washers to get them very snug on the cast bracket.

[Jwawhite]

It jiggles, if the threaded part is 3/4", about half ? is used visualizing from outer washer to stud end. Do grommets absorb the Ram action? They are bulging a bit from 90 edge now.
Think more?

[dmsfrr]

It's a *you've got to be there* sort of thing but the rod shouldn't jiggle or move by grabbing / pulling it with your hands, except the very slightest amount.
Both grommets should have a good bulge in their sides.
.

[Jwawhite]

Have you looked "at the action" with car motor on and turning steering wheel full stop L and R? , while on stands? What year is your T Bird? I have some room left on threads to tighten more.

Do you know a Fred Sanchez in your area?

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by Jwawhite

Have you looked "at the action" with car motor on and turning steering wheel full stop L and R? , while on stands? What year is your T Bird? I have some room left on threads to tighten more.

Do you know a Fred Sanchez in your area?

No "action", it's a project '55 that isn't quite together yet. A couple more turns should be ok.
The name Fred Sanchez doesn't sound familiar.

.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Jwawhite

Here's what is in the CASCO Kit, apparently covers 55 and 56 which have different sized shafts and grommets. Mine I believe are the upper washers, grommets, lower left nut and lock washer.

Who needs the other parts, Dave?

You Do!

Now this is a complete quality kit!

Originally Posted by Jwawhite

Installed, Cars and Coffee tomorrow!

Put a Jam Nut on the end, this Unit shakes a bit with engine on and wheel to L and R stops.

Silicone grease on grommets.

Originally Posted by dmsfrr

It's a *you've got to be there* sort of thing but the rod shouldn't jiggle or move by grabbing / pulling it with your hands, except the very slightest amount.

Both grommets should have a good bulge in their sides.

The retaining nut(s) needs to be tightened (torque value in SM). There should be very slight movement (insulators) under pressure.

On your install (3rd attachment), the PAL NUT is not on the threads far enough. It could fall (vibrate) off.

My old lady tightens mine...

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by dmsfrr

The blind nut inside the frame pulled thru and someone tack welded the casting to the frame, which of course didn't stay put at all. Had to open up the frame to put in a replacement nut.

Originally Posted by Daves55Sedan 02-08-2018 Post #17

dmsfrr...

The power steering idler arm bracket is a cast iron idler arm and ram cylinder holding bracket all in one piece.

One bolt to hold the ram cylinder shaft end is not enough. That's partly why it failed along with someone trying to attempt to weld cast iron.

The 55/57 BIRD 3351 MTG BRACKET only utilized a single cap screw at the bottom of the rail, the FORD applications two. Why I would not know.

Same amount of stress exerted (allowing for vehicle weight).

Fomoco made at least three different power steering idler arm brackets in the mid fifties. I have a couple spare ones out in the garage with a 100% complete refurbished '55 power steering setup.

The brackets I have are not correct for the full size Fords. Maybe T-bird, or truck?

Shown below is the early (pre-57) FORD bracket (1st photo) with the reliefs for the nut inserts as you described previously.

Also shown is he 55/57 BIRD bracket (2nd photo).

That CASCO kit (combined 3C590 and 3C589) is worth it's weight in gold...

[Daves55Sedan]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

Shown below is the early (pre-57) FORD bracket with the reliefs for the nut inserts as you described previously. Also shown is he 55/57 BIRD.

That is correct. The first picture shows the factory bracket for full-size cars and wagons. The second picture shows the bracket for T-Birds.


dmsfrr NOTICE that what you have on your Bird is a factory manual steering idler arm bracket and a separate cast iron bracket to hold the ram cylinder shaft end. It appears to be a factory Bird bracket with the idler arm bushing collar cut-off of it. Having these separate like this could result in mis-alignment of the ram cylinder with relation to it's proper position on the frame. Do the factory holes in the bracket and frame line up???

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by Daves55Sedan

..... The second picture shows the bracket for T-Birds.

dmsfrr NOTICE that what you have on your Bird is a factory manual steering idler arm bracket and a separate cast iron bracket to hold the ram cylinder shaft end. It appears to be a factory Bird bracket with the idler arm bushing collar cut-off of it. Having these separate like this could result in mis-alignment of the ram cylinder with relation to it's proper position on the frame. Do the factory holes in the bracket and frame line up???

Yes all three mounting holes line up.

I'm confused. The PS/idler arm bracket on this '55 Bird is one cast piece (photos below) and looks just like the Macs image that KULTULZ attached above, and also at this link....
https://www.macsautoparts.com/ford_t...g-1955-57.html

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Daves55Sedan

dmsfrr NOTICE that what you have on your Bird is a factory manual steering idler arm bracket and a separate cast iron bracket to hold the ram cylinder shaft end. It appears to be a factory Bird bracket with the idler arm bushing collar cut-off of it.

Having these separate like this could result in mis-alignment of the ram cylinder with relation to it's proper position on the frame. Do the factory holes in the bracket and frame line up???

Dave-

He has the correct MTG BRKT (3351) for the 55/57 BIRD. Go back and check his posts/photos.

[KULTULZ]

Hey dmsfrr-

I imagine you frequent BIRD only forums a lot. Have you noticed any other 55/57 BIRD failures/complaints such as this?

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

Hey dmsfrr-
I imagine you frequent BIRD only forums a lot. Have you noticed any other 55/57 BIRD failures/complaints such as this?

The problems that seem to come up most often...
running too hot, ignition and carburation/fuel delivery.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by dmsfrr

The problems that seem to come up most often...

running too hot, ignition and carburation/fuel delivery.

...hmmpf...

I thought it would be more of a common problem with just one fastener at the bottom of the rail.

Guess you just lucked out...

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

Guess you just lucked out...

Sure, I feel very privileged. (haha)

It might have something to do with the car having a replacement oem frame.

.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by dmsfrr

Sure, I feel very privileged. (haha)

It might have something to do with the car having a replacement oem frame.

.

...mmm...

Forgot that little factoid...

[Merc Cruzer]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

I forgot to mention this, but there is a replacement fastener whereas you don't have to go into the rail itself-

Where can you find the "crush nut" fastener?

[KULTULZ]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Originally Posted by Merc Cruzer

Where can you find the "crush nut" fastener?

I've seen them listed on a couple of vendor sites.

I don't know if it is allowed to mention them here but if you want I can PM you a vendor.

[Merc Cruzer]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

I've seen them listed on a couple of vendor sites.

I don't know if it is allowed to mention them here but if you want I can PM you a vendor.

Lultulz,

Yes PM me the vender.

Thank You,

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by merc cruzer

lultulz,

yes pm me the vender.

Thank you,

pm sent!

[Merc Cruzer]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

pm sent!

KULTULZ,

Received the PM with the sites, thank you. I installed the factory PS on my 53 Merc last year and could not for the life of me find the crush nuts. I had to improvise by taking a fender "J nut" and cutting of the bottom piece and then soldering it onto a coat hanger and then threading it threw a bolt hole in the frame and and down to the hole in the frame where the crush nut would go. Then I mounted the bracket with the other two bolts and then very carefully threaded the bolt up through the hole into the nut. It works fine but I always wanted to have the correct insert in the event I do it again. When I was looking all I found were Sert's and they are round, and from the feedback I got, they didn't hold all that well anyway. Thanks again.

Merc Cruzer

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Merc Cruzer

KULTULZ,

Received the PM with the sites, thank you.

I installed the factory PS on my 53 Merc last year and could not for the life of me find the crush nuts. I had to improvise by taking a fender "J nut" and cutting of the bottom piece and then soldering it onto a coat hanger and then threading it threw a bolt hole in the frame and and down to the hole in the frame where the crush nut would go. Then I mounted the bracket with the other two bolts and then very carefully threaded the bolt up through the hole into the nut. It works fine but I always wanted to have the correct insert in the event I do it again.

When I was looking all I found were Sert's and they are round, and from the feedback I got, they didn't hold all that well anyway. Thanks again.

Merc Cruzer

They were discontinued by FORD some years back and were used in multiple applications,

If you ever need one again and are hard to find, just GOOGLE 375474-S8.

Here is a source for all kinds of retainers- https://www.amkproducts.com/Catalog_PDF/56-73.pdf

[Jwawhite]

Chevy Dealers have them in stock for Corvettes.

[Merc Cruzer]

Originally Posted by Jwawhite

Chevy Dealers have them in stock for Corvettes.

I tried to find the nut locally, so I stopped in the local Chevy dealer, parts department, this afternoon and took them a picture of the "crush nut' and it was like living the add from Rock Auto. Bottom line, since I didn't have a Chevy part number, they had no way of looking it up. I tried their body repair department and again no luck....the manager at least knew what it was.

You wouldn't by chance have a part number, or a year of application?

Thank you,

Merc Cruzer

[Jwawhite]

https://www.amazon.com/GM-11561407-N.../dp/B0172HBF7A

Here ya go.

[Merc Cruzer]

Originally Posted by Jwawhite

https://www.amazon.com/GM-11561407-N.../dp/B0172HBF7A

Here ya go.

Jwawhite and Kultulz,

Thank you for the information. I decided to go with NPD due to ease of ordering and shipping, and they had them in stock for Ford / Mercury application.

Merc Cruzer

[Merc Cruzer]

Finally got them installed...

[KULTULZ]

Looks awfully professional...

[Merc Cruzer]

The instructions tell you the nut, bolt and washer "tool" is only good for a couple of installations and they are not kidding. Just one more thing I learned to do that I probably will never do again. "All this knowledge and no where to use it"

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Merc Cruzer

The instructions tell you the nut, bolt and washer "tool" is only good for a couple of installations and they are not kidding.

Just one more thing I learned to do that I probably will never do again. "All this knowledge and no where to use it"

No, you may be able to help someone else down the line.