Old style distributor

[Dkrahn]

So, somewhere along the path my 1929 Model A pickup got the condenser mounted on the firewall. It is the new condenser that is "wired" from the wire in the old style distributor. I am looking to possibly switching back to "original look ". Just not sure how that looks. I can purchase old condenser and mount in the old distributer once I see a picture of how that looks. Does someone have a link or picture - with details - of what the old style distributor looks like? Opinions on old versus new condenser would also be of value to me.

[J Franklin]

You would be miles ahead if you were to purchase a few good model A manuals. First get a copy of the owners manual.

[Bob from Northport]

Please post a photo or two of this set up. This I have to see.

[Dkrahn]

I have several manuals. I just haven't seen any with a picture with details.

[Bob C]

Here's a picture.

[40-A Twins]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

from Brattons website
https://www.brattons.com/DISTRIBUTOR...uctinfo/AD-08/

[wwirz]

I had the original set up with the condenser mounted just above the engine head in the distributor. This also requires the original condenser.
You can read in FORDBARN about the problems people have with condenser in the old style. The condenser gets hot in the original location and then shorts. This causes missing and backfiring.
I got around this problem by upgrading to a modern lower and upper plate. This has several advantages:
. Moves the condenser from a hot environment to a cooler environment just under the distributor cap
. The points and condenser are readily stocked at auto parts stores (and at Model A parts distributors) in case of emergency.
. eliminates the wire coming from the lower plate to the points.
I know this change to the modern set up generates much dialogue but since I made this change, I have not had one issue with the points or condenser failing.

I think what you have is another alternative to the condenser failing issue which is to mount to the firewall (for ground) and them run the pigtail wire to the coil. I have this in my car as well for a "roadside fix" if necessary.
There are diagrams on FORDBARN for the condenser mounted on the firewall.

I hope this helps.

[Dkrahn]

Thank you, I think either way condensers will need to be replaced. I have the wire coming out of the back side of the "original condenser" and spliced into a wire, from the new condenser mounted on the firewall.
Appreciate your help

[Synchro909]

I have gone the other way. Someone, sometime has played around with "modern" points and left no room for a condenser on the plate. I took the easy route and mounted one on the firewall right next to the coil. Who says the condenser has to be in the distributor?
Needless to say, my car is a driver and practical is trumps.

[redmodelt]

" Who says the condenser has to be in the distributor?" Not by me! Would not be the first or last time someone has mounted one there.

[nkaminar]

I will second what wwriz said in post #7. I will add that it helps to polish the rotor (don't change the profile) to extend the life of the points, and keep the rotor lubricated with a good quality grease, such as https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/p...6361&cat=41666.

Modern points kit can be found here: https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/p...6317&cat=41666

Dummy condensor that looks like original can be found here: https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/p...6369&cat=41666

My first Model A had original Ford points and condensor and they lasted as long as I owned the car, several year and several thousand miles. I did not have to fiddle with them. That was 60 years ago. Today it is hard to find quality points and condensors, although some are better than others. The modern replacements last a lot longer and are more reliable than the repos. I run them in my car and don't have to adjust the points more than once every 5,000 miles or so. With the dummy condensor you cannot tell the difference from the outside.

[chrs1961815]

My experience rebuilding many distributors is that the stock set up works fine. The heat only affects the condenser when it is a low quality part. The A&L burnproof condensers go for many many miles without needing replacement. Cheaper ones have poorer quality internals that can't handle the heat.

[wwirz]

Originally Posted by chrs1961815

My experience rebuilding many distributors is that the stock set up works fine. The heat only affects the condenser when it is a low quality part. The A&L burnproof condensers go for many many miles without needing replacement. Cheaper ones have poorer quality internals that can't handle the heat.

Could never figure out how to purchase a condenser from A&L. I wanted to....but could not do it. DO you have a contact or way to do this?

[chrs1961815]

A&L used to sell to the public but now they only sell their stuff wholesale to the vendors. So the burnout condensers from Snyders and Brattons are both A&L products.

[Dkrahn]

Ok, so now I am putting in the old style condenser. I had also pulled off the distributor cam screw and upper plate for observation. Never pulled or unlocked the distributor
When I go to put the cam back on the shaft it seems odd it spins on the shift and does not lock down except by the cam screw. I looked in Les Andrew's book and it is not explained there. Whats not right?

[lrf]

dkrahn, the cam spins on the upper shaft, that's how you adjust the rotor and timing. Once the rotor is positioned correctly, remove the rotor and tighten down the cam screw, there is a thin lock washer that goes under the cam screw needed to keep the screw tight,
don't forget to replace the rotor (something we've all done). Good luck and Drive and Enjoy your "A". LRF

[Dkrahn]

Thank u..something still aint right, as I seem to not getting spark. I changed from new style condenser on firewall to old style, slide in distributor hole. Is condenser making a connection inside somewhere by just sliding into hole on side of distributor?

[chrs1961815]

If you have no spark, it has something to do with the power from the ignition switch, to the cable, to the lower plate it makes contact with.

[Dkrahn]

According to condenser test, it says "shorted condenser "..yet brand new

[nkaminar]

See post #11. Also see https://www.mafca.com/downloads/Semi...ex%20Janke.pdf.

Test the condensor out of the distributor. If still bad, get another one. If good there is a short somewhere else. If the condensor is really shorted you should be able to tell with a multimeter.

Is there someone nearby that you can ask to help?

[Bob C]

Originally Posted by Dkrahn

Thank u..something still aint right, as I seem to not getting spark. I changed from new style condenser on firewall to old style, slide in distributor hole. Is condenser making a connection inside somewhere by just sliding into hole on side of distributor?

Did you install the screw and washer that connects the condenser
to the lower plate?

[bruceincam]

Originally Posted by Dkrahn

Thank u..something still aint right, as I seem to not getting spark. I changed from new style condenser on firewall to old style, slide in distributor hole. Is condenser making a connection inside somewhere by just sliding into hole on side of distributor?

No --- the condenser needs to be attached to the lower plate with a screw inserted from the driver's side of the distributor. Did you attach that screw? A second screw inserted through the tab on the condenser on the pass side attaches the condenser to the body of the distributor. One screw on each side.

How did you time the engine when you reinstalled the distributor cam and the rotor?

[bruceincam]

Duplicate post --- deleted

[Patrick L.]

What do you have now ? Old original type distributor or the new 'modern' upper
plate ?
We need a base to work from.
It makes no difference where the condenser is mounted, I think its a good idea to have the spare mounted at the coil but not connected until its needed to get you home.
If you want to use an original type then its going to be best I think for you to pull the distributor out and use your work bench.
Since you removed the cam you'll need to set the timing.

When installing/setting the points use a good point/cam grease. Just a dab will do ya and reset the points [ if new] every couple hundred miles until the points block and cam lobes get used to each other.

There can also be an issue with new condensers, I recently went thru 5 before I had a good one. Check them before installing them.

[katy]

Originally Posted by bruceincam

the condenser needs to be attached to the lower plate with a screw inserted from the driver's side of the distributor.

Part # 12 in Bratton's diagram, link in post #6

[Dkrahn]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

I have the old style distributor. I inserted the old style condenser in the distributor, locked it down on the passenger side, as well as used the screw and fiber washer on the drivers side. Was not getting any spark. I did the condenser test, and it says "condenser grounded". Coil tests good. I then went back to my original set up, connecting a new style condenser, from the firewall to the hole on the backside of the old style condenser. Set the timing and it starts up. I want to be able to use old condenser. I hear that the condenser needs to be "attached to the lower plate". I have put the screw and fiber washer on. Is there a wire or something that should connect from lower plate to that screw? Will be able to go look at it again in hour or so.

[nkaminar]

see https://www.mafca.com/downloads/Semi...ex%20Janke.pdf

And https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QjYSU5EUDs

And https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GP7Bk9Fa-B4

And https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKZwX0klifI

[Dkrahn]

Originally Posted by Bob C

Did you install the screw and washer that connects the condenser
to the lower plate?

I put the screw and the washer on the back end of the condenser. I don't see where or how it makes a connection to the lower plate. That is why I am asking if there is some connection I need to put on that screw and washer.

[Patrick L.]

Have you looked at the Bratton diagram as shown in post #6 ?

[Dkrahn]

Originally Posted by Patrick L.

Have you looked at the Bratton diagram as shown in post #6 ?

yes several times. It does not go into detail of how the distributor makes the connection to the lower plate. That is why I am asking. I installed the screw and fiber washer. There is nothing connected to that screw, so I am asking how it makes that connection - without me pulling the distributor apart I thought someone could answer that specific question.

[Patrick L.]

The diagram does show everything. Taking out the distributor as previously mentioned should be done and makes this much easier/faster. It comes out in a couple minutes.

[katy]

Originally Posted by Dkrahn

I installed the screw and fiber washer. There is nothing connected to that screw,

That screw should go through the "buss" bar on the lower plate and then into the condenser. With the condenser removed you should be able to see the "buss" bar by looking in the hole on the side of the distributor.

[nkaminar]

The fact that there is "nothing connected to that screw" and that he is getting a shorted condensor reading makes me wonder if that is the reason that the condensor was mounted on the firewall. I think Dkrahn needs to take the distributor apart and perhaps buy a new lower plate.

[Conaway2]

Originally Posted by Dkrahn

Thank u..something still aint right, as I seem to not getting spark. I changed from new style condenser on firewall to old style, slide in distributor hole. Is condenser making a connection inside somewhere by just sliding into hole on side of distributor?

You do need to use a screw inside the distributor body to attach the condenser to the lower plate. Without that electrical connection, you will probably get no spark.

There is a hole on the side of the distributor where the screw can be attached and fastened. It can be tricky to do - I use a screwdriver with an expanding blade to hold the screw onto the screwdriver long enough to get the screw started. The screw fastens into the threaded brass nipple on the end of the condenser.

Good luck !
Jim

[katy]

Here's a picture of the lower plate, taken from Bratton's online catalogue. The long piece, away from the wire connection, is where the the screw that fastens to the condenser goes. There should be a hole in it there.

https://www.brattons.com/DISTRIBUTOR...uctinfo/17270/

[katy]

Here's a better picture, from Snyders

[Bob C]

Well here's a way better picture from Bert's.

[Smooth_One]

Originally Posted by Bob C

Here's a picture.

Is this for the electronic ignition?

[Smooth_One]

Originally Posted by nkaminar

The fact that there is "nothing connected to that screw" and that he is getting a shorted condensor reading makes me wonder if that is the reason that the condensor was mounted on the firewall. I think Dkrahn needs to take the distributor apart and perhaps buy a new lower plate.

Think that lower plate is shorting out? Happens a lot to some guys it seams like.

[Rob Doe]

The buss may have been cut off. I cut mine off when installing a Nurex lower and upper plate.

[Dkrahn]

Originally Posted by Smooth_One

Think that lower plate is shorting out? Happens a lot to some guys it seams like.

I removed the screw and put "the plug" in that hole, per the restore guide says. And it runs like a champ again..

[Dkrahn]

Originally Posted by Conaway2

You do need to use a screw inside the distributor body to attach the condenser to the lower plate. Without that electrical connection, you will probably get no spark.

There is a hole on the side of the distributor where the screw can be attached and fastened. It can be tricky to do - I use a screwdriver with an expanding blade to hold the screw onto the screwdriver long enough to get the screw started. The screw fastens into the threaded brass nipple on the end of the condenser.

Good luck !
Jim

I removed the screw and put "the plug" in that hole, per the restore guide says. And it runs like a champ again..

[sugarhill1955]

Thanks

[nkaminar]

Dkrahn, I am glad you got it running well. Congratulations. But I am a little bit confused by what you mean by "the plug." Please post some photos if you can.

[Smooth_One]

Originally Posted by Dkrahn

I removed the screw and put "the plug" in that hole, per the restore guide says. And it runs like a champ again..

Good to hear. Well done.

[katy]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Originally Posted by Smooth_One

Is this for the electronic ignition?

Stock