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10-24-2020, 03:27 PM | #41 | |
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Re: Fordomatic late shifting ('57 thunderbird)
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10-25-2020, 03:32 AM | #42 |
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Re: Fordomatic late shifting ('57 thunderbird)
But what is minimum pressure without TV activation?
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10-25-2020, 08:20 AM | #43 |
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Re: Fordomatic late shifting ('57 thunderbird)
Minimum TV pressure is when the valve and lever are against the stop/L shaped bracket.
When the throttle is opened the lever moves the valve away from the stop increasing the pressure. When the throttle is closed the valve and lever are returned to the stop by spring pressure lowering the pressure to minimum. Minimum TV pressure is controlled by the stop. If the stop was to get bent in toward the valve it would raise the minimum pressure. That L shaped stop bracket sticks out like a sore thumb and is easily bent. Bill Last edited by bbrocksr; 10-25-2020 at 08:28 AM. |
10-25-2020, 09:18 AM | #44 |
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Re: Fordomatic late shifting ('57 thunderbird)
You are correct, but all of this will not happen with the TV rod disconnected unless the lever itself is actuated in some manner to arrive at correct TV pressure.
The trans assy has to see proper TV pressure to operate properly according to its' calibration(s). You would/could fine tune and modify from that point. The same with a vacuum modulator valve, it is adjustable. Or am I off on an incorrect tangent?
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10-25-2020, 08:13 PM | #45 |
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Re: Fordomatic late shifting ('57 thunderbird)
Ok, got the pan off and took at look at things. Made another video showing the TV linkage against the ‘L’ bracket. It’s obviously putting pressure on the valve at the ‘Rest’ position and limiting travel of the linkage. I think this is the key to the entire problem.
https://youtu.be/Qfe5KclSPkQ I went ahead and pulled the valve body and disassembled. Everything looks good and all springs are present and accounted for. All pistons move freely. Would y’all go ahead and bend the ‘L’ bracket back and check for free movement and reassemble? For grins I hooked up the TV rod to the trans with valve body removed and I get full articulation with no binding. Here’s a closer look at the TV & L stop https://youtu.be/6NRYD5EvOOA I'm concerned that even bending this L won't give me the amount of travel I need without seriously distorting things. Thoughts? Thanks,
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Kent — Round Rock, TX '56 F-100 | '56 Crown Vic | '57 Fairlaine 500 | '57 Thunderbird Last edited by yblock57; 10-25-2020 at 09:33 PM. |
10-25-2020, 09:45 PM | #46 |
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Re: Fordomatic late shifting ('57 thunderbird)
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10-25-2020, 11:04 PM | #47 |
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Re: Fordomatic late shifting ('57 thunderbird)
Don't try to bend the bracket, it looks fine as is. The piston does seem to be pushed out to far, the narrow part of the piston should not be visible outside of the main body. (compare to left valve body in earlier posted picture) I think that it has been assembled wrong. What was happening at the other end of that passage while you were pushing the piston in and out. I will take one apart tomorrow and take pictures for comparison.
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10-25-2020, 11:55 PM | #48 | |
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Re: Fordomatic late shifting ('57 thunderbird)
Quote:
The original posters problem was the shift points are too high and too firm which is caused by TV pressure being too high at minimum throttle. With the rod disconnected something is keeping the valve from extending far enough to lower the pressure enough for a proper shift speed and feel. Either a binding lever or a bent TV valve stop. The binding lever can be detected by feel, spring pressure one way and a solid stop the other. I 'm thinking the L shaped stop bracket is bent in increasing minimum pressure. Bill |
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10-25-2020, 11:59 PM | #49 | |
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Re: Fordomatic late shifting ('57 thunderbird)
Quote:
Please disregard this post I tried to delete. Bill That picture is for reference only, not the original posers valve body. Last edited by bbrocksr; 10-26-2020 at 12:11 AM. Reason: error tried to delete |
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10-26-2020, 12:25 AM | #50 | |
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Re: Fordomatic late shifting ('57 thunderbird)
Quote:
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10-26-2020, 03:49 AM | #51 |
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Re: Fordomatic late shifting ('57 thunderbird)
Well, not actually. I did not understand the OP as actually being in a diagnostic sequence.
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10-26-2020, 09:21 AM | #52 |
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Re: Fordomatic late shifting ('57 thunderbird)
I did not bend the L bracket. Didn't feel right as others have noted. Didn't look like that was the actual issue.
After several of y'all pointed out and I initially missed, the back side of the throttle valve was NOT moving freely. It was being stopped by the back cover plate that had a small protrusion just barely covering the edge of the TV bore, thus creating a hard stop on the valve. Pics Dominic posted earlier in this thread clearly show the TV protruding out the backside of the bore. Mine was not. Apologies on the videos. I accidentally stopped in between showing the issue. https://youtu.be/VVfgFdubxhs https://youtu.be/yZUT4PGkFKU I don't have an explanation on why that back cover plate was interfering with the valve, but I went ahead and filed it down to get the clearance I needed. It only goes on one-way so no way it could've been flipped or put on backwards. Now it operates with MUCH more movement than before. I suspect this will translate into the additional articulation I need to get the linkage set correctly and have full throttle without binding. https://youtu.be/8Rr5ZH-up_w I'll be sure and check movement of everything when I reinstall the valve body and before the pan goes back on. If anyone has any additional thoughts or ideas on what I should look at while the pan's off, I'm all ears! I'll be setting the TV rod using my pressure gauge when it gets to that point. I want to verify this gets me back into the ranges shown in the FOM shop manual. This has been a great learning experience. I can't thank everyone enough who's chimed in with all the help and suggestions. Very much appreciated! I'll be sure and post my findings.
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Kent — Round Rock, TX '56 F-100 | '56 Crown Vic | '57 Fairlaine 500 | '57 Thunderbird Last edited by yblock57; 10-26-2020 at 09:55 AM. |
10-26-2020, 11:52 AM | #53 | |
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Re: Fordomatic late shifting ('57 thunderbird)
Quote:
l I should add that the plate fits between the first and second lands and limits the travel both ways. It keeps the second land from coming out and keeps the first land from going back in to far. By removing the edge of the plate it can't limit the travel as designed. Your third video shows this as the first land can go in past the plate. I would get another plate so it can limit the travel. Bill Last edited by bbrocksr; 10-26-2020 at 12:15 PM. |
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10-26-2020, 11:58 AM | #54 | |
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Re: Fordomatic late shifting ('57 thunderbird)
Quote:
Dad has an extra valve body at the house that Should have that piece intact that I can grab. If I did install it the way it is now, I'm guessing it would get stuck? Possibly too low line pressure?
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Kent — Round Rock, TX '56 F-100 | '56 Crown Vic | '57 Fairlaine 500 | '57 Thunderbird |
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10-26-2020, 12:22 PM | #55 | |
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Re: Fordomatic late shifting ('57 thunderbird)
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10-26-2020, 12:49 PM | #56 |
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Re: Fordomatic late shifting ('57 thunderbird)
It would help if I'd read closer in the book where it mentioned that. Amateur mistake.
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10-26-2020, 01:43 PM | #57 |
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Re: Fordomatic late shifting ('57 thunderbird)
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10-26-2020, 06:05 PM | #58 |
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Re: Fordomatic late shifting ('57 thunderbird)
I'm more used to the old ones but something doesn't look right there. The book I have for the old Merc-O-Matic shows that their are the two valves there in that same bore. The one on the throttle control shaft side is the kick-down valve and it pushes the throttle valve through a straight coil spring on that side. There is a tool to bend that stop but I don't think that is the problem. On the other side where the throttle valve protrudes out, I'm used to seeing a leaf spring on the plate there. The plate that I'm used to actually has a leaf spring that controls how far the throttle valve can protrude there but also limits it on how far it can go back in the bore. Yours not only doesn't have the leaf spring but it is stopping the valve from moving farther out. Something has to be there the keep it from moving out too far and it appears to be missing that spring. Take a good look at the photos of the other valve body and you will see the leaf spring there. The valve should protrude beyond that plate and make contact with the spring.
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10-30-2020, 03:50 PM | #59 |
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Re: Fordomatic late shifting ('57 thunderbird)
While I'm waiting on my valve body part, I wanted to try to get the linkage set the best possible by the book. I can't get the accelerator pedal height up past 3" and the book calls for 4 7/8" on a '57 thunderbird.
As a consequence of this, when you floor the pedal, you do not get full throttle engagement. When you work the 'grasshopper' under the hood by hand to full throttle, the rod pops out of the back of the accelerator pedal. Obviously there's something wrong here. I've locked the 'grasshopper' in place with the 1/4" drill bit and the threaded rod that sets the pedal height is extended as long as it will go. 3" is all I can get out of the adjustment. I went ahead and removed the piece of linkage from the accelerator pedal that goes through the firewall and measured and took a few pics. If anyone has one I can compare mine to, that would be great. Not sure if the curve in it is correct or not — it doesn't appear bent to the naked eye. I don't want to flatten that curve in a vise if it is indeed correct and the problem is elsewhere. Tip to tip is 5 7/8" Nothing else in the setup looks bent or twisted. Thanks!
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Kent — Round Rock, TX '56 F-100 | '56 Crown Vic | '57 Fairlaine 500 | '57 Thunderbird |
10-30-2020, 04:57 PM | #60 |
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Re: Fordomatic late shifting ('57 thunderbird)
Whether it has the correct rod length from the pedal or not, is it possibble to twist/bend the rod rod that goes through the bell crank on the fire wall, so you can get the correct height off the floor for the pedal ? In other words, make the bottom of the rod/lever closer to the firewall where the pedal rod goes through. Just a thought.
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