King Pin Problem

[Zack]

I’m trying to install the king pin set I received from Snyder’s and I can’t get the locking bolt to set correctly. When I measure my old kingpin slots they measure .333 and the new ones at .306. As you can see I've ruined the bolt set trying to pound it in and it’s pealing back the metal. Before I call Snyders, is there something I'm doing wrong? I installed them as per Snyders website with the bearing and shim on top with the cup and felt washer on the bottom....

thanks
Zack

[Purdy Swoft]

Why not enlarge the slot ?

[wrndln]

Almost .030" is a fair amount of difference in the kingpin slots. You do have to make sure the kingpin is positioned correctly to get the retaining pin to install right. I would have thought that the manufacture of the king pins would have matched the kingpin slot with the retaining pins, especially if the slots are thinner than the normal kingpin slots. I am assuming that you used the retaining pins that came with the kingpins - correct? What brand was the kingpin kit? Was it US made? Some US made parts are not quite up to par, but most are. Chinese parts usually leave you wondering, even though American companies are responsible for some of the problems, as they want the parts CHEAP.
Rusty Nelson

[Tom Endy]

There is an article that may be of help to you. Go to the web site of the Santa Anita A's of Arcadia, California at santaanitaas.org. On the home page put your cursor on "Technical Reference", my name will appear below, click on it. A menu of articles will come up. Scroll to "King Pin Geometry" and click. This is a pdf file, you are welcome to download and print it out.

Best to scrap out your locking bolt in the photo and replace it with a new one.

Tom Endy

[wrndln]

Purdy,
I don't think I would mess with a machine slot in a very hardened kingpin, it is too critical. I would return the kingpins to Snyder's. It would probably have to be done with grinding. A few years ago I had a machine shop attempt to make a later style kingpin slot into a rounded one to use some round early retaining bolts I had to be correct for my 28 coupe. To make a long story short, the machine shop fellow chucked up the first kingpin in his milling machine and bingo, the extremely hard kingpin snapped his 9/16" milling bit. The bit was not a fragile small bit. He wasn't too happy to loose an expensive milling bit. The kingpins are made of really, really hard steel or treated to be extremely hard.
Rusty Nelson

[Mitch//pa]

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is the slot in the king pin lining up with the lock bolt hole? do you have your old locking bolt to match up? i have used these without any trouble

[Brobrian]

I don't know all the facts about your car, but I just installed new king pins in my car last weekend. After reaming out the bushings and putting the proper number of shims in and a new set of bearings, the king pin bolt slipped right in. The set of king pin hardware I purchased from Snyder's was complete with pins, bolts and bearings as well as the felt grease seal and cup. (Did you put the grease seal in between the bottom of the axle and the lower spindle hole.) So, perhaps there is a difference in the original pin width and the slot in your new pins. I'd advise checking visually to make sure with the bearings and shims in place that the slot is properly centered in the bolt hole. (If not, for example, the kingpin may not be all the way in.) And I'd advise using new bolts with new pins. Hope you get it sorted out.

[Zack]

Yes, I bought the entire spindle kit from snyders..I had the new bushings installed, honed to match the new kingpins. The locking bolt goes in about half way and then it stops. I tried the old kingpins with the old locking bolt and it goes in without trouble. It looks to me like the slot is just too small for the locking bolt. I don't know if they’re usa made or not, I just assumed they were a matching set from a reputable dealer...I’ll call them on Monday and see what they say...it’s a shame, I’ve waited awhile to find time to work on the car and now this...frustrating....

[Brobrian]

Ok, Zack, I don't know you, so don't take this the wrong way. If properly installed (Check Les Andrews book, or some other diagram of the spindle assembly for details) the Snyder kit fits. I'm guessing you've got something assembled incorrectly, or that you are perhaps driving the pin in rather that drawing it the rest of the way in with the spindle bolt nut. When I assembled this same kit, the bolts went in far enough to get a solid start with the nut on the other side. Then, by tightening the nut I was able to draw the bolt in until it was most of the way in. It does not need to be flush with the front of the axle, just securely in place.

The bolt fits the pin and then as you draw the nut tight the bolt cinches in nicely. So, the things, I'd check are that the lower side of the upper bushing, and the upper side of the lower bushing are flush with the spindle i.e. no taking up excessive space. Check that the bearing is installed open side down, and likely with two shims between the bottom of the bearing and the axle so that the bearing outer casing does not turn, in other words is snuggly fit so that the weight of the car will be resting on the bearing. After you've gotten that felt grease washer and cup in between the bottom of the axle and the bottom of the spindle ( a hassle, by the way) the whole assembly with king pin in place should be quite snug.
If you think I can be of further help, PM me and I'll give you my number. We'll talk on the phone.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Zack

..it’s a shame, I’ve waited awhile to find time to work on the car and now this...frustrating....

Imagine making your living facing this almost every day! THEN imagine how life could be if you were having to make EVERYTHING to restore your car. Yes, even though obstacles like this are encountered, it definitely is better than it could be.

[Henry1953]

I agree with Brobrian 100%. I too just finished installing the complete kit from Snyder's. You will have to draw the pin into place with the nut. It is a really tight fit but it fits and locks the king pins in tightly. Good luck

[Tom Endy]

Originally Posted by Zack

Yes, I bought the entire spindle kit from snyders..I had the new bushings installed, honed to match the new kingpins. The locking bolt goes in about half way and then it stops. I tried the old kingpins with the old locking bolt and it goes in without trouble. It looks to me like the slot is just too small for the locking bolt. I don't know if they’re usa made or not, I just assumed they were a matching set from a reputable dealer...I’ll call them on Monday and see what they say...it’s a shame, I’ve waited awhile to find time to work on the car and now this...frustrating....

The kit probably came with more shims than needed. If you tried to install all of them it could have thrown the alignment of the slot off. Try starting with no shims to see how much up and down thrust clearance you have before adding shims.

Tom Endy

[Zack]

Brobrian:
I first installed the kingpin with the bearing and 1 shim. Centered the slot and proceeded to install the lock bolt. It went in about half way and no more. I took it all apart and just put the kingpin through the spindle without the bearing, shim, felt cup and felt again centering the slot and it did the same so I don't think the shims are the problem. If I remember correctly, when I took it apart my locking bolt was flush with the axle. I'm going to call snyders Monday and ask if my kingpins may have been machined incorrectly. I'll pm you after I talk with them.
Thanks guys for all your help.

[tbirdtbird]

if needed a slot like that in hardened alloy can be gently enlarged by using a cutoff wheel and a deft touch

it would be unusual for the lock pin to be flush with the axle

[wrndln]

I have a related question about installing kingpins. Without putting wheels on the front of the car, which is a ways off for me, how do you make sure the number of shims is right. One way is to put enough the bearing doesn't turn by hand. Is this a proper way to install the right number of shims?
Rusty Nelson

[Brobrian]

Originally Posted by Zack

Brobrian:
I first installed the kingpin with the bearing and 1 shim. Centered the slot and proceeded to install the lock bolt. It went in about half way and no more. I took it all apart and just put the kingpin through the spindle without the bearing, shim, felt cup and felt again centering the slot and it did the same so I don't think the shims are the problem. If I remember correctly, when I took it apart my locking bolt was flush with the axle. I'm going to call snyders Monday and ask if my kingpins may have been machined incorrectly. I'll pm you after I talk with them.
Thanks guys for all your help.

Cool, let me know what you learn. For what it's worth, my bolts started easily as well, and pulled down snug using the nut. I felt they were tight enough with about 1/4" still sticking out the front.

[Brobrian]

Originally Posted by wrndln

I have a related question about installing kingpins. Without putting wheels on the front of the car, which is a ways off for me, how do you make sure the number of shims is right. One way is to put enough the bearing doesn't turn by hand. Is this a proper way to install the right number of shims?
Rusty Nelson

I'm no expert, but that's what the Les Andrews book said to do. He also noted that the some newer bearings are not as thick as the originals and thus may need two shims. When I installed mine on the driver's side, I tried it with one shim first, but the bearing still turned by hand, so I added one more and it was properly tight. On the passenger side, I just added two from the start.