VanPelt 47 Tranny Rebuild

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by JSeery

Both rating appear because GL-5 is backward compatible with GL-4 EXCEPT for the yellow metal issue. It's a shame to expose new syncros to GL-5, if it was me I would drain the GL-5 out and replace it. Some GL-5 gear lubes claim to be compatible with yellow metals, might check that out.

I will try to find me some GL – 4 and replace.

[Kens 36]

Readily available at Napa, Prof.

[PeteVS]

When I did my trans last year, I ordered a bunch of parts from Mac. Along with the parts, I had him ship me a jug of GL-4. It's Sta-Lube SAE 140 multi purpose-hypoid, part no. SL24238. I haven't put it in yet because the trans is waiting for the car it's going into to be built.

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by PeteVS

Did you get a picture of the crate?? (I'm kinda like the kid who gets a toy and would rather play with the box it came in.)

Here's the box. Very well made.



It had a fitted lid that screwed on.



Transmission went in bell down and was bolted down to the bottom into the cross braces with lag bolts. Then two 2 X 4's were on the top end screwed in through the wall.



The whole thing was heavy. When the UPS guy came to pick it up he came alone. I said, "I don't lift so can't help you. You got anyone with you to help? This thing is heavy." I couldn't believe it when he grabbed it and lifted it up into the back of his very high bed truck all by himself. I fully expected a back injury. If he had one he didn't let on.

[Mac VP]

To Craig and everyone following this thread. I wanted to digest this for a day before I posted (plus we've been pretty busy, so this reply is being sent after hours). I know that one complaint with the transmission was the popping out of second gear. Aside from the nasty wear on the cluster gear, we took particular care to address the popping out of gear issue. I had initially felt that his second gear was a bit worn with my first glance. We ran it through our cleaner so that everything would be clear as to wear issues. Although the small synchro teeth are showing some wear, I felt ultimately that it was reuseable. We did not have any NOS second gears on hand, and my stock of used 81A-7102 second gears was more or less equivalent to Craig's gear. The bushing inside the gear was not worn to cause me to eliminate its use either.....the fit on the mainshaft was nice.

So, obviously, we look for any other areas of possible endplay problems relating to second gear and the synchro sleeve. His sleeve showed signs of wear in the splines, so we elected to replace it..........and used an OEM Ford sleeve. We ALWAYS check the endplay of 2nd gear on the mainshaft. Using the appropriate spacer washers, we were able to get a clearance of between .004 to .005" endplay. The factory spec is 005 to 015" so I felt confident that we had that under control.

His main drive gear was in very nice condition. Using the correct thickness snap ring on the ball bearing, we know that we had very minimal endplay on the drive gear.

The next area to check is the endplay of the mainshaft in the gearbox. This is controlled by the rear snap ring on the rear ball bearing, the rear oil baffle, the rear bearing retainer, and the correct installation of the u-joint. Since we installed a nice original Ford OEM universal joint, I feel that there would not be any measureable endplay with the mainshaft.

I have attached a picture of Craig's assembled gearset. If you look closely at the synchro teeth on second gear, you can note a slight bit of wear but, in my opinion, not enough to cause the trans to pop out.

Frank Miller's comment about adjustment of the shifter linkage is worth a follow up. If the shift was not fully into the factory location for second gear operation, it could pop out under deceleration. When shifted into second, the synchro sleeve moves to the rear, covering the bronze synchro ring........the steel synchro teeth..........and right up against the shoulder of the 22 teeth part of second gear. If the shifter linkage of the vehicle (from the steering column, down the shifter rod, the clevis, to the pin on the shift lever for 2nd/high) is not in correct adjustment, it's possible that the trans is not fully seated into its 2nd gear location. I mention this as a possibility......it should be checked out. This is not necessarily the culprit but it is a very easy matter to check this detail.

We stand behind our work as Craig knows, and will do what we can to help make this right. Even if it means bringing the transmission back here to have us go through it again.

Mac VanPelt

[Old Henry]

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It took me a little while to figure out how the shifter linkage lengths could cause pop-out if not the right length to put the syncro ring fully into engaged position. So, I'm going to get under the car and study the length of that shifter link and adjust it if necessary just to make sure it will fully seat the syncro ring. Hopefully it's that easy of a fix. I, also, studied the syncro teeth on the 2nd gear in Mac's pictures and, like him, they don't seem to me worn enough to cause pop-out. So, hopefully, it's the shifter linkage. We'll cross our fingers.

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by Kens 36

Readily available at Napa, Prof.

Originally Posted by Old Henry

I will try to find me some GL – 4 and replace.

The only GL-4 I found at NAPA is this marine gear lube for $15.00 a pop. Is that what y'all are using?

[Kens 36]

Craig,

My Napa has this on the shelf - they should be able to order it for you. It is Sta-Lube GL-4, SAE 85W90. Part number SL24239. The gallon costs about $37.

Ken

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by Kens 36

Craig,

My Napa has this on the shelf - they should be able to order it for you. It is Sta-Lube GL-4, SAE 85W90. Part number SL24239. The gallon costs about $37.

Ken

Great! Found it and ordered it to pick up at local store. Thanks for the part#. That's what I needed.

[19Fordy]

Here's STALUBE 140 SAE $9.83 per gal.
https://www.finditparts.com/search?u...l24238&commit=
Cheaper than NAPA even with shipping.

[Drbrown]

Originally Posted by Kens 36

Craig,

My Napa has this on the shelf - they should be able to order it for you. It is Sta-Lube GL-4, SAE 85W90. Part number SL24239. The gallon costs about $37.

Ken

Craig .... my NAPA does not stock the above Sta-Lube item but I found Amazon on-line sells it in jugs at a slightly lower price and ships free if you buy any two or more. So I bought a jug of 85W90 for my tranny and a jug of Sta-Lube SAE 140 for my OD and banjo. I received them in about 5 days.

I recommend you check Amazon to see if they are competitive with other sources.

[David J]

Beware on this !!!!!!!!

Ordered 11 gallons last night and this morning there was an order cancellation notice from then .

No paypal refund yet !!!!!

I'll let ya know how it shakes out .

Originally Posted by 19Fordy

Here's STALUBE 140 SAE $9.83 per gal.
https://www.finditparts.com/search?u...l24238&commit=
Cheaper than NAPA even with shipping.

[donald1950]

Valvoline GL-4 at Grainger.com.... part# is 46KK52 and is $8.75 plus tax...

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by Old Henry

It took me a little while to figure out how the shifter linkage lengths could cause pop-out if not the right length to put the syncro ring fully into engaged position. So, I'm going to get under the car and study the length of that shifter link and adjust it if necessary just to make sure it will fully seat the syncro ring. Hopefully it's that easy of a fix. I, also, studied the syncro teeth on the 2nd gear in Mac's pictures and, like him, they don't seem to me worn enough to cause pop-out. So, hopefully, it's the shifter linkage. We'll cross our fingers.

Finally got back under the car and checked the shifting linkage. It had enough travel both directions to move the 2nd-3rd shift lever all the way to its limits. So, nothing wrong with that.

Sure wish I knew why the transmission pops out of 2nd now worse than ever before - extremely annoying.

[oldogy]

Originally Posted by Old Henry

Sure wish I knew why the transmission pops out of 2nd now worse than ever before - extremely annoying.

I generally don't post much on here but I do feel I should comment on the coming out of second gear issue.
I was driving when these cars, these transmissions, were in use as daily drivers. These transmissions had the tendency to come out of second gear on deceleration when relatively new. It was common practice to hold them in gear when descending steep grades. It was just accepted. My take on the problem is weak detents, cut of the helical gears, the side thrust on the slider when the force is supplied to the slider instead of the cluster gear. The angle of the shift lever when in second gear possibly exacerbates the problem.
I worked in my uncle's 'junkyard' as a teenager and have removed at least a couple of these transmissions. Cluster gear replacement was a common repair. My cousin could install a new cluster gear, slider and blocking rings in about an hour bench time.
If it is not grinding, drive it and enjoy it.
BTW, I've followed and enjoyed all your adventures and looking forward to the next one.

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by oldogy

I generally don't post much on here but I do feel I should comment on the coming out of second gear issue.
I was driving when these cars, these transmissions, were in use as daily drivers. These transmissions had the tendency to come out of second gear on deceleration when relatively new. It was common practice to hold them in gear when descending steep grades. It was just accepted. My take on the problem is weak detents, cut of the helical gears, the side thrust on the slider when the force is supplied to the slider instead of the cluster gear. The angle of the shift lever when in second gear possibly exacerbates the problem.
I worked in my uncle's 'junkyard' as a teenager and have removed at least a couple of these transmissions. Cluster gear replacement was a common repair. My cousin could install a new cluster gear, slider and blocking rings in about an hour bench time.
If it is not grinding, drive it and enjoy it.
BTW, I've followed and enjoyed all your adventures and looking forward to the next one.

Thanks for the information. But, I am having a real hard time just accepting this problem as "that's just how it is" when that just was not how it was with my transmission that never popped out of second gear going down hill (or otherwise) until about a year ago, ever.

Fortunately, this problem will not keep me from driving the west coast from San Francisco to Seattle next month. It will just make any long steep descents very painful. I never had this problem on either of my Pike's Peak trips nor my Mt. Evans trip and there were very very long steep descents on both.

[corvette8n]

Craig, I thought about you when I was driving through Arches National park last week, unfortunately I was driving a rental and not my '41, park roads are torn up some and about a fifth of the park roads are closed due to construction. If anyone plans to visit I suggest you check the park website to see which areas are closed, you may want to wait until construction is done.

[rotorwrench]

I agree that the transmission should not normally back out of gear during normal deceleration.

Deceleration causes the working faces of gears and synchro teeth to reverse pressure from the drive side of the tooth to the back side. Using the engine as a brake when going on a long down hill run will increase the scenario even more. This might require a new 2nd gear plus the blocker and synchronizer hub have to be in very good condition with near perfect mesh to hold up to that. Some play might still exist but it sounds like Mac minimized end play pretty well. Mac mentioned about linkage checks and that is important here. The teeth of the second gear locking fully into that synchro hub sleeve has to be as far as it can go to stay locked in. As I mentioned previously, gear teeth reverse their thrust on helical type gears during deceleration so something has to counter the thrust load change between second gear and the counter shaft cluster gear in that position. If the gear faces are worn a lot, this creates a bit more room for movement during this scenario. This added backlash can cause a bit more of bounce between the gears when a person decelerates.

I don't know of any checks that can be done for gear wear since there are no set dimensions that I am aware of (maybe someone else knows?). They would have to be measured over specific sized pins, just like splines are. I just look at condition of the gear teeth and use ones that are still in good condition with no chipped edges, spalling, scoring, or pitting if possible. It may be that they have a lot of wear but are still visibly in good condition I don't know.

I hope that the situation can be rectified.

[Mac VP]

Craig, when you wish.....no time limit.....we'll be ready to go through the transmission again. If you want to wait till after the driving season that is fine with us, but we're ready to tackle this at any time. Contact me when you're ready to pull the transmission and we'll get it back here, and address the issue.

[SofaKing]

Originally Posted by Mac VP

Craig, when you wish.....no time limit.....we'll be ready to go through the transmission again. If you want to wait till after the driving season that is fine with us, but we're ready to tackle this at any time. Contact me when you're ready to pull the transmission and we'll get it back here, and address the issue.

Mac- very classy and decent of you.

Craig- If you are still looking for Sta-lube try Marshalls Industrial Hardware at I-215 and California Ave 801-978-0555. That's where I bought it here in SLC, they're not cheap but they're local.