The Ford Barn

Certimafied · 11-07-2021, 06:49 PM

Got another question for y'all. I drove my A the most its been driven in probably 25 years this weekend. I actually took it to an all Italian car show and I think it got more attention in the side lot than any of the Italian autos in the main lot! Anyhow its lean on the drivers side has gotten noticeably worse. You cant even see the top of the drivers front tire now its tucked into the fender. Which actually looks kind of good but I know its not right. I spent some time under the car wiggling jacking and prying on things and I think I have pretty much determined the spring is sagging. didnt see any play in the shackles or bushing and everything is tight. The axle is at the same height side to side but the body definitely is not.

Ive searched the forum and read my Les Andrews book some and Im just about sold on getting a front spring from a-springs.com. However I cant help but ask some questions first. In the Andrews bible there is a description of disassembling the spring pack and arching the leaves.

Does it make since that the leafs would sag on one side and not the other?Maybe I am over looking something else that could be the culprit.

What is the purpose of this arching procedure is this to correct a weak sagging spring? If so is that even Worth the effort, seems like the metal would just be fatigued and go flat sooner.

Not ever servicing a vehicle with this transverse leaf set up, would it be advisable to change front and rear at the same time? I know I wouldn't change just one spring on my old cars/pickups in the rear. I don't want to cheap out on anything but there are a handful of other repairs that arose this weekend and my wallet unfortunately is only so thick! Why wasn't I born independently wealthy?!

Any pointers, and suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

nkaminar · 11-07-2021, 07:02 PM

There may be something else going on. If one side is down more than the other I would look to the spring mount in the middle of the car. Check things like the plate that sits under the springs, the center bolt in the spring pack, and the U bolts and nuts. Has the mounting gotten loose or is the frame worn funny.

If the fenders are almost touching the top of the wheels then you definitely need to get new springs or re arch the old ones. If this has been happening quickly then the spring steel may not be tempered properly. If it has happened over 90 years then OK, you can probably re arch the springs. The steel will relax a little so I would over bend the spring leaves when re arching.

J Franklin · 11-07-2021, 07:07 PM

It is your choice, but new springs may cause problems also depending on how they were made. Re-arching, if done properly, should last your lifetime.

MickyD · 11-07-2021, 07:09 PM

There are others that know more about it than me. From what I have read because we enter the car so much more on one side than the other, and sit on that side more, it would have a tendency to sag some.. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

Certimafied · 11-07-2021, 07:29 PM

nkaminer, its dark and cold now. but I will definitely check out the mountings tomorrow. From the looks of the car overall I would not be too surprised if this is the original spring if not it was replaced decades ago. Luckily its not touching the fender, not even when I jump on the running board but when your standing to the side and look there is no gap between tire and edge of drivers fender and probably about an inch or so on the passengers side. you can tell the body sheet metal under the rad is sloped compared to the axle when looking directly at the car from the front.

So JFranklin, the arching procedure is to "restore" a sagging spring pack. Thanks for that clarification.

MickyD That was my initial thought, I know Im usually riding solo so its only me in the car wearing out just the left front corner. Just wasn't sure that was a possibility or not.

Thanks!

J Franklin · 11-07-2021, 07:55 PM

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To see a relaxed (sagging) spring look at the shackles. A wornout spring allows the shackles to touch the axles or be close.

Certimafied · 11-07-2021, 07:59 PM

Yes, they are very close to the axle I did notice that for sure!

Im still going to double check all my mountings and stuff. If im going to order parts I want them all ordered and coming in at the same time if I can help it!

WHN · 11-07-2021, 08:21 PM

My normal spring comment goes like this. You have been sitting watching TV in your favorite chair for 90 plus years 24 7 365. What do you think that chairs springs are going to look like.

I would replace at least the front spring with a new USA made correct spring along with new shackles. Most of the old cars I have been involved with sag on the drivers side. New springs should fix that. I would not waste my time trying to rebuild a worn out spring. One less thing to worry about, one more thing off the to do list.

Stingray70 · 11-07-2021, 08:51 PM

I just replaced my front spring with a new one from a-springs. It fit perfect and the top leaf is already beveled. I chose to take it apart, grind off all the sharp edges, lube, and paint it before installing.

alexiskai · 11-07-2021, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Certimafied

Would it be advisable to change front and rear at the same time?

Changing the rear is a more significant operation than the front. Most authorities recommend you purchase a spreader before tackling the rear. There are folks who do it without, but it requires dropping the rear end with the spring still on it. When you do that, you're rolling the dice that the center bolt will hold until you can get some C-clamps on the spring assembly.

I personally wouldn't change either the front or rear spring except "for cause," i.e., to fix a specific, known problem. Sounds like you have one on the front at least. Check the angle of the shackles on the rear.

Certimafied · 11-07-2021, 09:12 PM

Good input you guys! Im sold on getting a new spring and shackles.

WHN Im skilled an willing enough to rebuild the spring, but I always seem short on time to work on my projects! I like pulling the old and installing the new when possible!

Thanks for the feedback Stingray70, I was reading some good stuff about a-springs on this forum. Sounds like the way to go.

alexiskai, if it aint broke don't fix it! With that description of the rear spring ill start with the front and see where I end up after, haha!

Certimafied · 11-07-2021, 10:01 PM

Stingray70, Did your spring come with bushings installed? Did you have to ream them out or anything?

Kevin in NJ · 11-08-2021, 07:53 AM

So keep in mind, if your springs are working properly the car will not be drivable above about 25 MPH without proper working shocks.

You hit a bump and the car feels like it is going all over the place and not on the road. Scary feeling actually. Drove like that once for a local test drive after rebuilding the springs and never again. Came back home and finished the shock rebuild.

Anyone driving over 25 without shocks have springs that need attention.

Certimafied · 11-08-2021, 09:02 AM

Thanks Kevin, Ill keep that in mind. My shocks are coming up for rebuild, I at least pulled them off drained them soaked them with penetrant cleaned again and then refilled with glycerin. They all seem to have a dampening effect, maybe not as good as they once were but they were all doing something. The fordor did great I was cruising at some points around 45-50 no problem. It was wondering a bit (very manageable though) but it was so windy and I've got a bit of excessive play in the box I think that was my issue. All those big flat surfaces you can feel the wind big time, felt like I was in a box truck at times!

Thats brings to mind another question about shocks. I noticed I have some mixed matched shocks. I think I had 2 or 3 different brands if I remember right. Should I try to get all the same brand or at least the front 2 the same and back 2 the same?

alexiskai · 11-08-2021, 10:11 AM

With shocks it's more about performance than brand. Somebody once posted about a test you can do with shocks, where you tie a weight to the arm and time how long it takes to move through a certain distance. The idea is that you want the shocks that are paired L and R to be calibrated the same. Not sure where I saw that.

Chris Haynes · 11-08-2021, 12:20 PM

My car is a driver rather than a restoration. I chose to use the Super Slider springs from Posies. http://www.posiesrodsandcustoms.com/...slide_springs/

alexiskai · 11-08-2021, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Haynes

My car is a driver rather than a restoration. I chose to use the Super Slider springs from Posies. http://www.posiesrodsandcustoms.com/...slide_springs/

Do those come with the bushings?

Stingray70 · 11-08-2021, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Certimafied

Stingray70, Did your spring come with bushings installed? Did you have to ream them out or anything?

The bushings are pre installed. Another thing I liked about it. He sends you a spare center bolt (you will get paint on the one that comes installed). He also will send you a set of shackles and spring perch bushings if you want for a small fee. Good idea to replace them while you are at it.

I used the graphite impregnated paint between the leaves after grinding the lower edges and black rustoleum "farm implement" paint after I reassembled it.

Chris Haynes · 11-08-2021, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexiskai

Do those come with the bushings?

Yes.
I forgot to mention that you can buy Posies from Speedway and save $$$ on shipping.

Certimafied · 11-08-2021, 05:09 PM

Hhmmm... Maybe im Glad I didnt call and order that spring from a-springs today.

My car is in good shape sporting an older patina'd resto. I don't plan on restoring I just want to get it up and running safe and reliably so it can be enjoyed. I do plan on selling at some point so I don't want to do anything that will alter its original condition or value. Though the more I do and drive it the less I am willing to sell lol!

Are the Posies a no-no to the hardcore purists? I don't think im studied enough to know if that would alter value any.

in any case with either spring is reaming needed? Ive got a distributor rebuild kit and kingpins and bushings coming and will be getting those reamers, I thought I saw something about reaming the spring shackle bushing too?

11-07-2021, 06:49 PM	#1
Certimafied Member Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: Belmont N.C. Posts: 85	Front spring arching and replacement? Got another question for y'all. I drove my A the most its been driven in probably 25 years this weekend. I actually took it to an all Italian car show and I think it got more attention in the side lot than any of the Italian autos in the main lot! Anyhow its lean on the drivers side has gotten noticeably worse. You cant even see the top of the drivers front tire now its tucked into the fender. Which actually looks kind of good but I know its not right. I spent some time under the car wiggling jacking and prying on things and I think I have pretty much determined the spring is sagging. didnt see any play in the shackles or bushing and everything is tight. The axle is at the same height side to side but the body definitely is not. Ive searched the forum and read my Les Andrews book some and Im just about sold on getting a front spring from a-springs.com. However I cant help but ask some questions first. In the Andrews bible there is a description of disassembling the spring pack and arching the leaves. Does it make since that the leafs would sag on one side and not the other?Maybe I am over looking something else that could be the culprit. What is the purpose of this arching procedure is this to correct a weak sagging spring? If so is that even Worth the effort, seems like the metal would just be fatigued and go flat sooner. Not ever servicing a vehicle with this transverse leaf set up, would it be advisable to change front and rear at the same time? I know I wouldn't change just one spring on my old cars/pickups in the rear. I don't want to cheap out on anything but there are a handful of other repairs that arose this weekend and my wallet unfortunately is only so thick! Why wasn't I born independently wealthy?! Any pointers, and suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

11-07-2021, 07:02 PM	#2
nkaminar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 3,897	Re: Front spring arching and replacement? There may be something else going on. If one side is down more than the other I would look to the spring mount in the middle of the car. Check things like the plate that sits under the springs, the center bolt in the spring pack, and the U bolts and nuts. Has the mounting gotten loose or is the frame worn funny. If the fenders are almost touching the top of the wheels then you definitely need to get new springs or re arch the old ones. If this has been happening quickly then the spring steel may not be tempered properly. If it has happened over 90 years then OK, you can probably re arch the springs. The steel will relax a little so I would over bend the spring leaves when re arching. __________________ A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.

11-07-2021, 07:07 PM	#3
J Franklin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oregon Posts: 5,962	Re: Front spring arching and replacement? It is your choice, but new springs may cause problems also depending on how they were made. Re-arching, if done properly, should last your lifetime.

11-07-2021, 07:09 PM	#4
MickyD Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Welcome NC Posts: 207	Re: Front spring arching and replacement? There are others that know more about it than me. From what I have read because we enter the car so much more on one side than the other, and sit on that side more, it would have a tendency to sag some.. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

11-07-2021, 07:29 PM	#5
Certimafied Member Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: Belmont N.C. Posts: 85	Re: Front spring arching and replacement? nkaminer, its dark and cold now. but I will definitely check out the mountings tomorrow. From the looks of the car overall I would not be too surprised if this is the original spring if not it was replaced decades ago. Luckily its not touching the fender, not even when I jump on the running board but when your standing to the side and look there is no gap between tire and edge of drivers fender and probably about an inch or so on the passengers side. you can tell the body sheet metal under the rad is sloped compared to the axle when looking directly at the car from the front. So JFranklin, the arching procedure is to "restore" a sagging spring pack. Thanks for that clarification. MickyD That was my initial thought, I know Im usually riding solo so its only me in the car wearing out just the left front corner. Just wasn't sure that was a possibility or not. Thanks!

11-07-2021, 07:55 PM	#6
J Franklin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oregon Posts: 5,962	Re: Front spring arching and replacement? Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) To see a relaxed (sagging) spring look at the shackles. A wornout spring allows the shackles to touch the axles or be close.

11-07-2021, 07:59 PM	#7
Certimafied Member Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: Belmont N.C. Posts: 85	Re: Front spring arching and replacement? Yes, they are very close to the axle I did notice that for sure! Im still going to double check all my mountings and stuff. If im going to order parts I want them all ordered and coming in at the same time if I can help it!

11-07-2021, 08:21 PM	#8
WHN Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Location: Connecticut Shoreline Posts: 1,823	Re: Front spring arching and replacement? My normal spring comment goes like this. You have been sitting watching TV in your favorite chair for 90 plus years 24 7 365. What do you think that chairs springs are going to look like. I would replace at least the front spring with a new USA made correct spring along with new shackles. Most of the old cars I have been involved with sag on the drivers side. New springs should fix that. I would not waste my time trying to rebuild a worn out spring. One less thing to worry about, one more thing off the to do list.

11-07-2021, 08:51 PM	#9
Stingray70 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: Western NC Posts: 213	Re: Front spring arching and replacement? I just replaced my front spring with a new one from a-springs. It fit perfect and the top leaf is already beveled. I chose to take it apart, grind off all the sharp edges, lube, and paint it before installing. __________________ 1930 Standard Coupe

11-07-2021, 09:12 PM	#11
Certimafied Member Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: Belmont N.C. Posts: 85	Re: Front spring arching and replacement? Good input you guys! Im sold on getting a new spring and shackles. WHN Im skilled an willing enough to rebuild the spring, but I always seem short on time to work on my projects! I like pulling the old and installing the new when possible! Thanks for the feedback Stingray70, I was reading some good stuff about a-springs on this forum. Sounds like the way to go. alexiskai, if it aint broke don't fix it! With that description of the rear spring ill start with the front and see where I end up after, haha!

11-07-2021, 10:01 PM	#12
Certimafied Member Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: Belmont N.C. Posts: 85	Re: Front spring arching and replacement? Stingray70, Did your spring come with bushings installed? Did you have to ream them out or anything?

11-08-2021, 07:53 AM	#13
Kevin in NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South East NJ Posts: 3,398	Re: Front spring arching and replacement? So keep in mind, if your springs are working properly the car will not be drivable above about 25 MPH without proper working shocks. You hit a bump and the car feels like it is going all over the place and not on the road. Scary feeling actually. Drove like that once for a local test drive after rebuilding the springs and never again. Came back home and finished the shock rebuild. Anyone driving over 25 without shocks have springs that need attention.

11-08-2021, 09:02 AM	#14
Certimafied Member Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: Belmont N.C. Posts: 85	Re: Front spring arching and replacement? Thanks Kevin, Ill keep that in mind. My shocks are coming up for rebuild, I at least pulled them off drained them soaked them with penetrant cleaned again and then refilled with glycerin. They all seem to have a dampening effect, maybe not as good as they once were but they were all doing something. The fordor did great I was cruising at some points around 45-50 no problem. It was wondering a bit (very manageable though) but it was so windy and I've got a bit of excessive play in the box I think that was my issue. All those big flat surfaces you can feel the wind big time, felt like I was in a box truck at times! Thats brings to mind another question about shocks. I noticed I have some mixed matched shocks. I think I had 2 or 3 different brands if I remember right. Should I try to get all the same brand or at least the front 2 the same and back 2 the same?

11-08-2021, 10:11 AM	#15
alexiskai Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Mebane NC Posts: 2,353	Re: Front spring arching and replacement? With shocks it's more about performance than brand. Somebody once posted about a test you can do with shocks, where you tie a weight to the arm and time how long it takes to move through a certain distance. The idea is that you want the shocks that are paired L and R to be calibrated the same. Not sure where I saw that.

11-08-2021, 12:20 PM	#16
Chris Haynes Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Camarillo, CA and Pine Grove, CA Posts: 2,832	Re: Front spring arching and replacement? My car is a driver rather than a restoration. I chose to use the Super Slider springs from Posies. http://www.posiesrodsandcustoms.com/...slide_springs/ __________________ 1921 Runabout 1930 Tudor Early 1930 AA Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go?

11-08-2021, 05:09 PM	#20
Certimafied Member Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: Belmont N.C. Posts: 85	Re: Front spring arching and replacement? Hhmmm... Maybe im Glad I didnt call and order that spring from a-springs today. My car is in good shape sporting an older patina'd resto. I don't plan on restoring I just want to get it up and running safe and reliably so it can be enjoyed. I do plan on selling at some point so I don't want to do anything that will alter its original condition or value. Though the more I do and drive it the less I am willing to sell lol! Are the Posies a no-no to the hardcore purists? I don't think im studied enough to know if that would alter value any. in any case with either spring is reaming needed? Ive got a distributor rebuild kit and kingpins and bushings coming and will be getting those reamers, I thought I saw something about reaming the spring shackle bushing too?