The Ford Barn

Chris · 10-10-2014, 10:24 AM

Hello guys!

I bought this Lucas/Allard distributor at the Hershey swap meet a couple of days ago. I was told it had very little run time on it, but it did run good. The condenser is gone, but I think any condernsor will work.

After getting it home I discovered a crack on the inside of the cap

I do not know if it will effect the runability or not.

Does anyone have or know where to source a cap, rotor, points and condensor? I knew they were very hard to find parts for when I bought it, but figured it was worth the gamble? I have heard they run very well on flathead V8's!

Thanks! Chris

Ralph Moore · 10-10-2014, 12:07 PM

I would check with Bubba's Ignition Service, he's worked on all kinds, may know a source.

Rowdy · 10-10-2014, 12:19 PM

Is there a number on the rotor and cap? If so if I can figure out the manufacturer of each if different from Lucas and may be able to cross reference it with a NAPA number. I have a decent interchange guide. Rod

Chris · 10-10-2014, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ralph Moore

I would check with Bubba's Ignition Service, he's worked on all kinds, may know a source.

Thanks, I did that before I started this thread. He did not have a source for them. Thanks though!

Chris · 10-10-2014, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rowdy

Is there a number on the rotor and cap? If so if I can figure out the manufacturer of each if different from Lucas and may be able to cross reference it with a NAPA number. I have a decent interchange guide. Rod

Thanks Rod, but I am pretty positive NAPA will not have these. I have been told you have to find good originals or NOS caps.

grumpys hot rods · 10-10-2014, 03:01 PM

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To Alleviate your problem finding parts, You could that old dist. to me. Awesome distributor!

Mart · 10-10-2014, 03:23 PM

Parts for these come up on UK ebay from time to time. They have a weak point, the rotor arm. Somehow, if the HT load is too high, the rotor arm will "leak" the spark to the shaft, starting from that rivet.

If you use solid core wires, non resistor caps, and keep the plug gaps at .025, it should be ok.

The distributor was designed for industrial applications, rather than as a performance unit, there was a discussion on these units previously on this forum.

Lucas made magneto's which, I believe used the same points, and maybe condensor, but I do know the cap was different. The magneto cap has screw in terminals for the HT leads.

There's a NOS unit on UK ebay, under this item number: 301345892959. If I see some points, condensor or cap, I'll yell.

Here's a thread from here:
http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22059

Here's another, but be careful a true "Pilot" distributor is not what you have, but what Ted has in this post. In other words, if a Pilot cap cam up, it might not be the right one for you. Pilots have an 8 lobe cam and points with a narrow heel.
http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=85031

It's got to be worth trying to see how it runs as is, with a condensor fitted externally. The points should be good with a clean, the rotor should be ok, subject to my comments above, and the cap may be ok as is.

Mart.

bart78 · 10-10-2014, 03:56 PM

Pertronix makes a conversion for them. I've never seen any parts for them

HotRodmicky · 10-11-2014, 03:37 AM

I ran one of these with a fixed cracked cap , different external condesor and a bosch blue
Coil foe years without problems
I had to change the springs of the advance mechanism, they where too heavy.
I used some out of a ball pen :-)

Jack E/NJ · 10-11-2014, 10:32 AM

HRM>>>I ran one of these with a fixed cracked cap , different external condesor and a bosch blue Coil foe years without problems I had to change the springs of the advance mechanism, they where too heavy. I used some out of a ball pen :-) >>>

Yep, these are the type of things you do to get rare or even not-so-rare stuff to work. As for your crack, I think I see it inside your cap. Similar to those I've had inside and outside caps of old antique tractor and M/C magnetos that were arcing all over the place. The fix was simply painting or pouring old-fashioned varnish into the cap and letting it cure for a few days. Lasts for about a year or so before the varnish starts letting loose --- then you just re-varnish the thing for another year. And if you're really cheap like me, it's much more satisfying than shelling out big bucks for rare NOS caps and rotors. 8^)

Jack E/NJ

Kurt in NJ · 10-11-2014, 11:04 AM

The parts in yuor picture look to be low mileage, there is a good chance any modern production parts are lower quality, the carbon button in the cap looks near new, the rubbing block on the points is probably just broken in, don't use a file on the contacts, oil stone, or my favorite is a diamond knife sharpener ---i have been reconditioning points on most of the jobs I do because the replacement ones are much lower quality ---if you replace any of the parts keep the old ones for when you have problems with the newe parts you put in

Jack E/NJ · 10-11-2014, 11:56 AM

>>>i have been reconditioning points on most of the jobs I do because the replacement ones are much lower quality >>>

Good 'point', Kurt. But I'll bet you did the same thing in the old days like me even tho' high-quality replacements were available back then. 8^)

Jack E/NJ

Mart · 10-11-2014, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bart78

Pertronix makes a conversion for them. I've never seen any parts for them

I'm not "calling you" on this, but are you sure? I do remember one forum member did get pertronics to make some units for a lucas distributor, but I seem to remember it was for a Pilot unit, not the commercial unit, and were only for that person and not for general sale.

I could have imagined or dreamt the above, if you are sure pertronics do make parts, do you know part numbers or have links to a site that shows the parts?

Mart.

FlatheadTed · 10-12-2014, 01:59 AM

points for sale .http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/car-...-790508296.htm

Mart · 10-12-2014, 03:35 AM

Those are the wrong points for the commercial distributor. The comm ones have a broad heel, and work with a 4 lobe cam. The ones shown have a conventional narrow heel and work in the Pilot distributor with the 8 lobe cam.

Mart.

fryguy · 11-27-2014, 12:35 PM

I ended up picking this up off of Chris this week. Can't wait for it to get here. I have a great ignition guy real close to me, Mason Ignition. He builds all kind of ignition systems from brass era to modern race cars. He is a genius, an he's a flathead guy to boot. I have a Scintila mag that he built for me for my 8ba. The motor crapped out so I am wanting to try an run this on my 21 stud. I am going to see if he can combine the two, use the mag top on the lucas plate. If not, I am going to have him go over this Lucas and see if its good to run as is.
I'll update as I get more info.

Fryguy

scooder · 11-27-2014, 02:36 PM

I'll back up my buddy here. Really don't think petronics would build a setup for this ignition. It'd prolly need two four cylinder bits or an eight cylinder thingy (the bit that goes on the distributor cam) custom fitted to go on a four lobe cam. I'd be bloody surprised if they did.
And if they did, it would still have that rotor with that damn stupid rivet. That as Mart stated is the week spot. It does exactly as Mart said, shorts to the distributor cam. For a while Lucas did make the rotors without a metal rivet, the brass part was the same, just had fitted and moulded right in, the plastic came up through the now empty rivet hole and secured it together.
I had one for this ignition, sold it to a guy who wanted it far more than me years ago. And have them for my Cortina and the other halfs Morris 1000, different type of Lucas ignition, but were still lumbered with that rivet for a time, these rotors do turn up from time to time (no metal rivet, just plastic) and last forever.
Martin.
ps heed Mart's advice re plug gaps, solid copper leads and no resistance, this will extend the life of that rotor. Once it shorts from the rivet to cam, it's a goner, with no real fix.

Mart · 11-27-2014, 02:43 PM

A nos cap sold on uk ebay recently for the equivalent of about $50.

Mart.

Cartravel · 11-28-2014, 05:47 PM

Nordian Services is the flathead parts dealer in the UK. They will probably have parts. I have an 8 lobe Pilot type with Pertronix in my Allard. I couldn't believe they made a kit for it and none for pre-49 Fords.
Larry

scooder · 11-28-2014, 06:31 PM

Nordian services is no more. Gone. Shame.
Best place for these parts in UK is a very good friend of mine, Bob Froch (Nervous) he's got a bunch of stuff from when Nordian Services stock was split up after Wally sold it. Wally was Nordian Services, started it when Pontius Pilate was an air cadett.
He's got a web page for contact details.
Good luck on your quest,
Martin.

10-10-2014, 10:24 AM	#1
Chris Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 2,976	Need help finding tune up parts for a Lucas distributor Hello guys! I bought this Lucas/Allard distributor at the Hershey swap meet a couple of days ago. I was told it had very little run time on it, but it did run good. The condenser is gone, but I think any condernsor will work. After getting it home I discovered a crack on the inside of the cap I do not know if it will effect the runability or not. Does anyone have or know where to source a cap, rotor, points and condensor? I knew they were very hard to find parts for when I bought it, but figured it was worth the gamble? I have heard they run very well on flathead V8's! Thanks! Chris __________________ Thee Inland Emperors

10-10-2014, 12:07 PM	#2
Ralph Moore Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: North Pole, Alaska Posts: 1,470	Re: Need help finding tune up parts for a Lucas distributor I would check with Bubba's Ignition Service, he's worked on all kinds, may know a source.

10-10-2014, 12:19 PM	#3
Rowdy BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Gothenburg Nebraska Just off I-80 Posts: 4,893	Re: Need help finding tune up parts for a Lucas distributor Is there a number on the rotor and cap? If so if I can figure out the manufacturer of each if different from Lucas and may be able to cross reference it with a NAPA number. I have a decent interchange guide. Rod __________________ Do the RIGHT thing - Support the H.A.M.B. Alliance!!!!

10-10-2014, 03:01 PM	#6
grumpys hot rods Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 91	Re: Need help finding tune up parts for a Lucas distributor Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) To Alleviate your problem finding parts, You could that old dist. to me. Awesome distributor!

10-10-2014, 03:23 PM	#7
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,744	Re: Need help finding tune up parts for a Lucas distributor Parts for these come up on UK ebay from time to time. They have a weak point, the rotor arm. Somehow, if the HT load is too high, the rotor arm will "leak" the spark to the shaft, starting from that rivet. If you use solid core wires, non resistor caps, and keep the plug gaps at .025, it should be ok. The distributor was designed for industrial applications, rather than as a performance unit, there was a discussion on these units previously on this forum. Lucas made magneto's which, I believe used the same points, and maybe condensor, but I do know the cap was different. The magneto cap has screw in terminals for the HT leads. There's a NOS unit on UK ebay, under this item number: 301345892959. If I see some points, condensor or cap, I'll yell. Here's a thread from here: http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22059 Here's another, but be careful a true "Pilot" distributor is not what you have, but what Ted has in this post. In other words, if a Pilot cap cam up, it might not be the right one for you. Pilots have an 8 lobe cam and points with a narrow heel. http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=85031 It's got to be worth trying to see how it runs as is, with a condensor fitted externally. The points should be good with a clean, the rotor should be ok, subject to my comments above, and the cap may be ok as is. Mart.

10-10-2014, 03:56 PM	#8
bart78 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Stephenville tx Posts: 1,019	Re: Need help finding tune up parts for a Lucas distributor Pertronix makes a conversion for them. I've never seen any parts for them

10-11-2014, 03:37 AM	#9
HotRodmicky Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Germany Posts: 249	Re: Need help finding tune up parts for a Lucas distributor I ran one of these with a fixed cracked cap , different external condesor and a bosch blue Coil foe years without problems I had to change the springs of the advance mechanism, they where too heavy. I used some out of a ball pen :-)

10-11-2014, 10:32 AM	#10
Jack E/NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,173	Re: Need help finding tune up parts for a Lucas distributor HRM>>>I ran one of these with a fixed cracked cap , different external condesor and a bosch blue Coil foe years without problems I had to change the springs of the advance mechanism, they where too heavy. I used some out of a ball pen :-) >>> Yep, these are the type of things you do to get rare or even not-so-rare stuff to work. As for your crack, I think I see it inside your cap. Similar to those I've had inside and outside caps of old antique tractor and M/C magnetos that were arcing all over the place. The fix was simply painting or pouring old-fashioned varnish into the cap and letting it cure for a few days. Lasts for about a year or so before the varnish starts letting loose --- then you just re-varnish the thing for another year. And if you're really cheap like me, it's much more satisfying than shelling out big bucks for rare NOS caps and rotors. 8^) Jack E/NJ

10-11-2014, 11:04 AM	#11
Kurt in NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: on the Littlefield Posts: 6,156	Re: Need help finding tune up parts for a Lucas distributor The parts in yuor picture look to be low mileage, there is a good chance any modern production parts are lower quality, the carbon button in the cap looks near new, the rubbing block on the points is probably just broken in, don't use a file on the contacts, oil stone, or my favorite is a diamond knife sharpener ---i have been reconditioning points on most of the jobs I do because the replacement ones are much lower quality ---if you replace any of the parts keep the old ones for when you have problems with the newe parts you put in

10-11-2014, 11:56 AM	#12
Jack E/NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,173	Re: Need help finding tune up parts for a Lucas distributor >>>i have been reconditioning points on most of the jobs I do because the replacement ones are much lower quality >>> Good 'point', Kurt. But I'll bet you did the same thing in the old days like me even tho' high-quality replacements were available back then. 8^) Jack E/NJ

10-12-2014, 01:59 AM	#14
FlatheadTed Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Auckland Posts: 4,700	Re: Need help finding tune up parts for a Lucas distributor points for sale .http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/car-...-790508296.htm __________________ http://www.flatheadted.com Flathead Ted brake Floaters ,

10-12-2014, 03:35 AM	#15
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,744	Re: Need help finding tune up parts for a Lucas distributor Those are the wrong points for the commercial distributor. The comm ones have a broad heel, and work with a 4 lobe cam. The ones shown have a conventional narrow heel and work in the Pilot distributor with the 8 lobe cam. Mart.

11-27-2014, 12:35 PM	#16
fryguy Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Coventry, Pa Posts: 52	Re: Need help finding tune up parts for a Lucas distributor I ended up picking this up off of Chris this week. Can't wait for it to get here. I have a great ignition guy real close to me, Mason Ignition. He builds all kind of ignition systems from brass era to modern race cars. He is a genius, an he's a flathead guy to boot. I have a Scintila mag that he built for me for my 8ba. The motor crapped out so I am wanting to try an run this on my 21 stud. I am going to see if he can combine the two, use the mag top on the lucas plate. If not, I am going to have him go over this Lucas and see if its good to run as is. I'll update as I get more info. Fryguy

11-27-2014, 02:36 PM	#17
scooder Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,593	Re: Need help finding tune up parts for a Lucas distributor I'll back up my buddy here. Really don't think petronics would build a setup for this ignition. It'd prolly need two four cylinder bits or an eight cylinder thingy (the bit that goes on the distributor cam) custom fitted to go on a four lobe cam. I'd be bloody surprised if they did. And if they did, it would still have that rotor with that damn stupid rivet. That as Mart stated is the week spot. It does exactly as Mart said, shorts to the distributor cam. For a while Lucas did make the rotors without a metal rivet, the brass part was the same, just had fitted and moulded right in, the plastic came up through the now empty rivet hole and secured it together. I had one for this ignition, sold it to a guy who wanted it far more than me years ago. And have them for my Cortina and the other halfs Morris 1000, different type of Lucas ignition, but were still lumbered with that rivet for a time, these rotors do turn up from time to time (no metal rivet, just plastic) and last forever. Martin. ps heed Mart's advice re plug gaps, solid copper leads and no resistance, this will extend the life of that rotor. Once it shorts from the rivet to cam, it's a goner, with no real fix.

11-27-2014, 02:43 PM	#18
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,744	Re: Need help finding tune up parts for a Lucas distributor A nos cap sold on uk ebay recently for the equivalent of about $50. Mart.

11-28-2014, 05:47 PM	#19
Cartravel Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Larry Young, Tulsa, OK Posts: 202	Re: Need help finding tune up parts for a Lucas distributor Nordian Services is the flathead parts dealer in the UK. They will probably have parts. I have an 8 lobe Pilot type with Pertronix in my Allard. I couldn't believe they made a kit for it and none for pre-49 Fords. Larry

11-28-2014, 06:31 PM	#20
scooder Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,593	Re: Need help finding tune up parts for a Lucas distributor Nordian services is no more. Gone. Shame. Best place for these parts in UK is a very good friend of mine, Bob Froch (Nervous) he's got a bunch of stuff from when Nordian Services stock was split up after Wally sold it. Wally was Nordian Services, started it when Pontius Pilate was an air cadett. He's got a web page for contact details. Good luck on your quest, Martin.