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Old 03-29-2019, 02:54 PM   #1
BouncinBetty
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Question 1942 Marmon Herrington Tires

I wanted to try road pattern tires on the front of the truck as she shimmies at speed but can only get 700x20 here in the UK.

I wanted to keep the 750x 20 on the rear for now, does anybody know if this would upset the transmission being full time 4 x 4 ?
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Old 03-29-2019, 04:45 PM   #2
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Default Re: 1942 Marmon Herrington Tires

any four wheel drive needs to have all the tires the same size. lock out hubs for the front should be available for your truck, it might make it drive a little nicer to get the front free wheeling
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Old 03-29-2019, 04:50 PM   #3
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Default Re: 1942 Marmon Herrington Tires

Does your transfer case click when turning a corner? If so it has the compensating clutch. That would allow some difference in tire size. Not ideal by any means.

It would be a huge undertaking to mount locking hubs on a M-H hub. They are semi floating like the 70s Dodges and all newer pickups.
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Old 03-29-2019, 04:57 PM   #4
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Default Re: 1942 Marmon Herrington Tires

Get in touch with Chuck at Chuck's Trucks. He knows MH's.
https://www.chuckstrucksllc.com/
(203) 288-2769
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Old 03-30-2019, 04:31 AM   #5
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Default Re: 1942 Marmon Herrington Tires

Thanks Boys.
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Old 03-30-2019, 12:00 PM   #6
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Default Re: 1942 Marmon Herrington Tires

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MH made their own axles and they had unique and innovative designs for the day. Locking hubs didn't come along for a while yet though. A fellow that goes by the handle Truckdog may have more insight on wheels & tires for the older trucks. maybe he will see this and respond.

That compensator can get kind of loud in the tight turns. I certainly wouldn't want it clattering all the time. This truck used 750s all the way around
http://www.fourwheeler.com/features/...e-4x4-wrecker/

If all that is available in 700 then you may have to replace them all. All I can say would be to try it but I wouldn't guarantee the outcome.
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Old 03-30-2019, 03:07 PM   #7
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Default Re: 1942 Marmon Herrington Tires

I worked on Phone company 1978-1980 Marmnon Herrington Ford F-650s and F-800s. We could not keep rear transfer case bearings to survive. They might last a year up in the mountains. I had one driver that knew his truck so well he would let that bearing get noisy until right before it exploded and took out the bearing cover. He would call me up and say its about to explode. I ignored him one night and the next day it exploded and shattered the cast iron cover over the bearing. I had to remove the transfer case and take all the metal out of it. After that I learned that I better go change it out when he called. You could do it right on the ground in about 10-minutes. They were easy to change from the outside of the transfer case. As big as a pain that truck was that driver loved it so much that when he retired and moved from CA to Montana he tried to buy the truck. He drove it for twenty-year's. I think he wanted to restore it.

We also could not keep those conversions from shearing off the transfer case mounting bolts, 1"-big bolts. They also broke the heavy duty, welded 1/2" steel plate, rear motor mounts that bolted to the bell housing. I always had a fear of it breaking all the mounts to the transfer case and then it falling out of the truck, hanging by its three driveshafts. They did not bolt to the back of the trans, they were suspended from the frame by a thick steel plate

The parts were extremely expensive and real hard to get through Ford. You just about had to supply Ford with the part number. We had about six of those trucks. Once you got the right number you had better hang onto it for the next time. The front wheel studs were unique to Marmon Herringtons. They sheared them all the time. They were over $100.00 a stud. The front drums were special too, at least over $500.00 each in 1980s dollars. They would break leaf springs and U-bolts unless you tighten them on every 3-month service.

Driving them back up the mountain to Lake Arrowhead would just about drive you insane from the rattling shifter handles. The guys would put about twenty large rubber bands around the whole group of handles to try and stop the rattling.

Then the phone company started buying F-350 and F-450 stock 4x4 chassis s with the aerial booms mounted on them. When those got stuck off road the drivers with the Marmon Herringtons pulled the out. They are awesome 4x4s but I had to be real vigilant to check those transmission and transfer mounts every service. If it dropped a transfer case coming down that mountain at 50 mph there would have been no way the brakes would have been able to stop it.

About the only thing that did not break was the front differentials and axles, they were bullet proof.

The tires do need to be same diameter or you will bind everything up. Just driving them on pavement, in 4x4. where the tires cannot slip makes it hard to get the transfer case out of 4x4. You can pull with both hands as hard as you can and not be able to get it to come out of 4x4. You have to take it back off in the dirt and do a couple of circles in both directions and them you can shift the transfer case. Most of the 4x4s were that way because there were no synchro like modern 4x4s have inside the front differential.

Most of the smaller 4x4s I worked on, Suburbans, Ramchargers, F-350s.... would have just a slight difference in the gear ratios from front to back. A vehicle might have 4.11s in the back and 4.10s in the front. Just a slightest difference but they were never exactly the same. I'm not exactly sure why? Do they want one pushing and one pulling just slightly different?
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Old 03-30-2019, 04:20 PM   #8
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Default Re: 1942 Marmon Herrington Tires

Rj
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flathead Fever View Post
I worked on Phone company 1978-1980 Marmnon Herrington Ford F-650s and F-800s. We could not keep rear transfer case bearings to survive. They might last a year up in the mountains. I had one driver that knew his truck so well he would let that bearing get noisy until right before it exploded and took out the bearing cover. He would call me up and say its about to explode. I ignored him one night and the next day it exploded and shattered the cast iron cover over the bearing. I had to remove the transfer case and take all the metal out of it. After that I learned that I better go change it out when he called. You could do it right on the ground in about 10-minutes. They were easy to change from the outside of the transfer case. As big as a pain that truck was that driver loved it so much that when he retired and moved from CA to Montana he tried to buy the truck. He drove it for twenty-year's. I think he wanted to restore it.

We also could not keep those conversions from shearing off the transfer case mounting bolts, 1"-big bolts. They also broke the heavy duty, welded 1/2" steel plate, rear motor mounts that bolted to the bell housing. I always had a fear of it breaking all the mounts to the transfer case and then it falling out of the truck, hanging by its three driveshafts. They did not bolt to the back of the trans, they were suspended from the frame by a thick steel plate

The parts were extremely expensive and real hard to get through Ford. You just about had to supply Ford with the part number. We had about six of those trucks. Once you got the right number you had better hang onto it for the next time. The front wheel studs were unique to Marmon Herringtons. They sheared them all the time. They were over $100.00 a stud. The front drums were special too, at least over $500.00 each in 1980s dollars. They would break leaf springs and U-bolts unless you tighten them on every 3-month service.

Driving them back up the mountain to Lake Arrowhead would just about drive you insane from the rattling shifter handles. The guys would put about twenty large rubber bands around the whole group of handles to try and stop the rattling.

Then the phone company started buying F-350 and F-450 stock 4x4 chassis s with the aerial booms mounted on them. When those got stuck off road the drivers with the Marmon Herringtons pulled the out. They are awesome 4x4s but I had to be real vigilant to check those transmission and transfer mounts every service. If it dropped a transfer case coming down that mountain at 50 mph there would have been no way the brakes would have been able to stop it.

About the only thing that did not break was the front differentials and axles, they were bullet proof.

The tires do need to be same diameter or you will bind everything up. Just driving them on pavement, in 4x4. where the tires cannot slip makes it hard to get the transfer case out of 4x4. You can pull with both hands as hard as you can and not be able to get it to come out of 4x4. You have to take it back off in the dirt and do a couple of circles in both directions and them you can shift the transfer case. Most of the 4x4s were that way because there were no synchro like modern 4x4s have inside the front differential.

Most of the smaller 4x4s I worked on, Suburbans, Ramchargers, F-350s.... would have just a slight difference in the gear ratios from front to back. A vehicle might have 4.11s in the back and 4.10s in the front. Just a slightest difference but they were never exactly the same. I'm not exactly sure why? Do they want one pushing and one pulling just slightly different?
The earlier transfer cases were whole different animals. Not to mention the early M-Hs were not true full time 4wd. Some cases had a spring loaded compensating clutch for turning corners. The clutch overrides itself whilst backing up. The dash tag read compensating or positive. No 4wd whilst backing up in compensating. You put it in positive to look it solid.
My 52 does not have the clutch. It is either out (front axle free wheels) or it is locked positive. Just like most pre computer 4wds. Chuck told me some folks get rid of the clutch to be free of the clicking noise.

Again same size tires would be best.
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Last edited by 1952henry; 03-30-2019 at 06:35 PM.
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Old 03-30-2019, 06:44 PM   #9
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Default Re: 1942 Marmon Herrington Tires

By the 1970s MH was using more off the shelf stuff than they ever did back when they were pioneering big and small 4WD trucks prior to the war. They even made 4WD cars if you wanted them. They used the Banjo axles converted with their constant velocity joints on the front. They were a pretty trick set up back in 1935.

The transfer case on those old Sno-Go trucks was a big old bugger.
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Old 03-30-2019, 09:31 PM   #10
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Default Re: 1942 Marmon Herrington Tires

i think all the makers now have a different ratio between front and rear axles, like the 4.11, and 4.10 as mentioned. i am no engineer, but i suspect its to take up all the slop in the gear lash similar to toe in on the front end. a wild friend years ago made a tow truck out of a 47 chevy 1.5 ton, shortened up for a holms 440 wrecker boom, and he used 70's vintage gm 3/4 ton transfer case and front axle. so, 750x20 rear tires, and 750x16 front tires. he is a sharp guy and did the math for different ratios to make it work, it was/is a cool rig now owned by his son
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Old 03-31-2019, 09:47 AM   #11
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Default Re: 1942 Marmon Herrington Tires

Very limited gear selection for those axles. You probably have 6:67 gears. I wouldn’t try different size tires unless you take the front drive shaft out. You could do this just to test if the road tires make a difference. Then buy a full set.
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Old 03-31-2019, 12:37 PM   #12
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Default Re: 1942 Marmon Herrington Tires

Quote:
Originally Posted by cas3 View Post
i think all the makers now have a different ratio between front and rear axles, like the 4.11, and 4.10 as mentioned. i am no engineer, but i suspect its to take up all the slop in the gear lash similar to toe in on the front end. a wild friend years ago made a tow truck out of a 47 chevy 1.5 ton, shortened up for a holms 440 wrecker boom, and he used 70's vintage gm 3/4 ton transfer case and front axle. so, 750x20 rear tires, and 750x16 front tires. he is a sharp guy and did the math for different ratios to make it work, it was/is a cool rig now owned by his son
The tire sizes would have been calculated in too. This is likely why he chose slightly different axle ratios. Either that or there was no way to make them the same. You don't want the front pulling faster than the back or visa vi. This creates too much friction for tires and drive train which is really bad for the already bad mileage plus causing premature wear & tear.

Chucks Trucks has some different ratio gears or so I've heard. He is about the only one I know of that plays with the early Timken Detroit axles.
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Old 03-31-2019, 12:46 PM   #13
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Default Re: 1942 Marmon Herrington Tires

double post
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Old 03-31-2019, 08:25 PM   #14
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Default Re: 1942 Marmon Herrington Tires

Only 2 other options for the axles he probably has. 5:83 and 5:14. The smaller half ton axles have some other options.
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