VanPelt 47 Tranny Rebuild

[Old Henry]

Just wanted to share with everyone the great experience I've had so far with Mac VanPelt rebuilding my transmission that was long overdue for such.

Right from the start it has been first class service. He built a crate specially made for my transmission and sent it to me with instructions on how to install my tranny in the crate for return to him. UPS delivered and picked up.

He then started dismantling by tranny and photographed each step of the way and emailed the pictures to me with descriptions of what I was looking at.

This right here was my biggest problem - the first gear on the cluster gear worn so far he said "It's truly a wonder that one of the teeth did not part ways with the gear casting, as there is so little left of it." That damage began grinding through a giant half frozen mud puddle on Potash Road near Moab 4 years ago at maximum RPM in low gear. (Here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWEHZQpuiwI).




Here are Mac's thoughts about replacing the cluster gear: "Here is my thought on the cluster gear. You presently have a stock 28-24-18-14 tooth cluster gear, which most definitely needs replacement. This type uses the caged roller bearings inside. Ford came out with a comparable gear (same tooth count) for the 1949-50 Ford transmissions, which had a smaller bore and used the loose needle bearings. I like this gear for its more precise control of the cluster gear, especially under load. I have one NORS Borg Warner gear in stock of this type, and I would much prefer to use this in your transmission over the type originally used. This gives us a completely interchangeable gear (provided we use the appropriate tube and needles) for a more reliable cluster gear that handles the power better." I, of course, went along with his recommendation. Here's the NORS gear he put in with new needle bearings:







He also replaced the first gear that was quite worn.



Shifter shafts were fairly worn:



So, he replaced those with NOS shafts:







And cleaned up or replaced other shifting parts to look and work like new:







Cleaned or replaced all of the other moving parts and put it all back together with all spaces strictly according to specs:



And finished off with a new paint job:





Even reinstalled the stock safety wires:



I'm excited to get it back, hopefully this week, and get "On the Road Again".

[1937pickup]

Looks like great work and keeping you in the "loop." It makes me want to pull my transmission and have Mac redo it before he runs out of those NOS parts. His knowledge is second to none with these old Ford transmissions.

[Lawrie]

Once again,how lucky are we to suppliers like this to help keep our old rockets alive.
Lawrie

[corvette8n]

Wow, that's a very good blow by blow account of a rebuild, he does nice work.

[edhd58]

Originally Posted by Lawrie

Once again,how lucky are we to suppliers like this to help keep our old rockets alive.
Lawrie

The question is, how much longer will all this knowledge be here to help all us less knowledgeable. We should all appreciate these guys and women very much.

[oldford2]

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Well, Mac is a great support to all Ford guys trying to keep the hobby alive. BUT, don't forget... "behind every successful man, there is a strong woman". Give thanks that we have Shelly to keep Mac on the straight and narrow. Take a bow Shelly
John

[GB SISSON]

Originally Posted by oldford2

Well, Mac is a great support to all Ford guys trying to keep the hobby alive. BUT, don't forget... "behind every successful man, there is a strong woman". Give thanks that we have Shelly to keep Mac on the straight and narrow. Take a bow Shelly
John

That is some very amazing work. Can you imagine if even half of the people who repair things did work half that good and communicated half as well? That's quite something that that old 3 speed went to Alaska and back in that condition. It's even more amazing that Ol' Henry just did it like the rest of us were going to the grocery store.

[Drbrown]

Many thanks for giving us a walk-through of the process and what problems may be discovered along the way.

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by GB SISSON

That is some very amazing work. Can you imagine if even half of the people who repair things did work half that good and communicated half as well?

The pictures I shared were just a few of 48 that he sent me of everything he did.

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by GB SISSON

That's quite something that that old 3 speed went to Alaska and back in that condition. It's even more amazing that Ol' Henry just did it like the rest of us were going to the grocery store.

Not long after I restored the car my foot slipped off the clutch in the driveway and shattered the first/reverse slider gear. But, had to drive over the mountain on a scenic drive so went anyway without any first or reverse gear. It was a little tricky starting up the steep climb in second after stopping for pictures. First and reverse gears are highly overrated. Much can be done without having any at all.

[1927Tudor]

Looks to be a well done, well finished job, with great documentation. Did you feel that the cost was reasonable?

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by Old Henry

Not long after I restored the car my foot slipped off the clutch in the driveway and shattered the first/reverse slider gear. But, had to drive over the mountain on a scenic drive so went anyway without any first or reverse gear. It was a little tricky starting up the steep climb in second after stopping for pictures. First and reverse gears are highly overrated. Much can be done without having any at all.

That might explain some of the clutch plate ware.

[A bones]

Originally Posted by oldford2

Well, Mac is a great support to all Ford guys trying to keep the hobby alive.

BUT, don't forget... "behind every successful man, there is a strong woman". Give thanks that we have Shelly to keep Mac on the straight and narrow. Take a bow Shelly
John

Lest we forget, without Shelly, most of us would not be here.

And thank you Ryan, for revvin' up The Barn

Of course....Thanks for sharing Old Henry's innards with us!

[Tim Ayers]

Talk about customer service! Thanks for posting and thanks to MacVP for all that he does as well.

[Mike Mayer]

Mac gave the transmission in my 53 a complete going over . I really don't know how it was when it was new , but my gut feeling is it is better now than it has ever been.
Mac is a wizard . I highly recommend him.

[oldford2]

Originally Posted by A bones

Lest we forget, without Shelly, most of us would not be here.

And thank you Ryan, for revvin' up The Barn

Of course....Thanks for sharing Old Henry's innards with us!

For some that may not know it, Shelly was the original designer and owner of Ford Barn and ran it until Ryan took over.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by A bones

Lest we forget, without Shelly, most of us would not be here.

And thank you Ryan, for revvin' up The Barn

Of course....Thanks for sharing Old Henry's innards with us!

Word. Shelly & MacVP are the ultimate old Ford power couple.

[19Fordy]

Looks like a great job.
We are grateful to have Mac in the "Barn.

[Jeff/Illinois]

I only see one problem in this rebuild. Now, it's too nice to put back in the car it would look great displayed on a shelf in a retro 1930's-40's Ford Parts Dept.

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by 1927Tudor

Looks to be a well done, well finished job, with great documentation. Did you feel that the cost was reasonable?

The jury is still out on that one. So far, all I know is the cost of building the crate, shipping it to me and back, and the cost of the cluster gear. Nothing else.

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by Jeff/Illinois

I only see one problem in this rebuild. Now, it's too nice to put back in the car it would look great displayed on a shelf in a retro 1930's-40's Ford Parts Dept.

I thought the same thing.

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by 1927Tudor

Looks to be a well done, well finished job, with great documentation. Did you feel that the cost was reasonable?

Originally Posted by Old Henry

The jury is still out on that one. So far, all I know is the cost of building the crate, shipping it to me and back, and the cost of the cluster gear. Nothing else.

Here's the total bill for my transmission rebuild including shipping:



Transmission was sent March 21st and received back May 4th. Mac had warned me he was backed up and there would be a delay getting to mine.

I sent my transmission with two problems to fix: First gear shot, and popping out of second when holding back on a descent. First gear is now nice and smooth and quiet (required replacement of the cluster gear and the first gear). Unfortunately, second gear still pops out. Really annoying. In one email there was discussion about replacing the second gear. That wasn't done. May have solved the problem. Syncros all work well so that's nice, but they were working fine before.

As for the reasonableness of his charges, that can only be determined by knowing what all of his competitors charge for the same speed and quality of work. As I have no information about that I can not say. I feel fine about his charges. I just wish the second gear popping out would have gone away.

I did get a nice result from my new clutch from Ft. Wayne clutch - my nagging clutch chatter is gone - at least for now. Hope it stays away.

[19Fordy]

That is a very fair price.
I doubt if there are still many people who really know
how to diagnose and can actually repair these old transmissions-
not just change parts and hope for the best.

[PeteVS]

Did you get a picture of the crate?? (I'm kinda like the kid who gets a toy and would rather play with the box it came in.)

[A bones]

Thrilled that you lost the chatter. I was one, certain to blame the fly wheel.

[Quote] Out of 5,794 views of my thread on the clutch disc problems* not one single person said, "That's the wrong disc" which it turned out to be.

Holding second is a drudge.

[Frank Miller]

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Considering all was inspected and rebuilt I would make sure the shifter linkage is adjusted correctly.

[pooch]

Worn engine mounts?

[rotorwrench]

Your cost in that overhaul is well above board the way I see it. Labor rate is right along the norms for this day and age and times reflect someone who knows what they are doing and how long it takes to do it. The only way you could have done better would be to buy the parts and do all the work yourself.

That second gear relies on the condition of that phosphor bronze bushing in there. If it gets loose or deteriorated it will be problematic. Another reason for folks to stick with mild or no EP in their transmission lubricant.

[Krylon32]

Popping out of second gear would be annoying especially after spending that much on a rebuild. Did you contact VanPelt about the problem? I have a friend who used them for a 39 trans in a 32 , he was experiencing the same problem but it went away after the rebuild.

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

That second gear relies on the condition of that phosphor bronze bushing in there. If it gets loose or deteriorated it will be problematic. Another reason for folks to stick with mild or no EP in their transmission lubricant.

I'm hoping Mack knew about that phosphor bronze bushing and replaced that as the possible cause of my problem. I sure don't know anything about it and didn't want to. That's why I sent it to him.

What is EP that you say to avoid in transmission oil? What oils have it to avoid and which ones don't that should be used?

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by Krylon32

Popping out of second gear would be annoying especially after spending that much on a rebuild. Did you contact VanPelt about the problem? I have a friend who used them for a 39 trans in a 32 , he was experiencing the same problem but it went away after the rebuild.

Just sent a note to Mac to see what his thoughts are. We'll see. Hopefully he'll post them here so we'll all know.

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

Your cost in that overhaul is well above board the way I see it. Labor rate is right along the norms for this day and age and times reflect someone who knows what they are doing and how long it takes to do it. The only way you could have done better would be to buy the parts and do all the work yourself.

I never asked Mac anything about cost. That was the least of my worries. All I wanted was a transmission that would work like it was designed that I could count on to take me wherever I wanted to go without any trouble. I just told him to do the best he could with the best parts he could get. Never discussed cost. It didn't matter to me as long as it got fixed. I learned long ago "You quickly forget the money you saved and long remember the junk you bought." I sent my transmission to the best that I knew with full confidence it would come back the best it could be. Maybe it did. If so, I'll just keep the bungi cord handy to hold it in gear crawling down the hills. Doesn't seem the best way. Certainly not what I wanted. But, maybe the best I can get.

[Jeff/Illinois]

Agree. I wouldn't hesitate to send a tranny to Mac he is by far the best in his field from all to whom I have spoken with on this

I will send mine off to him as soon as I'm able to wrastle that bugger out of the truck.

[JSeery]

EP is the Extreme Pressure additive that is added to gear oil. The EP content is indicated by the GL rating. GL-5 is has a high EP rating, GL-4 has a low EP rating. High levels of EP additives are required by modern rear axle gears but can damage (over time) yellow metals in transmissions. There are many past threads on this topic if anyone is interested in more detail.

[JM 35 Sedan]

Originally Posted by Frank Miller

Considering all was inspected and rebuilt I would make sure the shifter linkage is adjusted correctly.

I agree with that. Just putting the linkage back where it was before transmission was removed for rebuild does not mean that it's correct. Mac knows enough about these early Ford transmissions to make sure whatever causes popping out of gear is corrected in the rebuild, and I'm sure he would have done that. Check linkage and adjust if necessary.

[1942deluxe]

Also check the brass bushings on the steering column linkage and the linkage itself.

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by Frank Miller

Considering all was inspected and rebuilt I would make sure the shifter linkage is adjusted correctly.

Originally Posted by JM 35 Sedan

I agree with that. Just putting the linkage back where it was before transmission was removed for rebuild does not mean that it's correct. Mac knows enough about these early Ford transmissions to make sure whatever causes popping out of gear is corrected in the rebuild, and I'm sure he would have done that. Check linkage and adjust if necessary.

Originally Posted by 1942deluxe

Also check the brass bushings on the steering column linkage and the linkage itself.

Will check linkage and report. I replaced the bushings/grommets.

[rotorwrench]

The 51A-7102 intermediate gear is an assembly. I've never seen the bushing sold separately due to it being so thin. A person just has to replace the whole assembly if the bushing is worn.

I think Mac has to modify now to use the 81A-7102 due to lack of availability of the 51A part so this can get expensive. The older type part has to have the earlier type main shaft with the locking pin to work if I remember correctly. If you can find an NOS 51A-7102 then it would just be a single replacement. Big if there. I haven't seen one on flea-pay for a long time and folks bid them up that know what they are.

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by JSeery

EP is the Extreme Pressure additive that is added to gear oil. The EP content is indicated by the GL rating. GL-5 is has a high EP rating, GL-4 has a low EP rating. High levels of EP additives are required by modern rear axle gears but can damage (over time) yellow metals in transmissions. There are many past threads on this topic if anyone is interested in more detail.

Good to know. I just checked the jar of oil I just put in and it had both of those numbers on them - GL-4 and GL-5. I'll try to find just GL-4 next time I change the transmission oil.

[JSeery]

Both rating appear because GL-5 is backward compatible with GL-4 EXCEPT for the yellow metal issue. It's a shame to expose new syncros to GL-5, if it was me I would drain the GL-5 out and replace it. Some GL-5 gear lubes claim to be compatible with yellow metals, might check that out.

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by JSeery

Both rating appear because GL-5 is backward compatible with GL-4 EXCEPT for the yellow metal issue. It's a shame to expose new syncros to GL-5, if it was me I would drain the GL-5 out and replace it. Some GL-5 gear lubes claim to be compatible with yellow metals, might check that out.

I will try to find me some GL – 4 and replace.

[Kens 36]

Readily available at Napa, Prof.

[PeteVS]

When I did my trans last year, I ordered a bunch of parts from Mac. Along with the parts, I had him ship me a jug of GL-4. It's Sta-Lube SAE 140 multi purpose-hypoid, part no. SL24238. I haven't put it in yet because the trans is waiting for the car it's going into to be built.

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by PeteVS

Did you get a picture of the crate?? (I'm kinda like the kid who gets a toy and would rather play with the box it came in.)

Here's the box. Very well made.



It had a fitted lid that screwed on.



Transmission went in bell down and was bolted down to the bottom into the cross braces with lag bolts. Then two 2 X 4's were on the top end screwed in through the wall.



The whole thing was heavy. When the UPS guy came to pick it up he came alone. I said, "I don't lift so can't help you. You got anyone with you to help? This thing is heavy." I couldn't believe it when he grabbed it and lifted it up into the back of his very high bed truck all by himself. I fully expected a back injury. If he had one he didn't let on.

[Mac VP]

To Craig and everyone following this thread. I wanted to digest this for a day before I posted (plus we've been pretty busy, so this reply is being sent after hours). I know that one complaint with the transmission was the popping out of second gear. Aside from the nasty wear on the cluster gear, we took particular care to address the popping out of gear issue. I had initially felt that his second gear was a bit worn with my first glance. We ran it through our cleaner so that everything would be clear as to wear issues. Although the small synchro teeth are showing some wear, I felt ultimately that it was reuseable. We did not have any NOS second gears on hand, and my stock of used 81A-7102 second gears was more or less equivalent to Craig's gear. The bushing inside the gear was not worn to cause me to eliminate its use either.....the fit on the mainshaft was nice.

So, obviously, we look for any other areas of possible endplay problems relating to second gear and the synchro sleeve. His sleeve showed signs of wear in the splines, so we elected to replace it..........and used an OEM Ford sleeve. We ALWAYS check the endplay of 2nd gear on the mainshaft. Using the appropriate spacer washers, we were able to get a clearance of between .004 to .005" endplay. The factory spec is 005 to 015" so I felt confident that we had that under control.

His main drive gear was in very nice condition. Using the correct thickness snap ring on the ball bearing, we know that we had very minimal endplay on the drive gear.

The next area to check is the endplay of the mainshaft in the gearbox. This is controlled by the rear snap ring on the rear ball bearing, the rear oil baffle, the rear bearing retainer, and the correct installation of the u-joint. Since we installed a nice original Ford OEM universal joint, I feel that there would not be any measureable endplay with the mainshaft.

I have attached a picture of Craig's assembled gearset. If you look closely at the synchro teeth on second gear, you can note a slight bit of wear but, in my opinion, not enough to cause the trans to pop out.

Frank Miller's comment about adjustment of the shifter linkage is worth a follow up. If the shift was not fully into the factory location for second gear operation, it could pop out under deceleration. When shifted into second, the synchro sleeve moves to the rear, covering the bronze synchro ring........the steel synchro teeth..........and right up against the shoulder of the 22 teeth part of second gear. If the shifter linkage of the vehicle (from the steering column, down the shifter rod, the clevis, to the pin on the shift lever for 2nd/high) is not in correct adjustment, it's possible that the trans is not fully seated into its 2nd gear location. I mention this as a possibility......it should be checked out. This is not necessarily the culprit but it is a very easy matter to check this detail.

We stand behind our work as Craig knows, and will do what we can to help make this right. Even if it means bringing the transmission back here to have us go through it again.

Mac VanPelt

[Old Henry]

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It took me a little while to figure out how the shifter linkage lengths could cause pop-out if not the right length to put the syncro ring fully into engaged position. So, I'm going to get under the car and study the length of that shifter link and adjust it if necessary just to make sure it will fully seat the syncro ring. Hopefully it's that easy of a fix. I, also, studied the syncro teeth on the 2nd gear in Mac's pictures and, like him, they don't seem to me worn enough to cause pop-out. So, hopefully, it's the shifter linkage. We'll cross our fingers.

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by Kens 36

Readily available at Napa, Prof.

Originally Posted by Old Henry

I will try to find me some GL – 4 and replace.

The only GL-4 I found at NAPA is this marine gear lube for $15.00 a pop. Is that what y'all are using?

[Kens 36]

Craig,

My Napa has this on the shelf - they should be able to order it for you. It is Sta-Lube GL-4, SAE 85W90. Part number SL24239. The gallon costs about $37.

Ken

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by Kens 36

Craig,

My Napa has this on the shelf - they should be able to order it for you. It is Sta-Lube GL-4, SAE 85W90. Part number SL24239. The gallon costs about $37.

Ken

Great! Found it and ordered it to pick up at local store. Thanks for the part#. That's what I needed.

[19Fordy]

Here's STALUBE 140 SAE $9.83 per gal.
https://www.finditparts.com/search?u...l24238&commit=
Cheaper than NAPA even with shipping.

[Drbrown]

Originally Posted by Kens 36

Craig,

My Napa has this on the shelf - they should be able to order it for you. It is Sta-Lube GL-4, SAE 85W90. Part number SL24239. The gallon costs about $37.

Ken

Craig .... my NAPA does not stock the above Sta-Lube item but I found Amazon on-line sells it in jugs at a slightly lower price and ships free if you buy any two or more. So I bought a jug of 85W90 for my tranny and a jug of Sta-Lube SAE 140 for my OD and banjo. I received them in about 5 days.

I recommend you check Amazon to see if they are competitive with other sources.

[David J]

Beware on this !!!!!!!!

Ordered 11 gallons last night and this morning there was an order cancellation notice from then .

No paypal refund yet !!!!!

I'll let ya know how it shakes out .

Originally Posted by 19Fordy

Here's STALUBE 140 SAE $9.83 per gal.
https://www.finditparts.com/search?u...l24238&commit=
Cheaper than NAPA even with shipping.

[donald1950]

Valvoline GL-4 at Grainger.com.... part# is 46KK52 and is $8.75 plus tax...

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by Old Henry

It took me a little while to figure out how the shifter linkage lengths could cause pop-out if not the right length to put the syncro ring fully into engaged position. So, I'm going to get under the car and study the length of that shifter link and adjust it if necessary just to make sure it will fully seat the syncro ring. Hopefully it's that easy of a fix. I, also, studied the syncro teeth on the 2nd gear in Mac's pictures and, like him, they don't seem to me worn enough to cause pop-out. So, hopefully, it's the shifter linkage. We'll cross our fingers.

Finally got back under the car and checked the shifting linkage. It had enough travel both directions to move the 2nd-3rd shift lever all the way to its limits. So, nothing wrong with that.

Sure wish I knew why the transmission pops out of 2nd now worse than ever before - extremely annoying.

[oldogy]

Originally Posted by Old Henry

Sure wish I knew why the transmission pops out of 2nd now worse than ever before - extremely annoying.

I generally don't post much on here but I do feel I should comment on the coming out of second gear issue.
I was driving when these cars, these transmissions, were in use as daily drivers. These transmissions had the tendency to come out of second gear on deceleration when relatively new. It was common practice to hold them in gear when descending steep grades. It was just accepted. My take on the problem is weak detents, cut of the helical gears, the side thrust on the slider when the force is supplied to the slider instead of the cluster gear. The angle of the shift lever when in second gear possibly exacerbates the problem.
I worked in my uncle's 'junkyard' as a teenager and have removed at least a couple of these transmissions. Cluster gear replacement was a common repair. My cousin could install a new cluster gear, slider and blocking rings in about an hour bench time.
If it is not grinding, drive it and enjoy it.
BTW, I've followed and enjoyed all your adventures and looking forward to the next one.

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by oldogy

I generally don't post much on here but I do feel I should comment on the coming out of second gear issue.
I was driving when these cars, these transmissions, were in use as daily drivers. These transmissions had the tendency to come out of second gear on deceleration when relatively new. It was common practice to hold them in gear when descending steep grades. It was just accepted. My take on the problem is weak detents, cut of the helical gears, the side thrust on the slider when the force is supplied to the slider instead of the cluster gear. The angle of the shift lever when in second gear possibly exacerbates the problem.
I worked in my uncle's 'junkyard' as a teenager and have removed at least a couple of these transmissions. Cluster gear replacement was a common repair. My cousin could install a new cluster gear, slider and blocking rings in about an hour bench time.
If it is not grinding, drive it and enjoy it.
BTW, I've followed and enjoyed all your adventures and looking forward to the next one.

Thanks for the information. But, I am having a real hard time just accepting this problem as "that's just how it is" when that just was not how it was with my transmission that never popped out of second gear going down hill (or otherwise) until about a year ago, ever.

Fortunately, this problem will not keep me from driving the west coast from San Francisco to Seattle next month. It will just make any long steep descents very painful. I never had this problem on either of my Pike's Peak trips nor my Mt. Evans trip and there were very very long steep descents on both.

[corvette8n]

Craig, I thought about you when I was driving through Arches National park last week, unfortunately I was driving a rental and not my '41, park roads are torn up some and about a fifth of the park roads are closed due to construction. If anyone plans to visit I suggest you check the park website to see which areas are closed, you may want to wait until construction is done.

[rotorwrench]

I agree that the transmission should not normally back out of gear during normal deceleration.

Deceleration causes the working faces of gears and synchro teeth to reverse pressure from the drive side of the tooth to the back side. Using the engine as a brake when going on a long down hill run will increase the scenario even more. This might require a new 2nd gear plus the blocker and synchronizer hub have to be in very good condition with near perfect mesh to hold up to that. Some play might still exist but it sounds like Mac minimized end play pretty well. Mac mentioned about linkage checks and that is important here. The teeth of the second gear locking fully into that synchro hub sleeve has to be as far as it can go to stay locked in. As I mentioned previously, gear teeth reverse their thrust on helical type gears during deceleration so something has to counter the thrust load change between second gear and the counter shaft cluster gear in that position. If the gear faces are worn a lot, this creates a bit more room for movement during this scenario. This added backlash can cause a bit more of bounce between the gears when a person decelerates.

I don't know of any checks that can be done for gear wear since there are no set dimensions that I am aware of (maybe someone else knows?). They would have to be measured over specific sized pins, just like splines are. I just look at condition of the gear teeth and use ones that are still in good condition with no chipped edges, spalling, scoring, or pitting if possible. It may be that they have a lot of wear but are still visibly in good condition I don't know.

I hope that the situation can be rectified.

[Mac VP]

Craig, when you wish.....no time limit.....we'll be ready to go through the transmission again. If you want to wait till after the driving season that is fine with us, but we're ready to tackle this at any time. Contact me when you're ready to pull the transmission and we'll get it back here, and address the issue.

[SofaKing]

Originally Posted by Mac VP

Craig, when you wish.....no time limit.....we'll be ready to go through the transmission again. If you want to wait till after the driving season that is fine with us, but we're ready to tackle this at any time. Contact me when you're ready to pull the transmission and we'll get it back here, and address the issue.

Mac- very classy and decent of you.

Craig- If you are still looking for Sta-lube try Marshalls Industrial Hardware at I-215 and California Ave 801-978-0555. That's where I bought it here in SLC, they're not cheap but they're local.

[pooch]

Going down a hill is pulling the engine/gearbox backwards via the torque tube.

If you have spongey engine mounts, and a floor shift, you could see any jerking movement, but as you have a column shift, it is not visible easily.

Is there a floor plate over the box that you can remove and see any movement?

[Drbrown]

"IMHO" thinking: Given the three engine mounts in a '47, such as I also have, (2 pads in front; one saddle clamp pad on rear of tranny), combined with the frame to engine longitudinal anti-chatter rods .... if in good condition and properly installed, I believe there is little to no opportunity for longitudinal (front to rear) movement in the engine-tranny-torque tube assembly within the car frame considering they are all bolted together. However, as noted in this thread, the movement of the internal parts and acceleration and deacceleration of the car produce varying ROTATIONAL stresses in the assembly .... i.e. clutch pedal and transmission shift connections. The universal joint allows some minor internal front to rear movement at the torque tube shaft.

Also, lateral (side to side) shifting of the rear of the body produces lateral stresses on the rear of the torque tube and axle-wheel assembly due to the flexibility in the rear spring (the stock sway bar may reduce this), shocks and rubber tires.

The "popping out of gear" during acceleration/deceleration/inclines/declines (hills) together with the shift in car body weight suggests to me that something is happening in the shift linkage between the car body and tranny .

[rotorwrench]

Ford discontinued the use of anti-chatter rods or engine radius rods just before involvement in WWII so this car wouldn't have them unless someone installed a modification at some point. The movement of the engine can effect clutch and shift linkage if the mounts are spongy and the engine/drive train moves around too much.

[Kahuna]

Who pays to pull that transmission again?

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by Kahuna

Who pays to pull that transmission again?

No one pays. I suffer the torture myself, just like every time.

[slowforty]

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At least everything will be nice and clean.

[pooch]

We had a guy in our club with a late 40/s chevy with a problem gearbox.

He had it out so many times, another club member suggested he puts in back in with wing nuts next time to make it easier the next time out.

[Lawrie]

One thing to remember is we are dealing with a 70 yr old car, we are lucky to have suppliers like Mac on hand,BUT,these parts are not available at the local Ford dealer,if they were we could just drop in and get a new trans,job done,but we can't,for those of us who do a lot of miles, we have to do the best with what is available.
Hang in there Craig
Lawrie

[rotorwrench]

I've pulled transmissions out several times in a row due to problems but most of the problems were of my own making or lack of good judgment. We all take risks at one time or another on some of these old parts just because there aren't a whole lot of good replacement parts out there and the ones that are ain't cheap. I've learned plenty of lessons in the school of hard knocks but I've also gotten lucky a time or two.

[Mart]

My 40 used to pop out of 2nd. I think the column linkage does not help. In 2nd the shift lever is up. Gravity is trying to pull it down. If the 2nd gear is borderline, the linkage will push it to the wrong side of borderline and pop it out.

I had grandiose designs for a spring assist but sold the car before coming up with a proper solution.

Just my musings.

Mart.

[Terry,OH]

I see in the V8 Times: Early Ford V8 Sales, Inc. has new 81A-7102 second gear, if it comes to that. I too suspect another problem and believe driving the car with the transmission floor cover off may help find it.

[rotorwrench]

The 81A-7102 2nd gear was the original design for these type gears. It uses a sleeve inside the bushing and a pin in the main shaft to hold it all in position. A change to this type gear may require a change back to the old style main shaft. The 51A-7102 was used after the war and they are harder to find NOS. It might be time for a change unless a person can come up with the later part. The early style might work well in deceleration but I don't know if it would be any better or not.