The Ford Barn

DBF 30 · 03-07-2012, 01:08 AM

Pulled the head and several studs with nuts came out together. No problem getting head off. A few more studs out with double nutting, but ended up with 7 studs that refused to come out. After a week of soaking with PB blaster and occasional tapping with a hammer I started in on it tonight.

Searched the site and decided that my tool of choice was a small pipe wrench. They started coming out and I thought I had it made. Unfortunatly I found out that the difference between breaking free and breaking off was way to close together. Ended up with 3 snapped off flush with the head.

My fault for not being patient and using the torch to heat and cool as many have advised in past threads. I now have to pay for not following good advice.

Trying not to repeat the same mistake of not listening and getting in a hurry again.

So what is the concensus on drilling or using the welded washer / nut removal method. I am leaning towards trying the welding first but will have to break down rest of engine to take to a maching shop for the Tig welding.

What do you all recomend?

Russ/40 · 03-07-2012, 01:12 AM

In the future, forget the pipe wrench and use an impact. Use the washer weld approach.

verdirick · 03-07-2012, 01:44 AM

Use a dril guide (available from Snyders) with a left hand 7/16 drill bit, with the head back on to find the exact center of your broken stud. Once drilled out you should be able to remove the residue thread material with a dental pick. I'm not exactly sure if you use a 7/16 bit, but talk to someone at Snyders, I think they will help you. Just don't try to drill it out without using the drill centering guide tool.

See their part # A-6062,, page A-115 of latest catalog...

tyler · 03-07-2012, 07:18 AM

I wouldn't bother with drilling. Use the washer and weld approach mentioned above for an easy removal. Just went through this myself.

BRENT in 10-uh-C · 03-07-2012, 07:59 AM

Sometimes it is the price one pays for not having access to the necessary tools needed to work with. Everyone experiences it, and it is just a part of restoration/repair. Therefore don't get yourself down about it as everyone has been in your shoes at one time or another. I realize you said you don't have a TIG but do you have a MIG welder? You might be able to get by with a MIG. If you have not seen this, Vince has written a very nice tutorial on his website. CLICK HERE to read it.

One other option if you take it to a machine shop is for them to use a wire EDM to remove it. I als tend to side with Tyler in that drilling it (even with a centering guide) leaves you with a strong possibility of another "malfunction". Not worth the gamble IMHO.

.

Kevin in NJ · 03-07-2012, 12:59 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Welded washer and nut works like a charm, easy as pie. Just do not forget the penetrating oil while still hot as mentioned in Vince's page.

Tom Wesenberg · 03-07-2012, 01:11 PM

And if the welded nut and washer breaks the first time, try it again. After two heat cycles, they almost always come out.

I've had to drill a few and have had success with that, but the welded nut and washer is quicker and easier.

jhowes · 03-07-2012, 01:13 PM

So what is EDM? Mine broke just below the surface of the block and I am afraid that The welding of a washer will damage the flat surface of the block. Any thoughts?

BRENT in 10-uh-C · 03-07-2012, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhowes

So what is EDM? Mine broke just below the surface of the block and I am afraid that The welding of a washer will damage the flat surface of the block. Any thoughts?

My advice to anyone is they should do whatever tasks they feel like they have the capability to perform themselves, ...and seek the expertise of a professional in areas they don't have knowledge of. I mean this with all due respect and not being critical in any manner, but if you feel you have the skill and ability to weld the washer onto the stud when it is below the surface, then it shouldn't be a problem for you to do however if you are worried that your abilities may come up short, you may want to take it to someone who has the ability. It may save you money or allow you to avoid further stress in the long run.

Tom Wesenberg · 03-07-2012, 02:16 PM

Here's what I posted some time ago about how I remove broken studs. Click on the link and read reply #46.

http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showth...d+studs&page=3

DBF 30 · 03-08-2012, 01:03 AM

Thanks everyone for all the great input. When I get ready I am going to try the welded washer and nut. Seems to hold the greatest promise.

Finally got around to meeting up with the local Model A club today and met some great people.

I also pulled the rest of my engine apart and found that it is on its last legs. Too much thrust on crank, babbit bearings worn thin, babbit in block slightly moving and and down to NO SHIMS left to adjust, rust pits on crank .... overall a complete rebuild required to get any kind of reliabilty. All bad news on top of the broken studs and two water jacket cracks.

The good news is that today I got a lead on a low milage rebuilt engine at a resonable price. That sure helped take the sting out of all the bad news with my current engine.

03-07-2012, 01:08 AM	#1
DBF 30 Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Posts: 38	broken head studs Pulled the head and several studs with nuts came out together. No problem getting head off. A few more studs out with double nutting, but ended up with 7 studs that refused to come out. After a week of soaking with PB blaster and occasional tapping with a hammer I started in on it tonight. Searched the site and decided that my tool of choice was a small pipe wrench. They started coming out and I thought I had it made. Unfortunatly I found out that the difference between breaking free and breaking off was way to close together. Ended up with 3 snapped off flush with the head. My fault for not being patient and using the torch to heat and cool as many have advised in past threads. I now have to pay for not following good advice. Trying not to repeat the same mistake of not listening and getting in a hurry again. So what is the concensus on drilling or using the welded washer / nut removal method. I am leaning towards trying the welding first but will have to break down rest of engine to take to a maching shop for the Tig welding. What do you all recomend?

03-07-2012, 01:12 AM	#2
Russ/40 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Santee, California Posts: 3,505	Re: broken head studs In the future, forget the pipe wrench and use an impact. Use the washer weld approach.

03-07-2012, 01:44 AM	#3
verdirick Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Verdi, Nevada Posts: 166	Re: broken head studs Use a dril guide (available from Snyders) with a left hand 7/16 drill bit, with the head back on to find the exact center of your broken stud. Once drilled out you should be able to remove the residue thread material with a dental pick. I'm not exactly sure if you use a 7/16 bit, but talk to someone at Snyders, I think they will help you. Just don't try to drill it out without using the drill centering guide tool. See their part # A-6062,, page A-115 of latest catalog... Last edited by verdirick; 03-07-2012 at 01:49 AM. Reason: add product #

03-07-2012, 07:59 AM	#5
BRENT in 10-uh-C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Eastern Tennessee Posts: 11,519	Re: broken head studs Sometimes it is the price one pays for not having access to the necessary tools needed to work with. Everyone experiences it, and it is just a part of restoration/repair. Therefore don't get yourself down about it as everyone has been in your shoes at one time or another. I realize you said you don't have a TIG but do you have a MIG welder? You might be able to get by with a MIG. If you have not seen this, Vince has written a very nice tutorial on his website. CLICK HERE to read it. One other option if you take it to a machine shop is for them to use a wire EDM to remove it. I als tend to side with Tyler in that drilling it (even with a centering guide) leaves you with a strong possibility of another "malfunction". Not worth the gamble IMHO. . __________________ . BRENT in 10-uh-C . www.model-a-ford.com ...(...Finally Updated!! ) .

03-07-2012, 12:59 PM	#6
Kevin in NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South East NJ Posts: 3,398	Re: broken head studs Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Welded washer and nut works like a charm, easy as pie. Just do not forget the penetrating oil while still hot as mentioned in Vince's page.

03-07-2012, 07:18 AM	#4
tyler Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Randolph N.Y. Posts: 105	Re: broken head studs I wouldn't bother with drilling. Use the washer and weld approach mentioned above for an easy removal. Just went through this myself.

03-07-2012, 01:11 PM	#7
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: broken head studs And if the welded nut and washer breaks the first time, try it again. After two heat cycles, they almost always come out. I've had to drill a few and have had success with that, but the welded nut and washer is quicker and easier.

03-07-2012, 01:13 PM	#8
jhowes Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: upstate NY near Mass border Posts: 789	Re: broken head studs So what is EDM? Mine broke just below the surface of the block and I am afraid that The welding of a washer will damage the flat surface of the block. Any thoughts?

03-07-2012, 02:16 PM	#10
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: broken head studs Here's what I posted some time ago about how I remove broken studs. Click on the link and read reply #46. http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showth...d+studs&page=3

03-08-2012, 01:03 AM	#11
DBF 30 Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Posts: 38	Re: broken head studs Thanks everyone for all the great input. When I get ready I am going to try the welded washer and nut. Seems to hold the greatest promise. Finally got around to meeting up with the local Model A club today and met some great people. I also pulled the rest of my engine apart and found that it is on its last legs. Too much thrust on crank, babbit bearings worn thin, babbit in block slightly moving and and down to NO SHIMS left to adjust, rust pits on crank .... overall a complete rebuild required to get any kind of reliabilty. All bad news on top of the broken studs and two water jacket cracks. The good news is that today I got a lead on a low milage rebuilt engine at a resonable price. That sure helped take the sting out of all the bad news with my current engine.