The Ford Barn

svmsr1044 · 10-21-2022, 02:22 PM

The car:'47 Ford coupe, driven frequently, 8BA engine, good oil pressure, runs cool, usually starts quite easily. Now the problem: Every so often, perhaps every thousand miles or so, I can't start the engine because it's locked up and the starter can't turn it over. The only way I can free up the engine is to put the trans in 3rd gear and, with help, manually rock the car back and forth until the engine breaks free. At that point, it can be started as usual and I can drive it away without a problem until the next time it decides to happen again. At this point, I know it's not the starter, or a hydrolock, and it's not temperature related. This one has me stumped! Has anyone ever experienced this? Any thoughts, ideas, or theories? Thank you, Steve

Tim Ayers · 10-21-2022, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svmsr1044

The car:'47 Ford coupe, driven frequently, 8BA engine, good oil pressure, runs cool, usually starts quite easily. Now the problem: Every so often, perhaps every thousand miles or so, I can't start the engine because it's locked up and the starter can't turn it over. The only way I can free up the engine is to put the trans in 3rd gear and, with help, manually rock the car back and forth until the engine breaks free. At that point, it can be started as usual and I can drive it away without a problem until the next time it decides to happen again. At this point, I know it's not the starter, or a hydrolock, and it's not temperature related. This one has me stumped! Has anyone ever experienced this? Any thoughts, ideas, or theories? Thank you, Steve

When this happens, are you sure it's not the start Bendix bound up on the flywheel?

paul2748 · 10-21-2022, 02:36 PM

You say it's not the starter, but do you know for sure. In my limited experience, it sounds like the starter. Rocking the car back and forth frees up the starter so it will start again. had this happen to me a number of times in a flathead car.

If you can, next time it happens, pull the starter w/o rocking and see if the engine will turn over by putting a socket on the crankshaft nut.

Brian · 10-21-2022, 03:06 PM

You could have one 'bad' tooth on the ringgear that jams into the bendix gear. Engines generally stop in certain positions, sometimes yours stops just in that position of the crook tooth, and when you engage starter it'll lock up. When you rock the car and disengage this jam up, you've also moved the ringgear away from that one trouble spot.

ford38v8 · 10-21-2022, 04:01 PM

At some point you may not be able to rock it, it should break free from topside by giving it a poke with a baseball bat. Just an individual quirk and something to tell your grandkids about.

19Fordy · 10-21-2022, 04:16 PM

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Check and see if you have the little "L" bracket that supports the rear of the starter. The bracket is bolted to one of the starter bolts and to one of the oil pan bolts.
https://www.vanpeltsalesstore.com/51...ket_p_754.html

Mart · 10-21-2022, 04:21 PM

Might I suggest it's time to get out and get under that automobile.

Jack the car up and support it safely on stands. Pull the starter. Closely inspect the starter bendix, teeth, bearings, anything that might not look 100%.

Closely inspect the teeth on the ring gear. Put a mark on the last one you looked at. Turn the engine and inspect the next little bit and put another mark on the last tooth. Repeat until you see the first mark coming back around.

Hopefully after doing all that you should see something not quite right and might be in a position to fix it.

Got a spare starter? If so swap that on and see if the behaviour changes.

As the problem is intermittent, there might be an argument to suggest it is the ring gear rather than the starter. Only a close inspection of the parts involved will show what's up.

Mart.

Ggmac · 10-21-2022, 04:42 PM

Agree with 19forty , make sure you have the starter L bracket . It mounts to the back of the starter and the oil pan rail

fordv8j · 10-21-2022, 05:11 PM

mine locked up on our 38 coupe, couldn't rock it loose; had to loosen starter bolts; moved starter, came loose, happens often on a flathead

Wayne Schuenke · 10-21-2022, 09:10 PM

MY 50 Ford did the same thing its the Bendix getting jammed agents the flywheel take the starter out and clean the Bendix and check for any loose bolts then reinstall the starter

aussie merc · 10-21-2022, 11:51 PM

had similar problem turned out to be a bad earth raised its head not long after i bought it just wouldn't start [rocked the car or tapped the starter and away we went] cleaned the earth and all good ever since

10-21-2022, 02:22 PM	#1
svmsr1044 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Ivyland, PA Posts: 116	This one has me stumped! The car:'47 Ford coupe, driven frequently, 8BA engine, good oil pressure, runs cool, usually starts quite easily. Now the problem: Every so often, perhaps every thousand miles or so, I can't start the engine because it's locked up and the starter can't turn it over. The only way I can free up the engine is to put the trans in 3rd gear and, with help, manually rock the car back and forth until the engine breaks free. At that point, it can be started as usual and I can drive it away without a problem until the next time it decides to happen again. At this point, I know it's not the starter, or a hydrolock, and it's not temperature related. This one has me stumped! Has anyone ever experienced this? Any thoughts, ideas, or theories? Thank you, Steve

10-21-2022, 02:36 PM	#3
paul2748 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Midland Park, NJ Posts: 3,982	Re: This one has me stumped! You say it's not the starter, but do you know for sure. In my limited experience, it sounds like the starter. Rocking the car back and forth frees up the starter so it will start again. had this happen to me a number of times in a flathead car. If you can, next time it happens, pull the starter w/o rocking and see if the engine will turn over by putting a socket on the crankshaft nut. __________________ 48 Ford Conv 56 Tbird 54 Ford Victoria

10-21-2022, 03:06 PM	#4
Brian Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Masterton, New Zealand Posts: 3,834	Re: This one has me stumped! You could have one 'bad' tooth on the ringgear that jams into the bendix gear. Engines generally stop in certain positions, sometimes yours stops just in that position of the crook tooth, and when you engage starter it'll lock up. When you rock the car and disengage this jam up, you've also moved the ringgear away from that one trouble spot. __________________ Unfortunately, two half wits don't make a whole wit!

10-21-2022, 04:01 PM	#5
ford38v8 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 6,646	Re: This one has me stumped! At some point you may not be able to rock it, it should break free from topside by giving it a poke with a baseball bat. Just an individual quirk and something to tell your grandkids about. __________________ Alan

10-21-2022, 04:16 PM	#6
19Fordy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Coral Springs FL Posts: 10,950	Re: This one has me stumped! Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Check and see if you have the little "L" bracket that supports the rear of the starter. The bracket is bolted to one of the starter bolts and to one of the oil pan bolts. https://www.vanpeltsalesstore.com/51...ket_p_754.html

10-21-2022, 04:21 PM	#7
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,755	Re: This one has me stumped! Might I suggest it's time to get out and get under that automobile. Jack the car up and support it safely on stands. Pull the starter. Closely inspect the starter bendix, teeth, bearings, anything that might not look 100%. Closely inspect the teeth on the ring gear. Put a mark on the last one you looked at. Turn the engine and inspect the next little bit and put another mark on the last tooth. Repeat until you see the first mark coming back around. Hopefully after doing all that you should see something not quite right and might be in a position to fix it. Got a spare starter? If so swap that on and see if the behaviour changes. As the problem is intermittent, there might be an argument to suggest it is the ring gear rather than the starter. Only a close inspection of the parts involved will show what's up. Mart.

10-21-2022, 04:42 PM	#8
Ggmac Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Lake worth Florida Posts: 1,101	Re: This one has me stumped! Agree with 19forty , make sure you have the starter L bracket . It mounts to the back of the starter and the oil pan rail

10-21-2022, 05:11 PM	#9
fordv8j Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 325	Re: This one has me stumped! mine locked up on our 38 coupe, couldn't rock it loose; had to loosen starter bolts; moved starter, came loose, happens often on a flathead

10-21-2022, 09:10 PM	#10
Wayne Schuenke Member Join Date: Mar 2020 Location: Darien wi Posts: 45	Re: This one has me stumped! MY 50 Ford did the same thing its the Bendix getting jammed agents the flywheel take the starter out and clean the Bendix and check for any loose bolts then reinstall the starter

10-21-2022, 11:51 PM	#11
aussie merc Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: sydney australia Posts: 1,034	Re: This one has me stumped! had similar problem turned out to be a bad earth raised its head not long after i bought it just wouldn't start [rocked the car or tapped the starter and away we went] cleaned the earth and all good ever since