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Old 10-17-2015, 09:07 AM   #1
mrtexas
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Being the novice car painter I am I didn't order enough paint for the 3 cars I either painted or had painted. Next time I will order at least 2 gallons of paint or 2x what I think I could possibly need. I bought my paint from TCP Global because they supposedly have their own custom color matches for Ford paint. Their restoration shop line of paint is also 25% of the cost of PPG concepts. I have also talked with their paint expert "Johny paint chip" in the past and was pleased with his knowledge.

Car #1 was my 29 roadster. I ordered PPG concepts rose beige circa 2006 from TCP. Thru inexperience I didn't put 4 coats of paint needed to cover the primer. I had to reshoot one panel and then the color didn't match. I sent in a panel for them to match in 2015 and ordered up a quart of Restoration shop single stage urethane. I re-shot a couple panels. It was a good match but not perfect. The slight difference would only be noticed if I pointed it out to someone. I'm very happy with the result.

Car #2 was my 36 woodie. I ordered a gallon of bambalino blue restoration shop paint and the painter ran out. I ordered another gallon a few months later and the match was perfect.

Car #3 was my 28 roadster pickup. I ordered a gallon of paint of rock moss green. I discovered the passenger door was rusted out and I did a terrible job trying to put in a patch panel. My painter shot the car and then I learned the door I repaired didn't fit. I didn't check fit before the car was painted. So I bought a repro door but the gallon was used up. I ordered a quart. It didn't match and was way off. Rock moss green is dark blue green. The quart was dark green. So I sent off a windshield stantion to get color matched. I paint TCP $60 for matching. I shot the door and the match was off by a mile, again dark green instead of dark blue green. I then cut out a square of the original door I botched the match on thinking well the stantion may have been slightly off color. I bought another quart and paid another $60. The result was the same, another quart of dark green paint. So I ordered a gallon of their unmatched paint thinking well the match was off because of a quart vs a gallon. Wrong again. I contacted TCP with the story and sent them a photo of the bad match and said I thought they owed me a quart of paint that matched. They said blend the paint. IMHO the match was so bad blending wouldn't work. They said they would match again(for the third time) for at my expense. At this point I gave up on them on them. I asked my painter to have his usual supplier do a match of Dupont paint to the complete old door. I just got word that my painter sprayed it out and the local supplier nailed it. I'll see as I get the paint Monday.

Car #4 was a 63 Corvette. I let the painter buy the paint. When it was done I got a quart of paint for touch up. Turns out I needed the quart. A local repair shop scratched up my flawless and expensive paint job when they installed a new 5 speed transmission for me. I was speechless. I touched up the scratches with basecoat but still haven't sprayed the clear.

Car #5 was a 49 woodie hot rod. Car came painted and a quart for repairs. I'll buy a quart of activator and do a couple touch ups. Car was supposedly "finished" but had a small problem with steering I thought I could fix easily. The problem turned out to be major and I spent 6 months fixing it. It didn't cost a lot to fix but a lot of time. This is the car that convinced me I don't want another project.

Lessons learned
TCP has terrible customer service and their paint matching is hit or miss

Buy 2x of paint you need so you don't run out.

Be sure all your body parts fit before you paint them.

Next time(and I hope there isn't a next time as I don't intend to restore another car) I may order a quart of TCPGlobal paint, have a local supplier match it, and then get my gallon from the local guy.

I won't buy another car that needs work. I enjoy driving them more than working on them!

Get a second opinion before buying an antique car.

I'm looking at a fresh restoration of a 55 Corvette as my next purchase. Car is not available from the Canadian snowbird until April as he is snowbirding in the States until then. This will also give me time to sell 2 more cars before purchasing another. He might also be interested in a trade. Pay more and get one finished!

Finish the car you have before buying another one. Owning 5 cars at once overwhelmed me with repairs as I learned any antique car is a work in progress even if it is "finished"! I've had as many as 4 out of 5 cars out of service at one time. I have 3 out of commission now.

2 antique cars owned at one time might be better for me.

It has been a long lesson for me to decide what I want in an antique car. I've decided I really want one that doesn't need work. Let someone else do the work and then I can enjoy it.

Well I will write the manager of TCPGlobal and report my experience with their color matching. I'll also give them a sample of their 2 matches and what the local supplier did as evidence. Nothing will probably come of it but he may not know what is going on with customer service.
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Old 10-17-2015, 09:55 AM   #2
rotorwrench
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If a person added up what it cost them to restore a car and compares that to the asking price of the same car already in good condition, they would probably still restore the car. I think human nature just overlooks the amount of work and money they will spend when they see the high asking prices for restored cars as compared to the price of an unrestored car. I agree with you to some level in that after a person has restored a vehicle or two, you start to see how the high price of a restored car is really not too far out of line. The school of hard knocks is a good teacher. I still find that I really like the search for the parts and the labor of love to bring these old cars back to life. Folks lose interest quicker though if they can't jump in the car a drive it around.

I learned how to spray paint on helicopters. I was fortunate that the first one I ever did was painted with a mixing white color that was easy to match. I learned how much I needed for the job and I also learned that you really should have a local supplier when your calculations go wrong. Some of the current paints I use now are impossible to source locally so I have to order 2X what I need as you mentioned. If you don't, things can sometimes go wrong that were not anticipated and you need more paint for repairs or replacements just as you mentioned. Some of these paints can get over $500 a gallon pretty quick so a person has to knuckle under and pay the price. This has become a very expensive undertaking compared to 10 or 20 years ago. I thought is was expensive back then!
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Old 10-17-2015, 10:44 AM   #3
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Yes, as you get older "buying one done" makes more sense if you can afford it. However, I think there are folks out there who don't mind having an unfinished car just sitting in their garage. It gives them a certain sense of PRIDE OF OWNERSHIP even though they know, deep down, the car will never be finished in their own lifetime.
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Old 10-17-2015, 11:30 AM   #4
mrtexas
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I bought the TCPGlobal paint because is is $140 a gallon instead of $450 a gallon. Didn't buy PPG primer either. I went with Southern Polyurethane primers. Went with Kirker black. Didn't think it prudent to make mistakes with $450 a gallon paint.

I also found out about the demand for Model As as that age group is now in their 80s and 90s. Not a lot of demand and I waited almost 3 months before I got a call after advertising on ebay, craigslist, and hemmings. And my 29 roadster was a bargain. No other ones out there with a fresh restoration for $18k. This will sure temper my offers on other cars where the liking crowd is getting pretty old. I'd say 50s and early 60s cars and older are having a decrease in demand due to deaths. Don't see many cars older than 1955 on any of the auctions.

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Old 10-17-2015, 12:38 PM   #5
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After owning a model A for some time I could see why folks couldn't get much money for them back when they were gently used cars. As time has gone by, they have increased in price quite a bit from what they were back in the 70s when I was getting into them but I agree that you can put a lot more money in one than you can ever get back when its time to part.

I am building one now that I don't think I will ever sell. It's kind of a bitsa 29 AV8 roadster project but I'm putting some of my aviation electrical skills into it. I want a good electrical system that I can count on this time plus an engine that will make the car go faster than I want to go. It will be my 4 wheeled bugs in the teeth motor cycle type of car.
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Old 10-17-2015, 04:40 PM   #6
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[QUOTE=mrtexas;1173873]Being the novice car painter I am I didn't order enough paint for the 3 cars I either painted or had painted. Next time I will order at least 2 gallons of paint or 2x what I think I could possibly need...

Be sure to mix all paint together in one bucket before you use it. You will NEVER match it exactly.

Been there done that.
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Old 10-17-2015, 07:11 PM   #7
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All good thoughts. I have two As that I bought restored. Far from perfect, but good drivers, fairly cheap and they have been a lot of fun. I was glad I bought them as I did. As you said, they all need some work.

I have probably gone even crazier and have just bought two V8s. One is an original car and will stay that way. The other is a restored pickup that I just had to have. Both from the same owner selling at the same time. My big prob is where to store them? That may end up costing more than I thought.

I bought them well, I think, but not super cheap. V8s are a whole order of magnitude more expensive than As and probably at least 2x as complicated. Let's see how I make out.

I would love to restore a car some day, but I am still working, so I figured that I would never finish.

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Old 10-17-2015, 07:43 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 19Fordy View Post
Yes, as you get older "buying one done" makes more sense if you can afford it. However, I think there are folks out there who don't mind having an unfinished car just sitting in their garage. It gives them a certain sense of PRIDE OF OWNERSHIP even though they know, deep down, the car will never be finished in their own lifetime.
I am afraid I have become like this. I have half a dozen cars that need very little work, maybe a months worth, to be on the street. But I have lost my desire to drive so I just go from one to the other, slowly working on them. Its my hobby to work on them. I don't care if I ever drive them.
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Old 10-17-2015, 10:26 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by mhsprecher View Post
All good thoughts. I have two As that I bought restored. Far from perfect, but good drivers, fairly cheap and they have been a lot of fun. I was glad I bought them as I did. As you said, they all need some work.

I have probably gone even crazier and have just bought two V8s. One is an original car and will stay that way. The other is a restored pickup that I just had to have. Both from the same owner selling at the same time. My big prob is where to store them? That may end up costing more than I thought. I bought them well, I think, but not super cheap. V8s are a whole order of magnitude more expensive than As and probably at least 2x as complicated. Let's see how I make out. I would love to restore a car sometime, but I am still working, so I figured that I would never finish.
I store mine on 4 post lifts. My garage has 12 foot ceilings.
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Old 10-18-2015, 03:25 AM   #10
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I would need to raise the roof on my garage to do that. Something to consider, but I live in a historic district, which would make that difficult.

I have been lucky as my sister-in-law will let me keep one in her garage a half an hour away for free! Not too close, but not too far, either. Half of my problem solved! My wife suggested asking her. Lucky is the guy with a smart, understanding wife.
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