The Ford Barn

frank d kirkstad · 01-03-2021, 11:26 AM

Hello, Happy New Year, I hope everyone is staying healthy. I want to repaint my 36 coupe which is black. I want to stay with black because this will be a body on and I will be able to leave the firewall and door jams alone. I don't really like the look of the basecoat clearcoat on older cars. I would like to go with a single stage. I'm not sure if acrylic lacquer is still available here in NJ, but I have heard many good comments about single stage urethane. I know that black requires more work in preparing the surface for paint, but I am more concerned about picking the shade, some blacks look grayish, some brownish, I would want the darkest black possible if that makes sense. I appreciate any help in pointing me in the right direction. Thank you. Frank

deuce_roadster · 01-03-2021, 11:38 AM

I only use single stage paint for the same reason you don't like base/clear. If you don't put clear over the single stage it doesn't have the "plastic" look of base/clear. I have had very good results using Tamco's black. Tammy (whos father ran a PPG business) now has the business and hence the name. I live on the west coast and I can get paint products from Tamco in 2 or 3 days at half the price of the local Westco company. Look them up online or call them.
I think Tamco is in NJ as you are.

Willit Stop · 01-03-2021, 11:43 AM

You could talk to someone at an automotive paint store. Most blacks are not actually black. It depends on the toners that are part of the formula. The paint guy could look up the formula and determine the blackest.

dave collette · 01-03-2021, 11:59 AM

PPG concept is the blackest you will find.A little pricey but if you want a quality job this is the best by far. Easy to paint ,easy to repair and easy to spot in if you get a stone chip. It is acrylic urethane paint.

Kube · 01-03-2021, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dave collette

PPG concept is the blackest you will find.A little pricey but if you want a quality job this is the best by far. Easy to paint ,easy to repair and easy to spot in if you get a stone chip. It is acrylic urethane paint.

x2, although I'd only use it on chassis parts.

Tim Ayers · 01-03-2021, 01:19 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

https://tamcopaint.com/collections/s...basecoat-paint

TomTruck · 01-03-2021, 07:11 PM

I used PPG Delfleet Essential and am happy with it. It is a urethane single stage.

35fordtn · 01-03-2021, 09:43 PM

While I don’t paint much I used to only use PPG concept 9300 for black. Every since I swapped to Tamco two years ago I haven’t looked back. Their black to me is as good as Concept but 1/3 the price. It is thick and will require a bit more reducer. DuPont is great as well and is a bit more user friendly for me anyways but expensive and harder to get here where I live.

flathead48 · 01-04-2021, 07:14 AM

SPI located in Georgia, a father son business, some of the best products I have used and prices are good and customer service is second to none.

Frank Miller · 01-04-2021, 08:30 AM

It's not that black requires more prep work. It just shows flaws more. Technically you do not want flaws no matter what the color.

PeterC · 01-04-2021, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frank d kirkstad

Hello, Happy New Year, I hope everyone is staying healthy. I want to repaint my 36 coupe which is black. I want to stay with black because this will be a body on and I will be able to leave the firewall and door jams alone. I don't really like the look of the basecoat clearcoat on older cars. I would like to go with a single stage. I'm not sure if acrylic lacquer is still available here in NJ, but I have heard many good comments about single stage urethane. I know that black requires more work in preparing the surface for paint, but I am more concerned about picking the shade, some blacks look grayish, some brownish, I would want the darkest black possible if that makes sense. I appreciate any help in pointing me in the right direction. Thank you. Frank

Frank - My 35 Coupe was shot with old school Dupont Centari "Pitch Black" Acrylic Enamel 99A. Admittedly it is harder to get now as less popular - much discussions re outdated technology, environmental concerns etc. I've been very happy with the results.

russcc · 01-04-2021, 10:05 AM

A little of topic, but the '40 coupe was painted black over my favorite color, cloud mist gray, probably with lacquer in the '60s. I never plan to repaint it as the some of the lacquer has crazed and shows it's age, which what I like. I am looking for a black that I could use to touch up some areas from time to time. Would the Tamco or other paint product be compatible with the ancient lacquer ?

mfirth · 01-04-2021, 10:16 AM

I have a friend who painted his truck in his back yard using Centari Pitch Black and it is stunning !!! Just say'n .......

deuce_roadster · 01-04-2021, 10:57 AM

russcc, it is my belief that touching up old lacquer with enamel or urethane would be quite noticeable. If it were me I would find some black lacquer and correct thinner for that and try to blend it and then rub it out. My 2 cents.

mrlaser · 01-04-2021, 01:11 PM

I used Centari Pitch Black with a hardener with excellent results. I intentionally did not clear coat or color sand and buff to approximate the original finish. I believe that it is still available in some areas under a different name.

mfirth · 01-04-2021, 02:50 PM

Mrlaser, what sweet "T"....just something about the coupe.

mfirth · 01-04-2021, 02:51 PM

Ooops..a sweet "T"

mrlaser · 01-04-2021, 03:28 PM

Sweet tea is very popular here in Savannah and the South in general. Thanks.

russcc · 01-04-2021, 07:18 PM

Anyone have an idea where you might find black lacquer I could use for paint touch up ?

Ken/Alabama · 01-04-2021, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeterC

Frank - My 35 Coupe was shot with old school Dupont Centari "Pitch Black" Acrylic Enamel 99A. Admittedly it is harder to get now as less popular - much discussions re outdated technology, environmental concerns etc. I've been very happy with the results.

I liked the Centari. Don’t think you can get it now. Very durable.

Ken/Alabama · 01-04-2021, 07:44 PM

Painted my Zephyr with PPG Concept single stage. Very pricey.

Zeke3 · 01-04-2021, 07:54 PM

Ken, the finish on your Zephyr is amazing, it looks like a mirror in this photo. That is a beautiful, unusual car.

Tinker · 01-04-2021, 08:59 PM

It's been mentioned before above, but there are two black tones when painting a car. Brown black and a blue black. The blue black is deeper. Next time we have shows and your walking around, step back on a black car and let the sun reflect off the car. It's easier to see the difference and there is a difference.

On my truck i did single stage ppg 9300 black (it's just standard black for ppg). It's been 6 yrs so the numbers could have changed. It's a blue black and consistent in sunlight. Added a little flattener so it was only a little bit glossy.

About 900$ a gallon for color back then. But if I'm going through all the trouble of metal, prep, and sanding. Why would I cut a corner on the final presentable stage.

frank d kirkstad · 01-05-2021, 10:44 AM

Thank you for all the information and pictures regarding paints and what to look for, I really appreciate it. If I can get my car to look half as good as the pictures you folks have sent, I'll be happy. Frank.

Tim Ayers · 01-05-2021, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken/Alabama

Painted my Zephyr with PPG Concept single stage. Very pricey.

Ken:

Gorgeous. Is Concept the new water based paint?

Ken/Alabama · 01-05-2021, 03:33 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Ayers

Ken:

Gorgeous. Is Concept the new water based paint?

No, it’s acrylic urethane. I like it ok but if I had to do it over again I’d use acrylic enamel.

Bored&Stroked · 01-05-2021, 04:08 PM

The single most important parts of the job are the prep work and quality of materials.

Are you planning to strip the paint off of the car before you apply new paint? I hope so - especially if there are any issues with cracking, lifting, bubbling, etc.. If you try to apply new paint (especially lacquer) over older paint - you can easily have adhesion problems - due to the solvent penetrating down into the old material. If you have any doubts, strip the car, redo any sketchy body work, use quality epoxy primers for sealing, etc..

There are many different brands/types of paint that you can use - and some are a lot harder to apply than others (depending on your skills). Do you have experience painting any type of automotive paint -- lacquer, enamel, acrylic enamel, urethane, etc?

Do you have a decent quality HVLP paint gun? If not, I recommend the DevilBliss StartingLine or FinishLine guns . . . both spray remarkably well for the price. I tend to use these guns for a lot of my smaller work - versus the high-end SATA stuff I have.

You'll find that removing the doors and painting them "flat" will give you the best possible results (if ur not a professional painter). I usually recommend painting the door jambs of the body and the doors - always looks better. I paint the jambs on the doors first, then mask them off before I do the outside areas. BUT, this requires all rubber stripping be removed, a lot of extra prep, masking, etc..

If you are new to painting, consider doing some test work on an old fender (something you can get at a junkyard). Do all the prep, do the primer, do the sealer and then apply the paint. If the paint is going to be rubbed out, then do this as well. Take time to learn on something you're not in love with . . . before you paint your car.

Enough outta me!
B&S

frank d kirkstad · 01-07-2021, 04:44 PM

Thank you Bored & Stroked for your questions and comments. I have no experience with these new paints. I have painted my Model A using bonnie Gray nitrocellular lacquer color on body with acrylic enamel black on the fenders. I painted my brothers old chevy. nova with maroon acrylic lacquer. Both cars came out very well. Back then I was using a devilBliss siphon type gun. I plan on getting a new HVLP gun and I do have a decent compressor. Yes, I do plan to strip off all the old paint and use a good primer. Do I also have to use a primer sealer since I will be at bare metal, just trying to save a step. Thank You. Frank

old31 · 01-07-2021, 06:00 PM

I have had very good luck with Nasson SS black. It is very black.

Nasson was Dupont brand.

old31 · 01-07-2021, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken/Alabama

Painted my Zephyr with PPG Concept single stage. Very pricey.

Ken that reflection coming from your car is stunning. Beautiful job.

Bored&Stroked · 01-07-2021, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frank d kirkstad

Thank you Bored & Stroked for your questions and comments. I have no experience with these new paints. I have painted my Model A using bonnie Gray nitrocellular lacquer color on body with acrylic enamel black on the fenders. I painted my brothers old chevy. nova with maroon acrylic lacquer. Both cars came out very well. Back then I was using a devilBliss siphon type gun. I plan on getting a new HVLP gun and I do have a decent compressor. Yes, I do plan to strip off all the old paint and use a good primer. Do I also have to use a primer sealer since I will be at bare metal, just trying to save a step. Thank You. Frank

If you're stripping it down, then I would try to use a quality epoxy primer as soon as possible over the bare metal - using a metal-prep beforehand, re-scuffing after it for good measure (before the epoxy primer) and making sure you don't wait for any surface rust to start. Usually I use ScotchBrite as my "scuffer" after the metal-prep and surface cleaning . . . many say you don't need too, but I've found better results when I do (being careful not to put my bare hands on the surface).

These newer primers seal extremely well and will not let any moisture get through to the metal or body filler below. Once you apply a couple of good coats of epoxy primer, then you can scuff it and put a higher-build type of primer on it (for block sanding and getting all the small imperfections out).

If you are stripping and doing bodywork on a section of the car at a time (like most of us do) - then cover each section with the epoxy primer in stages - trying to seal things up as soon as you can. Many shops today only put body filler over the epoxy primer - as it seals the metal off and ensures that no moisture gets through.

Depending on the top-coat material (type/brand) and associated recommendations, you may need a 'sealer' over the high-build primer.

In many cases a sealer gives you a consistent cover coat - before you apply your base color. Usually sealers are applied right before the base coats - with appropriate flash time (again, depending on the paint).

You may be able to skip the sealer step - depending on the materials you use (type and brand of paint), how well your base primer has covered and what is recommended by the mfgr.

Best of luck!

Fortunateson · 01-07-2021, 08:29 PM

I love Centari. My first paint job with a small 2hp compressor using a gun metal gray metallic turned out incredible. One tiny run but a razor blade took care of that. A light polishing, which wasn't recommended and the car looked great. My nephew who is a boy man asked me who/where I got it painted...he sure was surprised.

Just finished using PPG shop line and wasn't impressed. I've seen a lot of cars done with Delfleet and they all looked great in single stage. And the paint chips for selection are about 2"x3" and there are a LOT of them so I'm sure you could find something. Up here Delfleet all in price is about $275 CDN so very reasonable.

Tim Ayers · 01-07-2021, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fortunateson

I love Centari. My first paint job with a small 2hp compressor using a gun metal gray metallic turned out incredible. One tiny run but a razor blade took care of that. A light polishing, which wasn't recommended and the car looked great. My nephew who is a boy man asked me who/where I got it painted...he sure was surprised.

Just finished using PPG shop line and wasn't impressed. I've seen a lot of cars done with Delfleet and they all looked great in single stage. And the paint chips for selection are about 2"x3" and there are a LOT of them so I'm sure you could find something. Up here Delfleet all in price is about $275 CDN so very reasonable.

That brings back memories. When I was 17, I painted my first car (VW Bug) outside on the driveway one summer evening using my dad's Sears 2 hp compressor and Mars Red Centari. I used tweezers to pick out the bugs. After a buff, it came out OK.

I do regret not wearing a mask. I had red snots for about a week.

Graeme / New Zealand · 01-07-2021, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tinker

It's been mentioned before above, but there are two black tones when painting a car. Brown black and a blue black. The blue black is deeper. Next time we have shows and your walking around, step back on a black car and let the sun reflect off the car. It's easier to see the difference and there is a difference.

On my truck i did single stage ppg 9300 black (it's just standard black for ppg). It's been 6 yrs so the numbers could have changed. It's a blue black and consistent in sunlight. Added a little flattener so it was only a little bit glossy.

About 900$ a gallon for color back then. But if I'm going through all the trouble of metal, prep, and sanding. Why would I cut a corner on the final presentable stage.

In the days of the old fountain pen "blue black" was the nicest hue of ink too.

GB

Scott52 · 01-09-2021, 10:18 AM

I am not a paint expert at all. My 1956 Chevrolet (I also have a 52 Ford and a Dodge power wagon) was painted single stage Black and Ivoryt 2 tone and the painter used PPG/Omni 9700. I like the more "dull" appearance of the single stage for original looking cars. It's been 10 years and the paint looks great.

01-03-2021, 11:26 AM	#1
frank d kirkstad Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2019 Location: Little Silver, New Jersey Posts: 28	Black single stage paint. Hello, Happy New Year, I hope everyone is staying healthy. I want to repaint my 36 coupe which is black. I want to stay with black because this will be a body on and I will be able to leave the firewall and door jams alone. I don't really like the look of the basecoat clearcoat on older cars. I would like to go with a single stage. I'm not sure if acrylic lacquer is still available here in NJ, but I have heard many good comments about single stage urethane. I know that black requires more work in preparing the surface for paint, but I am more concerned about picking the shade, some blacks look grayish, some brownish, I would want the darkest black possible if that makes sense. I appreciate any help in pointing me in the right direction. Thank you. Frank

01-03-2021, 11:38 AM	#2
deuce_roadster Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Shelton, WA Posts: 3,800	Re: Black single stage paint. I only use single stage paint for the same reason you don't like base/clear. If you don't put clear over the single stage it doesn't have the "plastic" look of base/clear. I have had very good results using Tamco's black. Tammy (whos father ran a PPG business) now has the business and hence the name. I live on the west coast and I can get paint products from Tamco in 2 or 3 days at half the price of the local Westco company. Look them up online or call them. I think Tamco is in NJ as you are.

01-03-2021, 11:43 AM	#3
Willit Stop Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Eureka Calif. Posts: 969	Re: Black single stage paint. You could talk to someone at an automotive paint store. Most blacks are not actually black. It depends on the toners that are part of the formula. The paint guy could look up the formula and determine the blackest.

01-03-2021, 11:59 AM	#4
dave collette Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portersville Pa. Posts: 173	Re: Black single stage paint. PPG concept is the blackest you will find.A little pricey but if you want a quality job this is the best by far. Easy to paint ,easy to repair and easy to spot in if you get a stone chip. It is acrylic urethane paint.

01-03-2021, 01:19 PM	#6
Tim Ayers Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: NJ Posts: 6,181	Re: Black single stage paint. Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) https://tamcopaint.com/collections/s...basecoat-paint

01-03-2021, 07:11 PM	#7
TomTruck Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Va. Posts: 41	Re: Black single stage paint. I used PPG Delfleet Essential and am happy with it. It is a urethane single stage.

01-03-2021, 09:43 PM	#8
35fordtn Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: McMinnville, TN Posts: 2,327	Re: Black single stage paint. While I don’t paint much I used to only use PPG concept 9300 for black. Every since I swapped to Tamco two years ago I haven’t looked back. Their black to me is as good as Concept but 1/3 the price. It is thick and will require a bit more reducer. DuPont is great as well and is a bit more user friendly for me anyways but expensive and harder to get here where I live.

01-04-2021, 07:14 AM	#9
flathead48 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Saratoga Springs, NY Posts: 1,110	Re: Black single stage paint. SPI located in Georgia, a father son business, some of the best products I have used and prices are good and customer service is second to none.

01-04-2021, 08:30 AM	#10
Frank Miller Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Auburn, MA Posts: 2,106	Re: Black single stage paint. It's not that black requires more prep work. It just shows flaws more. Technically you do not want flaws no matter what the color. __________________ “The technique of infamy is to start two lies at once and get people arguing heatedly over which is true.” ~ Ezra Pound

01-04-2021, 10:05 AM	#12
russcc Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,871	Re: Black single stage paint. A little of topic, but the '40 coupe was painted black over my favorite color, cloud mist gray, probably with lacquer in the '60s. I never plan to repaint it as the some of the lacquer has crazed and shows it's age, which what I like. I am looking for a black that I could use to touch up some areas from time to time. Would the Tamco or other paint product be compatible with the ancient lacquer ?

01-04-2021, 10:16 AM	#13
mfirth Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: ohio Posts: 986	Re: Black single stage paint. I have a friend who painted his truck in his back yard using Centari Pitch Black and it is stunning !!! Just say'n .......

01-04-2021, 10:57 AM	#14
deuce_roadster Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Shelton, WA Posts: 3,800	Re: Black single stage paint. russcc, it is my belief that touching up old lacquer with enamel or urethane would be quite noticeable. If it were me I would find some black lacquer and correct thinner for that and try to blend it and then rub it out. My 2 cents.

01-04-2021, 02:50 PM	#16
mfirth Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: ohio Posts: 986	Re: Black single stage paint. Mrlaser, what sweet "T"....just something about the coupe.

01-04-2021, 02:51 PM	#17
mfirth Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: ohio Posts: 986	Re: Black single stage paint. Ooops..a sweet "T"

01-04-2021, 03:28 PM	#18
mrlaser Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: Savannah, Ga Posts: 225	Re: Black single stage paint. Sweet tea is very popular here in Savannah and the South in general. Thanks.

01-04-2021, 07:18 PM	#19
russcc Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,871	Re: Black single stage paint. Anyone have an idea where you might find black lacquer I could use for paint touch up ?

01-04-2021, 07:54 PM	#22
Zeke3 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Columbus, IN Posts: 1,407	Re: Black single stage paint. Ken, the finish on your Zephyr is amazing, it looks like a mirror in this photo. That is a beautiful, unusual car.

01-04-2021, 08:59 PM	#23
Tinker Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: MN Posts: 7,053	Re: Black single stage paint. It's been mentioned before above, but there are two black tones when painting a car. Brown black and a blue black. The blue black is deeper. Next time we have shows and your walking around, step back on a black car and let the sun reflect off the car. It's easier to see the difference and there is a difference. On my truck i did single stage ppg 9300 black (it's just standard black for ppg). It's been 6 yrs so the numbers could have changed. It's a blue black and consistent in sunlight. Added a little flattener so it was only a little bit glossy. About 900$ a gallon for color back then. But if I'm going through all the trouble of metal, prep, and sanding. Why would I cut a corner on the final presentable stage.

01-05-2021, 10:44 AM	#24
frank d kirkstad Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2019 Location: Little Silver, New Jersey Posts: 28	Re: Black single stage paint. Thank you for all the information and pictures regarding paints and what to look for, I really appreciate it. If I can get my car to look half as good as the pictures you folks have sent, I'll be happy. Frank.

01-05-2021, 04:08 PM	#27
Bored&Stroked Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 5,067	Re: Black single stage paint. The single most important parts of the job are the prep work and quality of materials. Are you planning to strip the paint off of the car before you apply new paint? I hope so - especially if there are any issues with cracking, lifting, bubbling, etc.. If you try to apply new paint (especially lacquer) over older paint - you can easily have adhesion problems - due to the solvent penetrating down into the old material. If you have any doubts, strip the car, redo any sketchy body work, use quality epoxy primers for sealing, etc.. There are many different brands/types of paint that you can use - and some are a lot harder to apply than others (depending on your skills). Do you have experience painting any type of automotive paint -- lacquer, enamel, acrylic enamel, urethane, etc? Do you have a decent quality HVLP paint gun? If not, I recommend the DevilBliss StartingLine or FinishLine guns . . . both spray remarkably well for the price. I tend to use these guns for a lot of my smaller work - versus the high-end SATA stuff I have. You'll find that removing the doors and painting them "flat" will give you the best possible results (if ur not a professional painter). I usually recommend painting the door jambs of the body and the doors - always looks better. I paint the jambs on the doors first, then mask them off before I do the outside areas. BUT, this requires all rubber stripping be removed, a lot of extra prep, masking, etc.. If you are new to painting, consider doing some test work on an old fender (something you can get at a junkyard). Do all the prep, do the primer, do the sealer and then apply the paint. If the paint is going to be rubbed out, then do this as well. Take time to learn on something you're not in love with . . . before you paint your car. Enough outta me! B&S

01-07-2021, 04:44 PM	#28
frank d kirkstad Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2019 Location: Little Silver, New Jersey Posts: 28	Re: Black single stage paint. Thank you Bored & Stroked for your questions and comments. I have no experience with these new paints. I have painted my Model A using bonnie Gray nitrocellular lacquer color on body with acrylic enamel black on the fenders. I painted my brothers old chevy. nova with maroon acrylic lacquer. Both cars came out very well. Back then I was using a devilBliss siphon type gun. I plan on getting a new HVLP gun and I do have a decent compressor. Yes, I do plan to strip off all the old paint and use a good primer. Do I also have to use a primer sealer since I will be at bare metal, just trying to save a step. Thank You. Frank

01-07-2021, 06:00 PM	#29
old31 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 2,101	Re: Black single stage paint. I have had very good luck with Nasson SS black. It is very black. Nasson was Dupont brand. Last edited by old31; 01-07-2021 at 06:12 PM.

01-07-2021, 08:29 PM	#32
Fortunateson Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 511	Re: Black single stage paint. I love Centari. My first paint job with a small 2hp compressor using a gun metal gray metallic turned out incredible. One tiny run but a razor blade took care of that. A light polishing, which wasn't recommended and the car looked great. My nephew who is a boy man asked me who/where I got it painted...he sure was surprised. Just finished using PPG shop line and wasn't impressed. I've seen a lot of cars done with Delfleet and they all looked great in single stage. And the paint chips for selection are about 2"x3" and there are a LOT of them so I'm sure you could find something. Up here Delfleet all in price is about $275 CDN so very reasonable.

01-09-2021, 10:18 AM	#35
Scott52 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2020 Posts: 146	Re: Black single stage paint. I am not a paint expert at all. My 1956 Chevrolet (I also have a 52 Ford and a Dodge power wagon) was painted single stage Black and Ivoryt 2 tone and the painter used PPG/Omni 9700. I like the more "dull" appearance of the single stage for original looking cars. It's been 10 years and the paint looks great.