The Ford Barn

Ed in Maine · 06-30-2023, 08:33 AM

When I started the restoration of my 31 Cabriolet I removed the rear axle to change the gaskets. It was leaking oil. I found that the ring gear had three broken teeth. The car worked but was only operating on 1 1/2 in. of good teeth. Also, the previous owner did a poor job of cleanup. There were chips everywhere. I cleaned everything up and installed new seals and bearings and replaced the ring gear. I did purchase a ring gear/pinion gear set.

I got lazy (and stupid), and did not change the pinion. I didn't have the tools. It is a case of "not enough time to do it right but plenty of time to due it over." What happens is that the rear axle has some interference in one spot as you turn a wheel (with both wheels jacked up).

My question is this: After rolling the rear axle out from under the car, can I remove the torque tube and pinion gear from the banjo without touching the rear spring? I want to install the pinion gear that came with the ring gear. Thank you for your comments. Ed

Will N · 06-30-2023, 09:48 AM

Yes, you can leave the rear spring attached to the axle and remove the torque tube. Remember you have to preload the two bearings on the end of the driveshaft. And also keep in mind that the gaskets on the differential housing are not just there to stop the oil leaking out- they serve as spacers to align the fit of the ring gear to the pinion gear.

GordonP · 06-30-2023, 09:59 AM

Will N is right.

The interference may be caused by not having quite enough gasket in the housing though.

I know it's a lot of work, but I'd start over if it was my car.

Big hammer · 06-30-2023, 10:11 AM

When I installed my overdrive I pulled the rear end out with the spring attached, stood the toque tube up resting it on the spring and big clamps. Removed the torque tube and then the drive shaft with the pinion gear. I set the pinion bearings on the drive shaft out the of the housing then pushed the assembly back into the housing.

T Scott · 06-30-2023, 10:28 AM

I think you have to pull the whole rear end apart. As Will N stated, proper assembly requires selecting gaskets of different thickness to achieve correct interface between the ring and pinion. Bluing is applied to the pinion gear and then rotated with the ring gear. The spread pattern of the bluing is then observed. This is a tedious procedure and well explained in Les Andrew's Model A Ford mechanics handbook. If you don't have this, send me a PM with your email address and I will forward a copy of the procedure.

WHN · 06-30-2023, 11:12 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by GordonP

Will N is right.

The interference may be caused by not having quite enough gasket in the housing though.

I know it's a lot of work, but I'd start over if it was my car.

You might not like to hear this, but I agree here.

Go back to the beginning. Checking everything. That way you might not have to do it a third time.

Enjoy.

nkaminar · 06-30-2023, 12:05 PM

This is a great set of instructions for the rear end: https://www.santaanitaas.org/wp-cont...vised-2014.pdf

Conaway2 · 06-30-2023, 12:43 PM

I agree with others who advise taking the axle apart and rebuilding it with correct pre-load and backlash. I’ve done this on two cars in the past 2 years. It’s not as much work as you might imagine.

Read the excellent article by Tom Endy of the Santa Anita A’s. You’ll find it easily on line.

Good luck - Jim

400A · 07-01-2023, 08:28 AM

I don't see any way to do this right without a full disassembly. Getting the pinion off the driveshaft can be troublesome if you don't have a proper gear puller.

JayJay · 07-02-2023, 08:46 PM

Hate to sound like piling on, but I agree with the above - start from the beginning and do it right. As Conawayand others state, it’s not that huge a job to do it right if you have the right tools, parts and patience. You will give yourself a feeling of confidence that there is one less thing to worry about.

That will mean removing the spring from the perches so the two axle housings can be individually shimmed. If you have not done so previously, use this opportunity to replace the spring shackle bushings (and the shackles, if necessary). The goal will be to have a solid, dependable rear end to serve you long into the future.

Synchro909 · 07-02-2023, 10:13 PM

IMO, as much as you don't want to do it, I also think the rear end should come apart. You only need to do the job once if if is done properly. Do it right - do it once, as they say.
You will only then have peace of mind and a sense of satisfaction every time you drive it.

06-30-2023, 08:33 AM	#1
Ed in Maine Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cty., ME or Flagler Cty., FL Posts: 1,106	Rear Axel, I have done something stupid When I started the restoration of my 31 Cabriolet I removed the rear axle to change the gaskets. It was leaking oil. I found that the ring gear had three broken teeth. The car worked but was only operating on 1 1/2 in. of good teeth. Also, the previous owner did a poor job of cleanup. There were chips everywhere. I cleaned everything up and installed new seals and bearings and replaced the ring gear. I did purchase a ring gear/pinion gear set. I got lazy (and stupid), and did not change the pinion. I didn't have the tools. It is a case of "not enough time to do it right but plenty of time to due it over." What happens is that the rear axle has some interference in one spot as you turn a wheel (with both wheels jacked up). My question is this: After rolling the rear axle out from under the car, can I remove the torque tube and pinion gear from the banjo without touching the rear spring? I want to install the pinion gear that came with the ring gear. Thank you for your comments. Ed

06-30-2023, 09:48 AM	#2
Will N Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,100	Re: Rear Axel, I have done something stupid Yes, you can leave the rear spring attached to the axle and remove the torque tube. Remember you have to preload the two bearings on the end of the driveshaft. And also keep in mind that the gaskets on the differential housing are not just there to stop the oil leaking out- they serve as spacers to align the fit of the ring gear to the pinion gear.

06-30-2023, 09:59 AM	#3
GordonP Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 18	Re: Rear Axel, I have done something stupid Will N is right. The interference may be caused by not having quite enough gasket in the housing though. I know it's a lot of work, but I'd start over if it was my car.

06-30-2023, 10:11 AM	#4
Big hammer Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Land of Lincoln Posts: 3,131	Re: Rear Axel, I have done something stupid When I installed my overdrive I pulled the rear end out with the spring attached, stood the toque tube up resting it on the spring and big clamps. Removed the torque tube and then the drive shaft with the pinion gear. I set the pinion bearings on the drive shaft out the of the housing then pushed the assembly back into the housing. __________________ Don't force it with a little hammer tap, tap, tap get a bigger hammer tap done

06-30-2023, 10:28 AM	#5
T Scott Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: East Boothbay, Maine Posts: 279	Re: Rear Axel, I have done something stupid I think you have to pull the whole rear end apart. As Will N stated, proper assembly requires selecting gaskets of different thickness to achieve correct interface between the ring and pinion. Bluing is applied to the pinion gear and then rotated with the ring gear. The spread pattern of the bluing is then observed. This is a tedious procedure and well explained in Les Andrew's Model A Ford mechanics handbook. If you don't have this, send me a PM with your email address and I will forward a copy of the procedure.

06-30-2023, 12:05 PM	#7
nkaminar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 3,901	Re: Rear Axel, I have done something stupid This is a great set of instructions for the rear end: https://www.santaanitaas.org/wp-cont...vised-2014.pdf __________________ A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.

06-30-2023, 12:43 PM	#8
Conaway2 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: Mt. Pleasant, SC Posts: 601	Re: Rear Axel, I have done something stupid I agree with others who advise taking the axle apart and rebuilding it with correct pre-load and backlash. I’ve done this on two cars in the past 2 years. It’s not as much work as you might imagine. Read the excellent article by Tom Endy of the Santa Anita A’s. You’ll find it easily on line. Good luck - Jim

07-01-2023, 08:28 AM	#9
400A Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2023 Posts: 12	Re: Rear Axel, I have done something stupid I don't see any way to do this right without a full disassembly. Getting the pinion off the driveshaft can be troublesome if you don't have a proper gear puller.

07-02-2023, 08:46 PM	#10
JayJay Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 1,077	Re: Rear Axel, I have done something stupid Hate to sound like piling on, but I agree with the above - start from the beginning and do it right. As Conawayand others state, it’s not that huge a job to do it right if you have the right tools, parts and patience. You will give yourself a feeling of confidence that there is one less thing to worry about. That will mean removing the spring from the perches so the two axle housings can be individually shimmed. If you have not done so previously, use this opportunity to replace the spring shackle bushings (and the shackles, if necessary). The goal will be to have a solid, dependable rear end to serve you long into the future. __________________ JayJay San Francisco Bay Area ------------------------ 1930 Murray Town Sedan 1931 Briggs S/W Town Sedan

07-02-2023, 10:13 PM	#11
Synchro909 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 7,496	Re: Rear Axel, I have done something stupid IMO, as much as you don't want to do it, I also think the rear end should come apart. You only need to do the job once if if is done properly. Do it right - do it once, as they say. You will only then have peace of mind and a sense of satisfaction every time you drive it. __________________ I'm part of the only ever generation with an analogue childhood and a digital adulthood.