Blocked cracked

[oldredford]

Just brought home a complete 31 chassis with engine. Blasted the block and found a crack below the water pump. Usual place for freeze cracks. Can these cracks in this location be weld repaired?

[1930artdeco]

We used JB weld on mine and it held for years. Just clean and follow the directions.

Mike

[JohnLaVoy]

JB weld is a common repair for that area.

[C26Pinelake]

Five y arms later JB Weld still holding. Wayne

[VFRhugh]

I had the same experience with a 31 chassis I bought this spring. I had the engine upside down to check crank and rod clearances. Picked at a little rust spot and found a big chunk of JB weld. Someone had ground out a crack and filled it with the JB weld. I figured if it was already rusted I might as well remove the patch. I found a retired industrial welder with cast iron experience who welded it up for $50. My block has been tested to 50 psig. Currently have 500 miles on this engine with no problems yet so it can be done.
Good luck with your engine,
Hugh

[tbirdtbird]

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very few can properly weld cast iron. A leak in this area is from not using antifreeze, and is all too common.
Grind out the crack a little, clean it well with lacquer thinner, and JB weld or other high quality epoxy such as Devcon, etc, will work well here. There is no pressure in the system. Typically the slower setting epoxies are stronger, BTW

were the engine out of the car it could be stitched, which is the best repair of all

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by tbirdtbird

very few can properly weld cast iron. A leak in this area is from not using antifreeze, and is all too common.
Grind out the crack a little, clean it well with lacquer thinner, and JB weld or other high quality epoxy such as Devcon, etc, will work well here. There is no pressure in the system. Typically the slower setting epoxies are stronger, BTW

were the engine out of the car it could be stitched, which is the best repair of all

Tbird,
In High School, I found that gas welding cast iron, with the proper flux, was not difficult for me. The area has to be ground CLEAN, V'd out, if necessary & the rod will flow like BUTTER, & little bits of the flux will come to the top, like tiny BB's.
I've also done it with Nickel-Arc rod, with some pre heating of the area & peening it several times, during the welding process.
Twice, I was a welders' helper, for 2 Old Time welders & lurned SO MUCH, that you don't get in Vocational Classes!
Bill W.

[George Miller]

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

Tbird,
In High School, I found that gas welding cast iron, with the proper flux, was not difficult for me. The area has to be ground CLEAN, V'd out, if necessary & the rod will flow like BUTTER, & little bits of the flux will come to the top, like tiny BB's.
I've also done it with Nickel-Arc rod, with some pre heating of the area & peening it several times, during the welding process.
Twice, I was a welders' helper, for 2 Old Time welders & lurned SO MUCH, that you don't get in Vocational Classes!
Bill W.

I also used gas, reworked a intake for two carbs. This was when I was a teen. now I also use Nickel rod. But I,m not a real welder. I call myself a farm welder.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Some "FARM WELDERS" are GENIUS welders!!!!! Main thing is to KNOW & MANAGE your heat.
Bill W.

[H. L. Chauvin]

Hi oldredford,

FWIW:

I have witnessed 18 year old mechanics, carpenters, plumbers, brick layers, roofers, plasters, tile setters, electricians, artists, musicians, draftsmen, skeet shooters, trap shooters, etc., etc., who had far better dexterity & skills at this young age than guys with over 30 years of dedicated experience.

Most old guys we all knew when we were young who could successfully amaze others with outstanding results were those who refrained from listening to the do's & don'ts of formal educators and just tried to see if they had certain gifts and talent to perform tasks in their areas of interest.

Hope this can help some Model A youngster one day to never be afraid of trying something new ........ one day ...... you could easily be the old guys we once knew that could do just about anything.

[George Miller]

Yes there are a lot of people out there that say you can not do it that way.

When I was working and had machinist working for me. Some would get ten years experience in one year. Some got one year of experience in 10 years.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Some "vocational" teachers are ones that could NOT make it in their trade, in the REAL WORLD!
Bill W.

[H. L. Chauvin]

FWIW:

Just one (1) of many "vintage" cast iron welding methods:

I have a hard cover book published about in 1920 or so, written to describe methods of providing acetylene gas welding.

One part is dedicated to the successful welding of 1920's or so cracked, cast iron engine blocks.

To resolve the biggest problems, (i.e., shrinkage cracks occurring away from the heated/welded cracked, cast iron area as it cools), the entire engine block was heated by placing it on and covering it with hot coals from a wood fire.

The engine was next lifted, welded, and quickly placed back in the coals to cool very slowly along with the heated coals.

[ursus]

Welding on a block can be tricky and I would personally hesitate to seek out a weld repair where JB weld would suffice and this is because I don't know of anybody who I would trust to do it. Some years ago there was a local shop that employed an old guy who could pour babbitt and skillfully weld cast iron. He had a gas fired oven and would heat the casting overnight before making the weld repair, then return the block to the oven for gradual cooling off. About 20 years ago the shop was purchased by a younger guy that had no interest in this kind of work. The oven was soon moved out to make space for something else and not long afterward the old guy suffered a stroke and passed away. He left behind a couple of large sheet metal boxes filled with K.R. Wilson babbitting tools that the owner sold off for peanuts to a used tool broker. That was the end of that.

[Halswell]

I have written about this before on the barn but I dont think any one believes me:- Clean up the cracked area vee out a little, till cast iron is really clean. Make up a strong copper sulphite solution and paint it on the area to be repaired. After a while wash off excess and this should leave a fine deposit of copper on the cast iron. Now tin carefully as for soldering and solder up the crack. This if done properly will not give trouble as that part of the block should not get above the boiling point of water and below the melting point of solder.
This was taught to me by an American welding engineer on a course I attended about 40 years ago. Good for cracked cast iron cooking pots, Kettles, and blocks with rods through the crank case. Happy Motoring.

[J and M Machine]

Originally Posted by oldredford

Just brought home a complete 31 chassis with engine. Blasted the block and found a crack below the water pump. Usual place for freeze cracks. Can these cracks in this location be weld repaired?

Yes the block can be repaired.
If you have never done cast iron welding I wouldn't suggest doing it.
We repair the blocks by metal stitching.

I would suggest taking block apart as there may be other places block is cracked.
As shown in the link this is the crack that you're mentioning. Common area.
http://www.jandm-machine.com/metalStitching.html


http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/pictur...ictureid=25146

[redmodelt]

RE" I have written about this before on the barn but I dont think any one believes me:- Clean up the cracked area vee out a little, till cast iron is really clean. Make up a strong copper sulphite solution and paint it on the area to be repaired. After a while wash off excess and this should leave a fine deposit of copper on the cast iron. Now tin carefully as for soldering and solder up the crack. This if done properly will not give trouble as that part of the block should not get above the boiling point of water and below the melting point of solder.
This was taught to me by an American welding engineer on a course I attended about 40 years ago. Good for cracked cast iron cooking pots, Kettles, and blocks with rods through the crank case. Happy Motoring."

I have seen a very similar set of instructions about soldering a crack in cast iron, only it said to rub a copper penny (real) in the crack to deposit copper then solder. It was in an older book, from the 20's.

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

Some "vocational" teachers are ones that could NOT make it in their trade, in the REAL WORLD!
Bill W.

Bill, That reminds me of a saying I first heard years ago: "Those that can, do. Those who can't, teach." Later someone added: "Those who can't teach, administrate."

[5window]

Originally Posted by Halswell

I have written about this before on the barn but I dont think any one believes me:- Clean up the cracked area vee out a little, till cast iron is really clean. Make up a strong copper sulphite solution and paint it on the area to be repaired. After a while wash off excess and this should leave a fine deposit of copper on the cast iron. Now tin carefully as for soldering and solder up the crack. This if done properly will not give trouble as that part of the block should not get above the boiling point of water and below the melting point of solder.
This was taught to me by an American welding engineer on a course I attended about 40 years ago. Good for cracked cast iron cooking pots, Kettles, and blocks with rods through the crank case. Happy Motoring.

Very cool. Good tip. Thanks.

[5window]

Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe

Bill, That reminds me of a saying I first heard years ago: "Those that can, do. Those who can't, teach." Later someone added: "Those who can't teach, administrate."

Well, now. Let's be fair. there are many excellent vo-tech schools out there teaching valuable skills. I think we can all agree that modern technology is pretty complex. Many of the modern forms of equipment require different skills than 80 years ago and some of those are pretty hard to acquire by trial and error.

Knowing how to weld cast iron is a bit the same as finding a part at NAPA for an old car. There just isn't a big demand, so it's not something that's readily available. Excepting a few rare places, for the most part you've got to know, or carry, what will make you a living.