The Ford Barn

SeaSlugs · 09-13-2016, 01:53 PM

Well upon tracking down the knocking noise in my AA first drive video I have deducted it is something to do with the internals of the trans.
With dual high in neutral It makes identical sound as the video in 1st reverse and 2nd gear. 3rd gear the noise is barely audible if at all. 3rd gear just locks input shaft to output shaft bypassing the load into the cluster gear. It still spins but virtually no load on it besides moving thru the fluid.

Thinking great I've got a bad bearing but I wasn't convinced as it was way to clock-like in nature and sounded too "heavy" to be one of those little roller bearings. So I looked in the parts catalogs to see what bearings cost and see these thrust washers for what some suppliers say 28 only some say 28 early 29. Knowing AA trucks got leftover parts, mine is a March 29, and the fact I have no idea the history of this trans or how many times its been apart or if someones gone switcharoo with parts I very well could need them and would make sense if the cluster gear was hitting something. The washers were not present when I took the trans apart...

http://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/thrust-washer

^^^ washers in question^^^

So I popped the shifter tower off and used light force to see if there was end play in the cluster gear:

https://youtu.be/p32QXbOTPA4

Video isnt clear I know but you can see the cluster moving as I lightly pry it forward and back. I'm guessing that's not normal as it seems a bit excessive... Am I right? I gotta pull the trans anyways to correct whatever issue it is so then I can get a good picture to see what era of case this is and if I need the thrust washers or not. It is my understanding the cluster gear is interchangeable from 28-31 correct? Only the cases changed a few times thru the years?

* I posted over on the AA forum but I know theres some transmission gurus over here too!*

wrndln · 09-13-2016, 03:49 PM

The cluster gear IS the same for all model A passenger car tranmissions. Only the earlier transmissions [28 and into 29 used the thrust washer(s)].
Rusty Nelson

Jim Mason · 09-13-2016, 04:29 PM

The bosses inside the case were changed to no longer require the bronze thrust washers. the service bulletins have dates. I've used the steel king pin thrust washers to fine tune the fit...

Tom Wesenberg · 09-13-2016, 10:02 PM

My tranny was like NOS for every part except a couple rollers on the bearing between the input and output shafts, and the noise from those little rollers inside the tranny was unbelievable.

SeaSlugs · 09-14-2016, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

My tranny was like NOS for every part except a couple rollers on the bearing between the input and output shafts, and the noise from those little rollers inside the tranny was unbelievable.

Good to know - Rainmaker Ron and I checked all the bearings and his go/no go gauge for them showed they were like new but I may just buy all new bearings for the trans and be done with it considering the price VS getting to them. Are there any issues with the made in USA roller bearings Brattons /Snyders sells? I searched on this forum and seen some horror pictures of rollers outside of the cage and or the roller ends wearing the cage out...

I like the idea of the main shaft bearings being sealed on the one side.

FYI Tom I took your advice of using the mystic JT6 red stringy grease and packed the U joint with almost all of one can by hand before i slid everything together. Apparently I did it so much it squished into the trans thru the output shaft bearing! Its gonna be fun getting to that U joint bolt and rear bearing retainer bolts haha.

Tom Wesenberg · 09-14-2016, 08:26 AM

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When you remove the rear end take a picture or let us know how the grease looks around the U-joint. I often see worries about the grease gets slung to the side and the U-joint sets in a hollow pocket with no lube.

I don't believe this to be true, at least not with the sticky stringy Mystic JT-6 High Temp grease.

SeaSlugs · 09-14-2016, 08:37 AM

Can do! I wondered that too... My u joint is the rivited together style. When I first took it apart after it sat for 60+ years most of the trans 600W was in there lubricating everything and that U joint was coated in it - no rust or roughness. not much if any slop so i cleaned it up and put it back in upon assembly. This is the one between the trans and dual high so virtually no deflection from a straight line.

09-13-2016, 01:53 PM	#1
SeaSlugs Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Central, IL Posts: 3,968	1928-E29 Transmission thrust bearings Well upon tracking down the knocking noise in my AA first drive video I have deducted it is something to do with the internals of the trans. With dual high in neutral It makes identical sound as the video in 1st reverse and 2nd gear. 3rd gear the noise is barely audible if at all. 3rd gear just locks input shaft to output shaft bypassing the load into the cluster gear. It still spins but virtually no load on it besides moving thru the fluid. Thinking great I've got a bad bearing but I wasn't convinced as it was way to clock-like in nature and sounded too "heavy" to be one of those little roller bearings. So I looked in the parts catalogs to see what bearings cost and see these thrust washers for what some suppliers say 28 only some say 28 early 29. Knowing AA trucks got leftover parts, mine is a March 29, and the fact I have no idea the history of this trans or how many times its been apart or if someones gone switcharoo with parts I very well could need them and would make sense if the cluster gear was hitting something. The washers were not present when I took the trans apart... http://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/thrust-washer ^^^ washers in question^^^ So I popped the shifter tower off and used light force to see if there was end play in the cluster gear: https://youtu.be/p32QXbOTPA4 Video isnt clear I know but you can see the cluster moving as I lightly pry it forward and back. I'm guessing that's not normal as it seems a bit excessive... Am I right? I gotta pull the trans anyways to correct whatever issue it is so then I can get a good picture to see what era of case this is and if I need the thrust washers or not. It is my understanding the cluster gear is interchangeable from 28-31 correct? Only the cases changed a few times thru the years? * I posted over on the AA forum but I know theres some transmission gurus over here too!* __________________ 1929 Model AA - Need long splash aprons!

09-13-2016, 03:49 PM	#2
wrndln Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Lakeville, MN Posts: 5,164	Re: 1928-E29 Transmission thrust bearings The cluster gear IS the same for all model A passenger car tranmissions. Only the earlier transmissions [28 and into 29 used the thrust washer(s)]. Rusty Nelson

09-13-2016, 04:29 PM	#3
Jim Mason Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 914	Re: 1928-E29 Transmission thrust bearings The bosses inside the case were changed to no longer require the bronze thrust washers. the service bulletins have dates. I've used the steel king pin thrust washers to fine tune the fit... __________________ www.jmodela.coffeecup.com Fwiw, jm.

09-13-2016, 10:02 PM	#4
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: 1928-E29 Transmission thrust bearings My tranny was like NOS for every part except a couple rollers on the bearing between the input and output shafts, and the noise from those little rollers inside the tranny was unbelievable.

09-14-2016, 08:26 AM	#6
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: 1928-E29 Transmission thrust bearings Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) When you remove the rear end take a picture or let us know how the grease looks around the U-joint. I often see worries about the grease gets slung to the side and the U-joint sets in a hollow pocket with no lube. I don't believe this to be true, at least not with the sticky stringy Mystic JT-6 High Temp grease.

09-14-2016, 08:37 AM	#7
SeaSlugs Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Central, IL Posts: 3,968	Re: 1928-E29 Transmission thrust bearings Can do! I wondered that too... My u joint is the rivited together style. When I first took it apart after it sat for 60+ years most of the trans 600W was in there lubricating everything and that U joint was coated in it - no rust or roughness. not much if any slop so i cleaned it up and put it back in upon assembly. This is the one between the trans and dual high so virtually no deflection from a straight line. __________________ 1929 Model AA - Need long splash aprons!