Pertronix Nightmare

[1948F-1Pickup]

Originally Posted by Lawrie

This is a long shoot, I have asked petronox if the unit will trigger an MSD street fire unit , they said yes it will ,so have worded one.
Has any one done this, and its not for the 33 or 34 its for a customers rod.
Lawrie

Have not, as MSD hadn't even thought up the Street Fire piece 20+ years ago but I did use an original Pertronix 1 (Perlux) to trigger some of the older Jacobs boxes.
Heat and improper grounding are the slow killers of the 1st gen units.
Also, on the gen 1 units, if the item is all by itself, don't leave the ignition on with the engine not running.....

[Ronnieroadster]

Originally Posted by Lawrie

This is a long shoot, I have asked petronox if the unit will trigger an MSD street fire unit , they said yes it will ,so have worded one.
Has any one done this, and its not for the 33 or 34 its for a customers rod.
Lawrie

Lawrie I'm confused as to why anyone would want to use the Pertronix with anything other than a Pertronix item. The customer should be guided to using the Pertronix Second Strike unit. Its superior to anything MSD has to offer.
To answer a question one would like to ask yes I use the Second Strike and have had no failures. I cannot say the same for anything MSD related since I have had many failures with MSD items. Since going complexly with Pertronix many years ago the failures have stoped.
Ronnieroadster

[Lawrie]

Ronnie, thanks for that info,
this is on a customers car, and he had the msd street fire and a e fire distributor, the setup would only fire 5 cyls, I have found the fault and at least got it to run using the old MSD distributor from my dragsters that can't stay on the car, I never knew there was a u nit like you mentioned and will look that up. thanks

[richard crow]

the orignal system works great why look for truble

[Ronnieroadster]

Originally Posted by Lawrie

Ronnie, thanks for that info,
this is on a customers car, and he had the msd street fire and a e fire distributor, the setup would only fire 5 cyls, I have found the fault and at least got it to run using the old MSD distributor from my dragsters that can't stay on the car, I never knew there was a u nit like you mentioned and will look that up. thanks

Your Welcome Lawrie. I use the Second Strike with great success on my race car also so far with the Pertronix ignition and Second Strike we have set 8 records the top speed with the flathead over 219 MPH the speed with the ARDUN is over 225 MPH. Their parts work perfectly.
Ronnieroadster

[Lawrie]

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Ronnie, the set up was on a 221 ci flathead with a 471 and 3 x 97 on it, so I need to replace the 471 with a 3 carb manifold , I have it temp going with my spare manifold with a Big 97 fitted, and the MSD from the dragsters at least now it runs but has detonation evidence on some plugs and leaking head gaskets, so heads will be off this arvo.
I have made an enquiry re the petronix set up.
Lawrie

[Holeshot]

Originally Posted by richard crow

the orignal system works great why look for truble

Exactly

[Ronnieroadster]

Originally Posted by richard crow

the orignal system works great why look for truble

Some times technology is a good thing especially when your running a modified combination. When the correct improved parts are used there's no trouble at all.
Ronnieroadster

[Bored&Stroked]

The stock ignition system works great on a stock engine - or almost any street build (depending on RPMs). If they're setup with high quality components, they will run up to the RPM limits that most hot-rodders on the street will hit.

When you start getting into much higher RPM builds, race engines, etc. - there are improved ignitions that can take the RPM, have high spark energy, etc.. I run mostly magnetos on most of my race style engines as well as the MSD ProGrid and a MSD distributor on some setups. I have not had issues with my MSD ignitions - other than one bad coil.

I also run a MSD 20 Amp ProMag on one of my race engines (blown alcohol) and it makes a difference when you're trying to burn a lot of fuel under boost.

[Nailhead Jeff]

I have had terrible issues with pertronix products. I gained 17 rear wheel HP going back to points on a big block Chevy in a Camaro. Sent ignitor back to pertronix and it tested fine. Most will work fine on a distributor tester, put them in an engine firing a plug and they won't hold steady timing. That variation in timing is costing you power.

[Crankster]

Was that an "original recipe" Ignitor, or was it one of those fancy pants variable dwell & rev limited variants?

The Ignitor I is about as simple as it gets and the particular one I always recommend to people who just want to get away from points & condenser ignition for whatever reason. For racing stuff, well I dunno that's outta my wheelhouse.

It's kind of interesting if you think about it - the Hall effect sensor is today about as far removed or obsolete as points were/are, compared to where electronics are today. Cadillac introduced contact points in 1910, the Hall sensor (via IC) about 1960.

The disadvantages with a simple electronic "switch" (that's all a Hall effect sensor is) would be the same as ignition points or mechanical switching - a fixed dwell period that it is selected as a compromise. The same unit I bought in 1997 has worked fine for thousands of miles up till today. I know now points can be made to work fine obviously, but back then I didn't understand that, couldn't figure out that a loosey goosey junkbox worn out distributor will never hold the dwell, and on a Y-Block, the distributor is way back against the firewall. My back started to protest! And I fell for the "never change points again!" advertising.

It would be interesting to see some dyno tests (or emissions) with the Ignitor I versus contact points in comparison, it would be tough for me to believe the electronic modules would perform any worse in that situation.

[1948F-1Pickup]

Originally Posted by Crankster

The disadvantages with a simple electronic "switch" (that's all a Hall effect sensor is) would be the same as ignition points or mechanical switching - a fixed dwell period that it is selected as a compromise.

Hall effect items are subject to greater instability in the hot environment inside the distributor but I have no data to substantiate. By comparison the points are rock steady in heat but suffer dwell difference over time due to rubbing block wear, contact erosion and point bounce..... if any real rpm is involved. And then there's the condensor, if there's one inside the distributor. Those aren't completely impervious to heat.

Originally Posted by Crankster

It would be interesting to see some dyno tests (or emissions) with the Ignitor I versus contact points in comparison, it would be tough for me to believe the electronic modules would perform any worse in that situation.

I've never seen anything substantial. The current Executive Order that the Pertronix 1 is under is pretty "dumbed down" as far as test results. The original name used was Perlux and that one has a greater amount of data available from ARB's testing back in the 70's-

https://arb.parts/Executive-Order/D-57.pdf

[Crankster]

Thanks for that link. That's about the coolest thing I've seen all day, though it's still early yet.

[hotrodart]

Pertronix has been beat to death several times on this forum (and on HAMB)......Most failures have been traced to improper installation/incompatible coils.



I have used the P-1 version for over 25 years on the 327/375 (Rochester FI) engine in my '40 coupe with zero issues. My reason for ditching the dual points was bounce and premature wear at high RPMs.



My son's 302 SBC off-road Trans-America engine has used a P-II version since they were offered for sale, without any issues. It has a Corvette dual point fully mechanical distributor converted to Pertronix and functions very well up to 7500 RPM.


I have found both versions to be very stable through the RPM range, and reliable.

[deuce_roadster]

I think the 12 v guys with no problems probably have an alternator on the engine. My limited understanding is that the Pertronix systems don't like the voltage variance a generator puts out compared to an alternator. Maybe that issue has been addressed.

[hotrodart]

Originally Posted by deuce_roadster

I think the 12 v guys with no problems probably have an alternator on the engine. My limited understanding is that the Pertronix systems don't like the voltage variance a generator puts out compared to an alternator. Maybe that issue has been addressed.

One data point on 6 volt units.....my brother has an early version on his '36 Ford, 6 volts w/generator........always starts immediately, never any issues.

[Ronnieroadster]

Originally Posted by deuce_roadster

I think the 12 v guys with no problems probably have an alternator on the engine. My limited understanding is that the Pertronix systems don't like the voltage variance a generator puts out compared to an alternator. Maybe that issue has been addressed.

Having personally converted a lot of 6 volt distributers to Pertroxix I can say a generator will not cause a failure. Failures experienced are what others have written leave the ignition on with out starting, incorrect coil or ignition wires.

The Pertronix system is so simple to use and extremely reliable and also responsible for incredibly fast speeds by many users.
Ronnieroadster

[aussie merc]

This all seems to be coming back to an underlying issue that 1 instructions issued by the supplier are not specific enough in the cans and cants 2 people being people tend to think installation instructions are only the suppliers opinion 3 most of us dont under stand fully how some of these so call advances in technology actually work and their limitations also i havent heard of any supplier listing a complete kit [ignition unit any filters required coil and lead sets this would remove a large portion of what seems to be common errors

[21stud]

Originally Posted by aussie merc

just curious if you run an alternator or generator Mallory use to supply a little red box called a power cell they said fitment was optional on alternator but mandatory with generator due to the fact that gen voltage regs are mechanical and therefore create micro spikes when they work and their electronics don't like it

Interesting, do you have part number or instructions about this power cell? I'd like to get more info about this please?

[aussie merc]

21Stud your looking for Mallory 611 power cell or mallory power cell [active filter] part no 29531 hope this helps