Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Late V8 (1954+)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-19-2021, 01:52 AM   #1
JimNNN
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 522
Default 1961 FE exaust manifolds and casting numbers.

Hi. I've decided my 1961 Monterey with the 352 is finally going to get it's cracked pass. side exhaust manifold replaced. I find manifolds online that supposedly will fit my car...and other early 60's/late 50's applications, but none of them have the same casting number as mine. My current (cracked manifold) casting number is 5751204, which doesn't seem to fit the typical Ford numbering scheme ("C" prefix, etc.)



-How much should I pay attention to the casting number?



-Are all pass. side manifolds for 352's from that era going to fit my car?



-My current unit has a heat actuated flapper valve. One of the used ones I'm looking at doesn't have a flapper valve. Would that be a problem using a manifold without a flapper valve on my car?
JimNNN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2021, 06:47 AM   #2
darrell
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: p.e.i.
Posts: 1,060
Default Re: 1961 FE exaust manifolds and casting numbers.

you dont need the flapper if your only driving in warm weather.early manifolds used a flat exhaust pipe gasket.later used a doenut.you can tell by looking im not sure when the change took place.
darrell is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 01-19-2021, 08:21 AM   #3
KULTULZ
Senior Member
 
KULTULZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: IN A 'GALAXIE' FAR FAR AWAY
Posts: 6,475
Post Re: 1961 FE exaust manifolds and casting numbers.

Quote:
... casting number is 5751204, which doesn't seem to fit the typical Ford numbering scheme ("C" prefix, etc.)
That CASTING ID NO is correct as FORD used a seven digit PN system briefly from 1958 to approx 1960.

You want an exact match regarding the heat riser valve as if you change the manifold outlet design, you will most likely have to have the exhaust inlet pipe redone.

1961 MERC 352 2V?
__________________
*****

- WHY IS IT ... -

... that everything you buy in the grocery store is either wrapped in or contained in plastic but the government doesn't want you to carry it out in a plastic bag?

WONDERING IN W(BY GOD)V ...

DIAGNOSED CDO - (OCD In Correct Alphabetical Order)
KULTULZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2021, 09:56 AM   #4
KULTULZ
Senior Member
 
KULTULZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: IN A 'GALAXIE' FAR FAR AWAY
Posts: 6,475
Post Re: 1961 FE exaust manifolds and casting numbers.

Let me try this again as I did not answer all the questions in the first reply-

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimNNN View Post

Hi. I've decided my 1961 Monterey with the 352 is finally going to get it's cracked pass. side exhaust manifold replaced. I find manifolds online that supposedly will fit my car...and other early 60's/late 50's applications, but none of them have the same casting number as mine. My current (cracked manifold) casting number is 5751204, which doesn't seem to fit the typical Ford numbering scheme ("C" prefix, etc.)

-How much should I pay attention to the casting number?
The CASTING ID NO is going to tell you exactly what it is and cast (CASTING DATE CODE). FORD when making progressive component changes, usually (not always) changed the CASTING ID NO but the CASTING DATE will be a dead give-away as to the period.

Quote:
-Are all pass. side manifolds for 352's from that era going to fit my car?
It is best to go by the FORD MPC and OSI CATALOGS (or an HOLLANDER INTERCHANGE MANUAL)


Quote:
-My current unit has a heat actuated flapper valve. One of the used ones I'm looking at doesn't have a flapper valve. Would that be a problem using a manifold without a flapper valve on my car?
It is named a HEAT RISER VALVE and there were different deigns. You also have to make sure the CHOKE STOVE design is the same or you will have to modify the hot air choke tubing.

I do not have access to my 1960-64 LM MPC but the FORD MPC shows C3SZ 9430-A for the FORD application. MERC of this period was an exact duplicate usually. The PN shown is a SERVICE PN and not an ENGINEERING NO.
__________________
*****

- WHY IS IT ... -

... that everything you buy in the grocery store is either wrapped in or contained in plastic but the government doesn't want you to carry it out in a plastic bag?

WONDERING IN W(BY GOD)V ...

DIAGNOSED CDO - (OCD In Correct Alphabetical Order)
KULTULZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2021, 10:55 PM   #5
alt63bird
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: outside Omaha, NE
Posts: 276
Default Re: 1961 FE exaust manifolds and casting numbers.

Are the exhaust outlet flanges flat or tapered to use a 'donut' spacer/gasket? The C3SZ manifolds used the tapered/'donut' spacer while earlier ones typically were flat.

As for the engineering number you found, to confirm what Kultulz sez, those were used '58-early '60: while researching part numbers for Vintage Thunderbird Club International's 1958-1960 Original Factory Specifications manual 15 years ago this drove me nuts!! Thankfully I have a copy of the Master Cross-Reference Parts Catalog with the 7-digit all-number engineering numbers and corresponding Parts & Accessories (P&A) prefix-basic number-suffix ID numbers to compare against. What I found, if I remember correctly, was that the last digit of the engineering/production casting number might be off by 1 or 2 numbers compared to the service part's P&A and corresponding engineering number.
__________________
Alan H. Tast AIA, LEED AP BD+C
Technical Director/Past President-Editor-Publications Director, Vintage Thunderbird Club Int'l. (VTCI)
http://www.vintagethunderbirdclub.net
Author, "Thunderbird 1955-1966" & "Thunderbird 50 Years"
35+ year member, Crown Victoria Ass'n.

Last edited by alt63bird; 01-23-2021 at 01:49 PM.
alt63bird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2021, 04:49 AM   #6
darrell
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: p.e.i.
Posts: 1,060
Default Re: 1961 FE exaust manifolds and casting numbers.

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
tapered to use a donut gasket.what year was the change to donut.i had a lot of these engines back when but i cant remember when the change happened.
darrell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2021, 09:16 AM   #7
KULTULZ
Senior Member
 
KULTULZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: IN A 'GALAXIE' FAR FAR AWAY
Posts: 6,475
Exclamation Re: 1961 FE exaust manifolds and casting numbers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alt63bird View Post

... those were used '58-early '60: while researching part numbers for Vintage Thunderbird Club International's 1958-1960 Original Factory Specifications manual 15 years ago this drove me nuts!!

Thankfully I have a copy of the Master Cross-Refernce Parts Catalog with the 10-digit engineering numbers and corresponding Parts & Accessories (P&A) numbers to compare against.



... you have what ... ?

Where in the world did you come across them? Can you show the PRINT DATE (quarter -year) of the MPC and CROSS-REFERENCE?
__________________
*****

- WHY IS IT ... -

... that everything you buy in the grocery store is either wrapped in or contained in plastic but the government doesn't want you to carry it out in a plastic bag?

WONDERING IN W(BY GOD)V ...

DIAGNOSED CDO - (OCD In Correct Alphabetical Order)
KULTULZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2021, 11:02 AM   #8
KULTULZ
Senior Member
 
KULTULZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: IN A 'GALAXIE' FAR FAR AWAY
Posts: 6,475
Post Re: 1961 FE exaust manifolds and casting numbers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darrell View Post

... tapered to use a donut gasket.what year was the change to donut.i had a lot of these engines back when but i cant remember when the change happened.
I think .... misnomer ... that it began approximately 1962/ and progressed from there. RS w/ HEAT RISER VALVE used flat flange and LS used donut.
__________________
*****

- WHY IS IT ... -

... that everything you buy in the grocery store is either wrapped in or contained in plastic but the government doesn't want you to carry it out in a plastic bag?

WONDERING IN W(BY GOD)V ...

DIAGNOSED CDO - (OCD In Correct Alphabetical Order)
KULTULZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2021, 04:33 PM   #9
JimNNN
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 522
Default Re: 1961 FE exaust manifolds and casting numbers.

Thanks for the replies everyone. I went up and checked yesterday and it has flat gaskets rather than the donut. I did exhaust work since I've owned the car, so you think I'd remember that stuff, but...oh well.

I don't know if the heat riser valve (thanks KULTULZ) is working, but I think I'll probably just get a spacer from Macs and call it good, as I hardly ever drive the car in winter.

The riser tube coming from the manifold broke a long time ago...before I bought the car. I put a manual choke on it to replace the automatic thermal choke, but I think I'm going to put an electric choke from Mike's Carb Parts. It's solid state, I think. I put one on my T-Bird and it works pretty slick. The kit has you cap of that tube.




My car was made in late 1960, so I think that's probably the correct casting number on the manifold, based on what you guys say. My main concern is I definitely want the new manifold to connect with existing exhaust system, which is fairly new (single exhaust.)

Did different manifolds have different outlets that came down at different angles? I'm looking at a used manifold that the seller SAYS would work on a '61 Merc., but the prefix on the casting # is "C6......", which, as I understand it, would be for a car from 1966, or thereabouts. It MAY work on my car, but the number is C6AE9430A so I can't know for sure. My car is a "survivor" original, but I'm not so anal about it that casting numbers have to be exact.

I'll look for one of those manuals KULTULZ mentioned.Oh, two more questions:



The seller says the the cylinder head mating surface of the manifold has been resurfaced, which is good. Does the cylinder head exhaust surfaces themselves have to be resurfaced flat?



Also, the there was no exhaust manifold gasket from the factory on my car. Would you put one on when replacing the manifold?

Last edited by JimNNN; 01-20-2021 at 04:41 PM.
JimNNN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2021, 05:11 PM   #10
estout81
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Utica, Ohio
Posts: 522
Default Re: 1961 FE exaust manifolds and casting numbers.

The head should be resurfaced. You might get away with using a large flat file to clean the head surface, but, the head must be flat and clean. Do NOT use a gasket between head and manifold.
estout81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2021, 07:42 PM   #11
KULTULZ
Senior Member
 
KULTULZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: IN A 'GALAXIE' FAR FAR AWAY
Posts: 6,475
Post Re: 1961 FE exaust manifolds and casting numbers.

Quote:
Did different manifolds have different outlets that came down at different angles?

I'm looking at a used manifold that the seller SAYS would work on a '61 Merc., but the prefix on the casting # is "C6......", which, as I understand it, would be for a car from 1966, or thereabouts. It MAY work on my car, but the number is C6AE9430A so I can't know for sure. My car is a "survivor" original, but I'm not so anal about it that casting numbers have to be exact.

I'll look for one of those manuals KULTULZ mentioned.Oh, two more questions:

The seller says the the cylinder head mating surface of the manifold has been resurfaced, which is good. Does the cylinder head exhaust surfaces themselves have to be resurfaced flat?

Also, the there was no exhaust manifold gasket from the factory on my car. Would you put one on when replacing the manifold?

I would leave the C6 alone as it most likely will not fit (IMO).

The manual you speak of is very hard to find. With those manuals, you could pinpoint what would and would not work.

It is hard to determine how to advise you as the MPC was updated regularly and a replacing PN would be hard to determine without all the needed manuals.

There was no gasket used, it was metal to metal except for HP and medium/heavy truck. The manifold will warp way ahead of the head surface. Very unusual. Just make sure the replacement manifold is true and try to use new hardware torqued to factory specs. Under no circumstances use a fiber gasket as these will allow the manifold to move leading to cracking.



You might want to remove your manifold to compare with period ones on E-Bay.


See Attached -
__________________
*****

- WHY IS IT ... -

... that everything you buy in the grocery store is either wrapped in or contained in plastic but the government doesn't want you to carry it out in a plastic bag?

WONDERING IN W(BY GOD)V ...

DIAGNOSED CDO - (OCD In Correct Alphabetical Order)
KULTULZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2021, 11:11 PM   #12
fordor41
Senior Member
 
fordor41's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: elmira,ny
Posts: 1,517
Default Re: 1961 FE exaust manifolds and casting numbers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimNNN View Post
Thanks for the replies everyone. I went up and checked yesterday and it has flat gaskets rather than the donut. I did exhaust work since I've owned the car, so you think I'd remember that stuff, but...oh well.

I don't know if the heat riser valve (thanks KULTULZ) is working, but I think I'll probably just get a spacer from Macs and call it good, as I hardly ever drive the car in winter.

The riser tube coming from the manifold broke a long time ago...before I bought the car. I put a manual choke on it to replace the automatic thermal choke, but I think I'm going to put an electric choke from Mike's Carb Parts. It's solid state, I think. I put one on my T-Bird and it works pretty slick. The kit has you cap of that tube.




My car was made in late 1960, so I think that's probably the correct casting number on the manifold, based on what you guys say. My main concern is I definitely want the new manifold to connect with existing exhaust system, which is fairly new (single exhaust.)

Did different manifolds have different outlets that came down at different angles? I'm looking at a used manifold that the seller SAYS would work on a '61 Merc., but the prefix on the casting # is "C6......", which, as I understand it, would be for a car from 1966, or thereabouts. It MAY work on my car, but the number is C6AE9430A so I can't know for sure. My car is a "survivor" original, but I'm not so anal about it that casting numbers have to be exact.

I'll look for one of those manuals KULTULZ mentioned.Oh, two more questions:



The seller says the the cylinder head mating surface of the manifold has been resurfaced, which is good. Does the cylinder head exhaust surfaces themselves have to be resurfaced flat?



Also, the there was no exhaust manifold gasket from the factory on my car. Would you put one on when replacing the manifold?
instead of ordering a heat riser valve spacer, why not take the valve disc out and use the empty valve as a spacer. then everything will look original
fordor41 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2021, 11:43 PM   #13
JimNNN
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 522
Default Re: 1961 FE exaust manifolds and casting numbers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fordor41 View Post
instead of ordering a heat riser valve spacer, why not take the valve disc out and use the empty valve as a spacer. then everything will look original

Great idea, fordor41. When I replace the manifold I'll take a look at it and see how intact it is. At this point my main concern is making sure my exhaust seal is 100%. Regardless, I'll keep the original valve with the car always.


LOW AND BEHOLD, I found a manifold on evil bay right now that has the exact same casting number as my original! 5751204



It wasn't exactly cheap, but it looks to be in very good condition, and has no cracks according to the seller - who has a very high rating over 40k + feedback. I went ahead and ordered it. There's a 30 day return policy with this seller.



Many thanks to Kultulz (especially), alt63bird, estout81 and darrell and anyone else I missed for the much needed help. Another question:


Why are the second set of holes back from the front (and presumably the corresponding fasteners) smaller than the others on these manifolds?



Also, if I'm going to go with new fasteners for the manifold, what would you recommend? Thanks again.

Last edited by JimNNN; 01-20-2021 at 11:56 PM.
JimNNN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2021, 12:14 AM   #14
dmsfrr
Senior Member
 
dmsfrr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Abq, NM
Posts: 3,607
Default Re: 1961 FE exaust manifolds and casting numbers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimNNN View Post
. . .
Why are the second set of holes back from the front (and presumably the corresponding fasteners) smaller than the others on these manifolds?
. . .
I suspect the attaching bolts are all the same size and the slightly oversize bolt holes in the casting are to allow it to expand and contract slightly as it heats and cools, to reduce the chances of it cracking. Double check for the correct torque value on the bolts and use the appropriate bolts and washers, Too tight is not 'better', and may cause the manifolds to crack sooner.

Some exhaust manifolds were originally designed to be installed to the head without gaskets. Over-tightening the bolts can crush an add-on gasket unevenly and eventually crack or break the casting.
I'm not sure if 'no original gasket' applies to the versions you have but it may be a good thing to know.
.

Last edited by dmsfrr; 01-21-2021 at 04:45 AM.
dmsfrr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2021, 01:03 AM   #15
alt63bird
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: outside Omaha, NE
Posts: 276
Default Re: 1961 FE exaust manifolds and casting numbers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darrell View Post
tapered to use a donut gasket.what year was the change to donut.i had a lot of these engines back when but i cant remember when the change happened.
1 9 6 3 from what I've witnessed on T-bird 390 manifolds, as the C2SZ versions were flat for the flange-type pipes - I alluded to that in my previous post but wasn't specific about that fact. People also need to be aware that there were differences between Galaxie and T-bird exhaust manifolds in the early '60s, at least for '61. The big difference I've found is that the T-bird manifolds had a threaded opening in the top of the manifolds to accept an eye bolt used with a hook/overhead conveyor line during engine drop at Wixom Assembly, while at least one '61 C1AE manifold I documented had this 'nub' filled in as they used another method.
__________________
Alan H. Tast AIA, LEED AP BD+C
Technical Director/Past President-Editor-Publications Director, Vintage Thunderbird Club Int'l. (VTCI)
http://www.vintagethunderbirdclub.net
Author, "Thunderbird 1955-1966" & "Thunderbird 50 Years"
35+ year member, Crown Victoria Ass'n.

Last edited by alt63bird; 01-21-2021 at 01:23 AM.
alt63bird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2021, 01:14 AM   #16
alt63bird
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: outside Omaha, NE
Posts: 276
Default Re: 1961 FE exaust manifolds and casting numbers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KULTULZ View Post


... you have what ... ?

Where in the world did you come across them? Can you show the PRINT DATE (quarter -year) of the MPC and CROSS-REFERENCE?
Off the top of my head the MPXR catalog was printed April of '59, and I've been attempting to collect loose-leaf MPCs going back into the late '50s-early '60s in search of change levels that others may have thrown away, along with L-M books and Ford Truck. As for where I found the MPXR book I don't recall as it's been over 20 years since I got it - might have been at Fords@Carlisle in '97 or a local swap meet out here in fly-over country (probably the latter). Give me a few days to dig it up and confirm along with form number - my time and memory's clogged up with a project submittal going out the door on Friday, and I'm still in the office at friggin' midnight!!
__________________
Alan H. Tast AIA, LEED AP BD+C
Technical Director/Past President-Editor-Publications Director, Vintage Thunderbird Club Int'l. (VTCI)
http://www.vintagethunderbirdclub.net
Author, "Thunderbird 1955-1966" & "Thunderbird 50 Years"
35+ year member, Crown Victoria Ass'n.
alt63bird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2021, 01:17 AM   #17
alt63bird
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: outside Omaha, NE
Posts: 276
Default Re: 1961 FE exaust manifolds and casting numbers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmsfrr View Post
I suspect the attaching bolts are all the same size and the slightly oversize bolt holes in the casting are to allow it to expand and contract slightly as it heats and cools, to reduce the chances of it cracking. Double check for the correct torque value on the bolts and use the appropriate bolts and washers, Too tight is not 'better', and may cause the manifolds to crack sooner.

Some exhaust manifolds were originally designed to be installed to the head without gaskets. Over-tightening the bolts can crush an add-on gasket unevenly and eventually crack or break the casting.
I'm not sure if 'no original gasket' applies to the versions you have but it may be a good thing to know.
.
BINGO! As others noted, typically there was a thin, stamped sheet metal heat shield installed between the head and manifold to help protect the plug wires, but many people mistake it for a gasket.
__________________
Alan H. Tast AIA, LEED AP BD+C
Technical Director/Past President-Editor-Publications Director, Vintage Thunderbird Club Int'l. (VTCI)
http://www.vintagethunderbirdclub.net
Author, "Thunderbird 1955-1966" & "Thunderbird 50 Years"
35+ year member, Crown Victoria Ass'n.
alt63bird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2021, 02:23 AM   #18
KULTULZ
Senior Member
 
KULTULZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: IN A 'GALAXIE' FAR FAR AWAY
Posts: 6,475
Post Re: 1961 FE exaust manifolds and casting numbers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimNNN View Post

Also, if I'm going to go with new fasteners for the manifold, what would you recommend? Thanks again.
Below is an ATTACHING HARDWARE LISTING. It gives sizes. The cap screws should have lock washers installed. GRADE 5 is what you are looking for. No HOME DEPOT! Most hardware now is off-shore junk. After installing and run through some heat cycles it is a good idea to re-torque.

As for the VALVE, if inoperable you will need to confirm frozen in open position or safety wire in open position. If you remove the pintle shaft you will need to add welds to close the holes.

If the valve is still operable, I would just safety wire it to stay open. Leaded gasoline is what disabled them.


OH! If you could when you get the manifold, if you could take an overhead shot w/ the CASTING ID and post it here I would appreciate it.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg EXH MANIFOLD HRDWRE - 1960-64 FORD.jpg (32.9 KB, 8 views)
__________________
*****

- WHY IS IT ... -

... that everything you buy in the grocery store is either wrapped in or contained in plastic but the government doesn't want you to carry it out in a plastic bag?

WONDERING IN W(BY GOD)V ...

DIAGNOSED CDO - (OCD In Correct Alphabetical Order)
KULTULZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2021, 01:07 PM   #19
JimNNN
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 522
Default Re: 1961 FE exaust manifolds and casting numbers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KULTULZ View Post


OH! If you could when you get the manifold, if you could take an overhead shot w/ the CASTING ID and post it here I would appreciate it.

Here's a pic from the evil bay ad. The actual numbers on the casting are a slightly smaller size than what's on the original on my car, I think. And in a slightly different location. The other extraneous numbers aren't the same, but I figure that they're some sort of production numbering system. The seller says the paint/coating will burn off. Also, he sells a lot of FE exhaust manifolds on ebay, but noted that that this particular casting number is difficult to find. So I lucked out...but I'm still crossing my fingers that everything will be as needed when it arrives. Here's the pic :
Attached Images
File Type: jpg s-l1600.jpg (78.9 KB, 15 views)

Last edited by JimNNN; 01-21-2021 at 01:16 PM.
JimNNN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2021, 03:12 PM   #20
KULTULZ
Senior Member
 
KULTULZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: IN A 'GALAXIE' FAR FAR AWAY
Posts: 6,475
Thumbs up Re: 1961 FE exaust manifolds and casting numbers.

thank you very much!
__________________
*****

- WHY IS IT ... -

... that everything you buy in the grocery store is either wrapped in or contained in plastic but the government doesn't want you to carry it out in a plastic bag?

WONDERING IN W(BY GOD)V ...

DIAGNOSED CDO - (OCD In Correct Alphabetical Order)
KULTULZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2021, 03:30 PM   #21
alt63bird
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: outside Omaha, NE
Posts: 276
Default Re: 1961 FE exaust manifolds and casting numbers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimNNN View Post
Here's a pic from the evil bay ad. The actual numbers on the casting are a slightly smaller size than what's on the original on my car, I think. And in a slightly different location. The other extraneous numbers aren't the same, but I figure that they're some sort of production numbering system. The seller says the paint/coating will burn off. Also, he sells a lot of FE exhaust manifolds on ebay, but noted that that this particular casting number is difficult to find. So I lucked out...but I'm still crossing my fingers that everything will be as needed when it arrives. Here's the pic :
The 'Circle-F' is the Cleveland Casting Foundry mark. The '9A L' in the raised oval with slotted screwhead impressions is the casting date, in this case 9=1959, A=January, L = 11th day of month, so manifold was cast on January 11, 1959.
__________________
Alan H. Tast AIA, LEED AP BD+C
Technical Director/Past President-Editor-Publications Director, Vintage Thunderbird Club Int'l. (VTCI)
http://www.vintagethunderbirdclub.net
Author, "Thunderbird 1955-1966" & "Thunderbird 50 Years"
35+ year member, Crown Victoria Ass'n.
alt63bird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2021, 04:05 AM   #22
JimNNN
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 522
Default Re: 1961 FE exaust manifolds and casting numbers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alt63bird View Post
The 'Circle-F' is the Cleveland Casting Foundry mark. The '9A L' in the raised oval with slotted screwhead impressions is the casting date, in this case 9=1959, A=January, L = 11th day of month, so manifold was cast on January 11, 1959.

Thanks Alan! Great information.
JimNNN is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 01-23-2021, 06:28 AM   #23
KULTULZ
Senior Member
 
KULTULZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: IN A 'GALAXIE' FAR FAR AWAY
Posts: 6,475
Question Re: 1961 FE exaust manifolds and casting numbers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alt63bird View Post

Thankfully I have a copy of the Master Cross-Refernce Parts Catalog with the 10-digit engineering numbers and corresponding Parts & Accessories (P&A) numbers to compare against.
I am very interested in the SEVEN DIGIT PN SYSTEM you say you have in an MPC. Are your copies included within a period CHASSIS CATALOG or do you have discarded inserts (LOOSE LEAF CATALOG)? I need source info (PUB TYPE - DATE of PUB) and/or will gladly pay for TEXT/ILL copies.


THANK YOU!
__________________
*****

- WHY IS IT ... -

... that everything you buy in the grocery store is either wrapped in or contained in plastic but the government doesn't want you to carry it out in a plastic bag?

WONDERING IN W(BY GOD)V ...

DIAGNOSED CDO - (OCD In Correct Alphabetical Order)
KULTULZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2021, 10:43 AM   #24
flatrod
Senior Member
 
flatrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Anchorage Alaska
Posts: 291
Default Re: 1961 FE exaust manifolds and casting numbers.

I have several price sheets from 79 to 80's time frame, also a 79 and 80's OSI books. The OSI books are pretty rough, well used. If anyone is interested in them.
flatrod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2021, 01:17 PM   #25
alt63bird
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: outside Omaha, NE
Posts: 276
Default Re: 1961 FE exaust manifolds and casting numbers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KULTULZ View Post


... you have what ... ?

Where in the world did you come across them? Can you show the PRINT DATE (quarter -year) of the MPC and CROSS-REFERENCE?
Master Cross-Reference List (MXRL) between Ford M-E-L Parts & Accessory (P&A) and Engineering Numbers - Form FD-7425, July 1959 (Vol. 1.). This was a 'final' printing for Vol. 1. The MXRL Vol. 2 (FD-7425-2) final release date was April 1966 for parts following the Vol. 1 edition. MXRL Vol. 3 was released sometime in 1976.

For a 'geek' like me who uses these kinds of things when researching the chronology of parts development and applications for VTCI's Original Factory Specifications (OFS) manuals, answering tech questions here or in the VTCI Forum, or writing tech articles for VTCI's "Thunderbird Scoop" magazine, I can't live without OSIs and MXRLs along with period/loose-leaf MPCs to find numbers that were deleted in final editions of the '49-'59 and '60-'64 "Blue Bibles" along with the final editions of the '65-'72 and '73-'79 MPCs, plus all the Mercury and Lincoln parts catalogs (BTW I'm still wanting to add Edsel catalogs to my library), which in the late '50s were loaded with the number-only part numbers (well, I could, but it would be more of a challenge trying to figure things out).
Attached Images
File Type: jpg FD-7425 MPXRL F-M-E-L Jul 59.jpg (46.2 KB, 6 views)
__________________
Alan H. Tast AIA, LEED AP BD+C
Technical Director/Past President-Editor-Publications Director, Vintage Thunderbird Club Int'l. (VTCI)
http://www.vintagethunderbirdclub.net
Author, "Thunderbird 1955-1966" & "Thunderbird 50 Years"
35+ year member, Crown Victoria Ass'n.

Last edited by alt63bird; 01-23-2021 at 01:41 PM.
alt63bird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2021, 01:21 PM   #26
alt63bird
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: outside Omaha, NE
Posts: 276
Default Re: 1961 FE exaust manifolds and casting numbers.

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Quote:
Originally Posted by KULTULZ View Post
I am very interested in the SEVEN DIGIT PN SYSTEM you say you have in an MPC. Are your copies included within a period CHASSIS CATALOG or do you have discarded inserts (LOOSE LEAF CATALOG)? I need source info (PUB TYPE - DATE of PUB) and/or will gladly pay for TEXT/ILL copies.


THANK YOU!
Kultulz, I think you misinterpreted my comment. I went back and edited the original post to better explain as follows:

Quote:
Thankfully I have a copy of the Master Cross-Reference Parts Catalog with the 7-digit all-number engineering numbers and corresponding Parts & Accessories (P&A) prefix-basic number-suffix ID numbers to compare against. What I found, if I remember correctly, was that the last digit of the engineering/production casting number might be off by 1 or 2 numbers compared to the service part's P&A and corresponding engineering number.
I really noticed this when researching the engineering casting numbers on intake and exhaust manifolds. I'd find the P&A part number for, say the intake manifold with its basic number (9425), track down the corresponding Engineering 7-digit number in the MXRL or in other sources like OSI catalogs and Lincoln/Mercury ones (especially for MEL-series 430 part numbers), and sometimes discovered that the engineering number cast into the part might be 1 or 2 numbers off from the catalog listings.

I can't say that I've found a 'Rosetta Stone' of documentation to make sense of the 7-digit, 8-digit, 10-digit (or whatever the heck they they used) parts numbering system - it looks to me that they must have had blocks of numbers assigned concurrently during the period...I never really paid attention to counting how many characters were in the part number - just that there was a damn long part number to try and find in the MXRL, OSI and MPC.
__________________
Alan H. Tast AIA, LEED AP BD+C
Technical Director/Past President-Editor-Publications Director, Vintage Thunderbird Club Int'l. (VTCI)
http://www.vintagethunderbirdclub.net
Author, "Thunderbird 1955-1966" & "Thunderbird 50 Years"
35+ year member, Crown Victoria Ass'n.

Last edited by alt63bird; 01-23-2021 at 02:50 PM.
alt63bird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2021, 02:59 PM   #27
KULTULZ
Senior Member
 
KULTULZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: IN A 'GALAXIE' FAR FAR AWAY
Posts: 6,475
Unhappy Re: 1961 FE exaust manifolds and casting numbers.

Quote:
Kultulz, I think you misinterpreted my comment. I went back and edited the original post to better explain as follows:

... sigh ...
__________________
*****

- WHY IS IT ... -

... that everything you buy in the grocery store is either wrapped in or contained in plastic but the government doesn't want you to carry it out in a plastic bag?

WONDERING IN W(BY GOD)V ...

DIAGNOSED CDO - (OCD In Correct Alphabetical Order)
KULTULZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2021, 04:51 PM   #28
5851a
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: NE Iowa
Posts: 1,664
Default Re: 1961 FE exaust manifolds and casting numbers.

With all the dealership takeovers combining Ford,Chrysler,Dihatso and whatever wonder how many of those books went in the trash. Several years ago the 'kid' at the Ford parts counter tried to humiliate me when I asked for alternator bearings and brushes with oh we don't have any old parts. Literally would fit millions of Fords on the road. Kultulz try the manuals and books section of ebay, may get lucky some day. Sorry for rant.
5851a is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2021, 05:31 PM   #29
KULTULZ
Senior Member
 
KULTULZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: IN A 'GALAXIE' FAR FAR AWAY
Posts: 6,475
Thumbs up Re: 1961 FE exaust manifolds and casting numbers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5851a View Post

With all the dealership takeovers combining Ford,Chrysler,Dihatso and whatever wonder how many of those books went in the trash. Several years ago the 'kid' at the Ford parts counter tried to humiliate me when I asked for alternator bearings and brushes with oh we don't have any old parts. Literally would fit millions of Fords on the road. Kultulz try the manuals and books section of ebay, may get lucky some day.

Sorry for rant.
Before FORD went to microfiche (about 1972). cataloging mainly was in loose leaf and these were held in binders. Every quarter, updates would be sent to dealers and these are the PAGE CHANGES you read about. Those pages were trashed while updating the catalog. No one held on to those.

Later, with the microfiche, the actual slides were updated quarterly. There were usually held onto for reference.

FORD than went to computer (CDP) and of course everything is done through the system by DEARBORN.

Most information has been tossed/forgotten and it makes restorations difficult. One would have to have a period correct CHASSIS MANUAL (catalog) to find concise info on that odd numbering system. And believe me I have looked.

THANX!
__________________
*****

- WHY IS IT ... -

... that everything you buy in the grocery store is either wrapped in or contained in plastic but the government doesn't want you to carry it out in a plastic bag?

WONDERING IN W(BY GOD)V ...

DIAGNOSED CDO - (OCD In Correct Alphabetical Order)
KULTULZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2021, 12:54 PM   #30
rotorwrench
Senior Member
 
rotorwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 16,431
Default Re: 1961 FE exaust manifolds and casting numbers.

Parts catalogs can sometimes be purchased on CD format. I always get all the info I can get for the old cars. The Hollanders are the best interchange books to get. It take a while to go through all those old Ford reference manuals. I have a bunch of them myself but seldom ever use them.

If a person finds the exact part number they need, it takes a lot less looking on the internet. Two good early 60s salvage yards in Texas are Owen's Salvage in Wellington TX and John's Salvage in Seguin TX. If I can't find it on the internet, I call them. It's too bad Stacy Brown closed up shop in Arlington TX. He had tons of NOS parts for the old cars. They will all eventually be gone though.

Ford's numbering system was always evolving and still does but it is of a similar format even today. I find 1949 to 51 Mercury parts (8M) that were used on my 1956 Ford 850 tractor.

Last edited by rotorwrench; 01-24-2021 at 01:00 PM.
rotorwrench is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:26 PM.