What's needed to put in a 8BA replacing a 59A

[dad's deuce roadster]

As always, I plead newbie status here, so please bare with with me.

Per some of my other threads, due to a crack in the block of what I assume is a 59A engine (see avatar) in my fathers 50's hot rod 32 roadster, the replacement block we have found is an 8BA. I have questions about what we will need in addition to the block to use it.

I know we'll need a bell housing. I have found there is more than one style. What do we need to check to ensure we get the right one?

Is there anything we will need in addition to the bell housing to bolt up to the transmission? I assume the transmission is the 32 original, but if not, would there have been any other 3 speed transmission put it this prior to about 1956 which would make a difference in getting the right bell housing and other parts, if any, to bolt to the tranny.

The 8BA doesn't have an oil pan. I assume there are reproductions. Are any very good or should we hunt for an original.

Lastly, we plan to use the Sharp heads that were on the 59A (again assuming that's what it was). I have read that some mods are needed to put 59A heads onto a 8BA block. The mods deal with plugging a couple water ports on the block and one on one of the heads, which seems wierd. It is correct?

I think that covers my questions. But if there are any other issues, please let me know.

[Mart]

You need a pickup truck half bell and the associated starter plate. (I believe this is right, I've never done it.)
What I have done though, is convert a French motor to a 59A clone.

Use 59A gaskets and heads. Plug port in Block but make sure plug sits proud and can be filed flush.
Use sealed bearing type replacement water pumps. 59A will not work due to no oil supply.
Use 59A type front pulley.
Can't say about fans as I run electric.
I covered a lot of the jobs in a recent video series where I put a French motor in my 41 pickup.

Here's a link to the first video in the series. https://youtu.be/LsDXGco2E_8

Mart.

[Gene1949]

Since you are going to change out the block anyways I would go with the early T-10 4 speed (bolts up to the stock 8ba bell housing) and use an open driveline rear end.
A lot less hassle and far more drivable and reliable.

[tubman]

A little clarification as to bell housings. You can use either '48-'53 Ford pickup (cast iron) or '49 to early '51 Mercury (pressed steel). The main difference is that you can use an 11" clutch with the truck bell housing, while it will not fit in the Mercury unit. You wouldn't want to use an 11" clutch on a light hot rod anyway. Make sur you get the matching starter plate; The first Merc bell housing I bought was missing the starter plate and it took me three years to find a matching one at a reasonable price (the smart guys keep them in matched sets).

[Gene1949]

Th 8ba distributor allows you to use an electric fan. You might wanna consider the MSD "all in one" electronic distributor.

[vulture]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

As @tubman has said you’re going to need a matching set of bell and starter plate. As for the rest of the motor original motor mounts will work and just a bolt on. The use of early heads on a late motor will make you’ll need a few modifications . There’s a hole in the block for water that will need to be tapped and plug put in. Also a provision for the hold down for the distributor a simple set screw in the housing.
The waterpump and fan setup is a choice up to you . You can go early with a single wide belt or with the 8ba two pulley setup. The nice thing you can run the mechanical fan on both setups without using a electric fan.

[tubman]

One specific that no one has mentioned yet is water pumps. Te best application is to use '48'-53 truck pumps; they will bolt right on the engine and the earlier frame mounts, but you will have to go to a single wide fan belt. '49-'51 Mercury pumps will work, but their mounting "ears" are higher up, so motor mount spacers will be needed. One esoteric feature some may want to consider is the ability to use two narrow belts with the later Merc pumps. I have also seen adapters that allow '49-'53 Ford water pumps to be used with the original mounts, but that always seemed a little to funky for me.

The truck pumps are easy to find, as they are currently (or at least recently) being manufactured.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by tubman

A little clarification as to bell housings. You can use either '48-'53 Ford pickup (cast iron) or '49 to early '51 Mercury (pressed steel). The main difference is that you can use an 11" clutch with the truck bell housing, while it will not fit in the Mercury unit. You wouldn't want to use an 11" clutch on a light hot rod anyway. Make sur you get the matching starter plate; The first Merc bell housing I bought was missing the starter plate and it took me three years to find a matching one at a reasonable price (the smart guys keep them in matched sets).

The '49 thru Mid '51 Mercury STAMPED STEEL bell and it's accompanying starter plate in FIRST picture.





Cast Iron Truck Version and accompanying starter plate in SECOND picture.







.

[Bored&Stroked]

It also depends on what you want the complete motor to "look like". If you want to use an 8BA block, but want it to look like an earlier engine, then there are a few more things that I'd do. Personally, I like the look of the 32-48 engines in a 32 Hotrod . . . and there are some important things to consider:

1) Front-mount distributor: This makes it easy to run the fan belt right against the block - just like they did in 32. This means that you can make the whole front of the engine look/function like an earlier engine. Everything fits better if you do it this way.

2) Cam/Gears: You'd need to run an earlier style cam - with the T-slot in the front. This is needed for the front-mount distributor. You'll probably be putting in a new cam anyway, so get the correct cam for the earlier engine - for a crab style distributor. Given that the cam thrust on the earlier engines was toward the block, you'll need to use the earlier cam/crank gears instead of the 49-53 gears. You probably already have a set from your prior engine.

3) Timing Cover: You'll use the earlier timing cover for the crab style distributor.

4) Water Pumps: As others noted, you can use the 37-48 water pumps if the front of the engine is being setup as a 59AB style. You'll need the modern sealed bearing versions - most of us recommend having 'Skip' rebuild the earlier pumps. You'll have better cooling and sealed bearings.

5) Intake and Fan: I prefer to run an original 32 Fan - in the original location. Depending on what intake manifold you're running, you may also be able to run a generator in the original location - with the fan mounted on the front. Original 32 fans are not cheap, but they sure do work nice in a 32.

6) Motor mounts: You can use the original front 32 motor mounts. Given where/how they mount, you don't care about the water pump mounts (you won't use them). I take the water pumps and cut the mounting "horns" off - just to clean things up.

7) Oil Pan: What I'm not sure of is if there are any issues with the 32 tie-rod and 49-53 oil pans??? You may need a rear-sump pan . . . and there may be some mods necessary for tie-rod clearance? Somebody else can chime in on this.

8) Oil Vapor Breather System: If you're going to make the engine look like a 59AB, then you need to consider the oil breather system. I'd recommend running a PCV valve as the original 49-53 breather system is quite a bit different than a 59AB and is quite unsightly in the above combination. Do some searches on the BARN about PCV systems - there are quite a few good threads. Don't make the mistake of NOT putting a PCV into the mix - or you'll not really have any pan evacuation system and this is not good.

Enough out of me . . .

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by tubman

'49-'51 Mercury pumps will work, but their mounting "ears" are higher up, so motor mount spacers will be needed.

These are the FACTORY spacers, although others imitating this "U" configuration are available. The holes in this factory spacer are OFFSET. DD

[tubman]

About the '32 front mounts; when I cleaned up the block on the '51 Merc I did, I noticed these threaded holes in the front to the block. On further investigation, I found they were for the original '32 mounts. I was amazed that they still put them there.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by tubman

About the '32 front mounts; when I cleaned up the block on the '51 Merc I did, I noticed these threaded holes in the front to the block. On further investigation, I found they were for the original '32 mounts. I was amazed that they still put them there.

This is likely one of the reasons the holes were continued. The gizmos on rear of block are likely the adapters used to run-in the reciprocating assemblies with huge electric motors after assembly. DD

[V8COOPMAN]

.


And the ORIGINAL use of those holes as Denny noted. DD

[tubman]

I guess Henry never wasted anything, even a hole.

[38 coupe]

One important issue that I haven't seen mentioned yet is the length of the front crankshaft pulley. Stock 32 has a very short crank pulley and the crank pulley is still right up next to the front cross member. You have to cut a piece of the cross member out to put an 8BA crank pulley in there. You can cut the front pulley off a 59A pulley to fit it in the stock space.

[Bill OH]

I use the right side mounting holes to mount a fabricated timing pointer that I use on my 81a.

[69a]

I have built two 8BA's using 59A heads and 8RT water pumps. I have only ever had to put one plug in the front of the right cylinder head. You can figure out which hole by putting the 59A gasket on the 8BA block. I've never had to put a plug in the block.

[dad's deuce roadster]

Thank-you all for the scope of information provided. I've listed portions of some of your replies with comments and/or questions

Originally Posted by Mart

You need a pickup truck half bell and the associated starter plate. (I believe this is right, I've never done it.)
What I have done though, is convert a French motor to a 59A clone.

Use 59A gaskets and heads. Plug port in Block but make sure plug sits proud and can be filed flush.
Use sealed bearing type replacement water pumps. 59A will not work due to no oil supply.
Use 59A type front pulley.
Can't say about fans as I run electric.
I covered a lot of the jobs in a recent video series where I put a French motor in my 41 pickup.

Here's a link to the first video in the series. https://youtu.be/LsDXGco2E_8

Mart.

Mart I'll definitely check out the videos

Originally Posted by Gene1949

Since you are going to change out the block anyways I would go with the early T-10 4 speed (bolts up to the stock 8ba bell housing) and use an open driveline rear end.
A lot less hassle and far more drivable and reliable.

Gene, this brings up the question, will the existing tranny bolt up or will we need some type of adapter if we stick with the 3 speed for now.

Originally Posted by tubman

A little clarification as to bell housings. You can use either '48-'53 Ford pickup (cast iron) or '49 to early '51 Mercury (pressed steel). The main difference is that you can use an 11" clutch with the truck bell housing, while it will not fit in the Mercury unit. You wouldn't want to use an 11" clutch on a light hot rod anyway. Make sur you get the matching starter plate; The first Merc bell housing I bought was missing the starter plate and it took me three years to find a matching one at a reasonable price (the smart guys keep them in matched sets).

Tubman, on the issues of the truck bell housing, you note it will take take an 11" clutch. I assume it will take a smaller one and thus since as you said, 11" isn't something we would want to use, we could use the truck one with a something under 11" Again, I plead newbie here. I did spend a good chunk of time last winter swapping a 4L60e OD transmission into my '80 vette to replace the old TH350. But all the clutches are inside of that. To quote Odd Ball the tank commander in the movie Kelly's Hero's , " I just drive 'em, I don't know what makes 'em go"

Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN

[B][I][SIZE="3"]The '49 thru Mid '51 Mercury STAMPED STEEL bell and it's accompanying starter plate in FIRST picture.

.

V8Coop, thank-you for the time spent putting the images in It helps a lot.

Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked

It also depends on what you want the complete motor to "look like". If you want to use an 8BA block, but want it to look like an earlier engine, then there are a few more things that I'd do. Personally, I like the look of the 32-48 engines in a 32 Hotrod . . . and there are some important things to consider:

1) Front-mount distributor: This makes it easy to run the fan belt right against the block - just like they did in 32. This means that you can make the whole front of the engine look/function like an earlier engine. Everything fits better if you do it this way.

2) Cam/Gears: You'd need to run an earlier style cam - with the T-slot in the front. This is needed for the front-mount distributor. You'll probably be putting in a new cam anyway, so get the correct cam for the earlier engine - for a crab style distributor. Given that the cam thrust on the earlier engines was toward the block, you'll need to use the earlier cam/crank gears instead of the 49-53 gears. You probably already have a set from your prior engine.

3) Timing Cover: You'll use the earlier timing cover for the crab style distributor.

4) Water Pumps: As others noted, you can use the 37-48 water pumps if the front of the engine is being setup as a 59AB style. You'll need the modern sealed bearing versions - most of us recommend having 'Skip' rebuild the earlier pumps. You'll have better cooling and sealed bearings.

5) Intake and Fan: I prefer to run an original 32 Fan - in the original location. Depending on what intake manifold you're running, you may also be able to run a generator in the original location - with the fan mounted on the front. Original 32 fans are not cheap, but they sure do work nice in a 32.

6) Motor mounts: You can use the original front 32 motor mounts. Given where/how they mount, you don't care about the water pump mounts (you won't use them). I take the water pumps and cut the mounting "horns" off - just to clean things up.

7) Oil Pan: What I'm not sure of is if there are any issues with the 32 tie-rod and 49-53 oil pans??? You may need a rear-sump pan . . . and there may be some mods necessary for tie-rod clearance? Somebody else can chime in on this.

8) Oil Vapor Breather System: If you're going to make the engine look like a 59AB, then you need to consider the oil breather system. I'd recommend running a PCV valve as the original 49-53 breather system is quite a bit different than a 59AB and is quite unsightly in the above combination. Do some searches on the BARN about PCV systems - there are quite a few good threads. Don't make the mistake of NOT putting a PCV into the mix - or you'll not really have any pan evacuation system and this is not good.

Enough out of me . . .

B&S, this is excellent and gets to our intention of keeping it looking as much as possible like it did in the 50's.

Again, thanks all.

[Bored&Stroked]

Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN

These are the FACTORY spacers, although others imitating this "U" configuration are available. The holes in this factory spacer are OFFSET. DD

Keep in mind that if he is running an original 32 frame, there are NO mounting pads for the later water pumps . . . so there is no place to use a spacer.

The only mounting location on the original cross-member is for the stock 32 mounts (way towards the center).