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Old 11-08-2011, 09:18 PM   #41
andyg
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Default Re: At my wits end, with this no-start problem!

Make sure POSITIVE side of battery is hooked to ground.

Throw away any new Champion spark plugs because they are not what they used to be. I run Autolites with much better results. I have used brand new Champions that were gapped correctly and run pourly.
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Old 11-08-2011, 10:01 PM   #42
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Default Re: At my wits end, with this no-start problem!

How about the distributor? is it turning as you crank? just another thought!
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Old 11-08-2011, 10:53 PM   #43
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Default Re: At my wits end, with this no-start problem!

also check your wire connections on the ignition switch, my nut came loose and the contact was poor and had harldy any spark but a little blue one the truck ran withe the throutle all the way open withe choke all the way pulled and it was still barley running
John
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Old 11-09-2011, 12:01 PM   #44
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Default Re: At my wits end, with this no-start problem!

When I first got my '31 Tudor six years ago, experienced the same issues. After having gone through the entire ignition and carburetion systems,
turned out, mice had built a housing development in the muffler, would move and plug up the exhaust when trying to start the engine.
This car had been sitting in a garage since '53.
Took the muffler off, turned it on end, shook out ten lbs. of lint,grass, mouse turds, and dead mice.
Reinstalled, cars still running today.

Worth a look.
Ken
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Old 11-09-2011, 12:11 PM   #45
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Default Re: At my wits end, with this no-start problem!

For Grins and giggles, check your terminal box for shorting into the firewall. The repro units have the terminal screw head "proud" of the back and can wear through the paint. This can be intermittent which can lead to one pull out his hair.

Good luck,
GW
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Old 11-09-2011, 03:31 PM   #46
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Default Re: At my wits end, with this no-start problem!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by gweilbaker View Post
For Grins and giggles, check your terminal box for shorting into the firewall. The repro units have the terminal screw head "proud" of the back and can wear through the paint. This can be intermittent which can lead to one pull out his hair.

Good luck,
GW
If this happens, can I just place a piece of rubber against the back of the terminal box/glue it to the firewall to prevent the short? Would wood be better? A thin piece?
Thanks!
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Old 11-09-2011, 04:21 PM   #47
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Default Re: At my wits end, with this no-start problem!

If any want to throw away your new Champion 3X plugs send them to me as they work best of any I have used in my car.
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Old 11-09-2011, 04:45 PM   #48
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Default Re: At my wits end, with this no-start problem!

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If this happens, can I just place a piece of rubber against the back of the terminal box/glue it to the firewall to prevent the short? Would wood be better? A thin piece?
Thanks!
I can't imagine that that wouldn't work. The first case I heard of this problem for claimed the short occured when the firewall got hot and thermal expansion somehow caused the short. Sounded pretty implausible to me, but there it was. Grinding down the bolt heads was recommended, as I recall.

I would think an easy test for the problem--if you can get the car running--would be to just push the wingnuts toward the firewall. If they're close to shorting out, that should bring them in contact and kill the motor.

Steve
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Old 11-09-2011, 10:09 PM   #49
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Default Re: At my wits end, with this no-start problem!

IS IT RUNNING YET?? Keep us posted lots of suggestions out there?!!!
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Old 11-10-2011, 12:28 PM   #50
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Default Re: At my wits end, with this no-start problem!

I've read all of the latest suggestions posted in the last day, and, while they're all good suggestions, unfortunately they're also things I'd already checked and/or tried.

I did, however, read an interesting tidbit in my "Model A Miseries and Cures" book. It said that occasionally someone will put a Model B timing gear cover on a Model A engine... and that the timing will be off because the location of the timing pin hole differs between the two covers.

Interestingly, when I first got this car, it was clear to me that someone had removed the timing gear cover at some point, for some reason... because it had been repainted a regular green (not Ford Green) color, and then reinstalled onto the front of the engine. So, I started wondering if perhaps my car fit the description of the same problem I'd read in the book.

Using the book's suggestion as a guide, I did check the position of the timing pin hole and determined that it is indeed the correct Model A cover. Besides that, I've always been visually-checking that the #1 piston is at TDC when setting the timing... and when it is at TDC, the timing pin correctly drops into the notch in the timing gear. I therefore don't think this has anything to do with the problem, especially since it ran for a few days using the same timing and checking methods before...
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Old 11-10-2011, 02:37 PM   #51
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Default Re: At my wits end, with this no-start problem!

I'm thinking that with the original parts reinstalled you have the logical starting point for diagnosis. Using the spark plug spark test first then trouble shooting from there. Dave and Ralph had a shot, maybe we could look again when you are ready. I'm just over the hill. Bob
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Old 11-10-2011, 07:02 PM   #52
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Default Re: At my wits end, with this no-start problem!

Hi Bob,

Thanks for the offer; I see you're not too far-away in Brentwood. Cool.

FYI, I've seen in a couple of places that people are recommending the placing of a ground cable going from where the positive-post cable connects to the frame... and the other end going to the transmission housing. While I've got plenty of grounding straps (as shared in my previous posts), I have not tried this yet. I may give it a shot, once I get the car all back to nearly-stock again....
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Old 11-10-2011, 07:14 PM   #53
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Default Re: At my wits end, with this no-start problem!

Keep me in the loop. Bob
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Old 11-10-2011, 10:23 PM   #54
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Red face Re: At my wits end, with this no-start problem!

Interesting problem, I read all posts and thought I would add my 2 cents. I had a similar problem when I started working on an old A that did run but I figured it needed new points, condensor, rotor, and plugs. After making a wholesale change (bad idea) the A now would not run. Come to find out I had 6 volts at points but when the points were closed I did not have consistent 6 volts through the points to ground. The new points had a very weak spring and were not making good enough contact. I installed the old points and all was fine. I bought a new set of points from NAPA auto parts and the spring was 20 times stronger then what I has bought from a Model A supplier. I contacted the supplier but they blew it off like I was crazy. Live and learn. Good luck.
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Old 11-12-2011, 05:57 PM   #55
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Default Re: At my wits end, with this no-start problem!

Bob: A better test for continuity is with a volt meter with the ignition on read each wire with the VM in parallel to the to the wire in question. If you read any voltage the wire or connections are bad. A place to start would be with your battery connections.
With the new ignition switch on check for voltage across the terminals if there is a voltage reading it is a bad switch. Also with the points closed read the continuity between the switch contact in the distrib and ground. I don't recall you saying that you replaced your coil. If you did make sure it does not have an internal resistor.
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Old 11-18-2011, 01:16 PM   #56
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Default Re: At my wits end, with this no-start problem!

The latest is that I returned the entire ignition system components and wiring back to stock, with the exception of using "modern" points. I also then tried bypassing the ignition switch as recently suggested, all still with negative results.

Anybody wanna buy a '31 Coupe? I'm putting it up for sale...
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Old 11-18-2011, 01:42 PM   #57
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Default Re: At my wits end, with this no-start problem!

I would not give up. There is probably a Model "A" club close to you. I would load it on a trailer with all of your extra parts and take it to their next gathering. Tell them you know what is wrong. Then offer a $100 to the guy that gets it running. I bet it will be running in no time. I would would take a fresh can of gasoline because that would probably be one idea of water in the gas. Take all of the tools along that you have been using like wrenches , volt meter, plugs, condensers, polarity checker,jumper wires, compression gauge, carburetor cleaner, wire brush, carburetor tools etc.

You might want to call the president of the club so they know you are coming and can schedule a couple of hours.
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Old 11-18-2011, 01:43 PM   #58
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Default Re: At my wits end, with this no-start problem!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobs29ModelA View Post
The latest is that I returned the entire ignition system components and wiring back to stock, with the exception of using "modern" points. I also then tried bypassing the ignition switch as recently suggested, all still with negative results.

Anybody wanna buy a '31 Coupe? I'm putting it up for sale...
Maybe one last thing you may try. My coupe died on me awhile back and I could not find anything wrong. So I thought I would try sanding the points. So I closed them, put some sand paper between them, pulled it back and forth a few times. After putting things back together, tried it and away it went. I know this is simple but one more little thing that may work.

Good luck-there has to be some answer to you problem.
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Old 11-18-2011, 02:14 PM   #59
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Default Re: At my wits end, with this no-start problem!

Bob,
Don't give up. There is a Mafca Chapter right in Livermore. The contact person is listed as Nelda McArthur it doesn't give a phone number but does give this email address: [email protected] I would send them an email asking them for help and request that they contact you.
I have a pickup that drove me nuts for four years. It would run, but had no power. I could barely get it to 20 mph on a level street. Like you, I tried everything I could think of. I had several older model a guys trying to help me. I threatened to sell it several times.
This summer I swore I would fix it or get rid of it. I started changing parts. To make a long story short, it turned out to be spark plugs that were fouled by a carb that was running way too rich.
The answer is there, you just haven't found it yet. It will be so worth it when you do. Good Luck,
Jon
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Old 11-18-2011, 02:31 PM   #60
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Default Re: At my wits end, with this no-start problem!

Bob,

I've read through every post in this thread so thatI don't make a bunch of useless suggestions, but the one thing I don't recall you mentioning is a basic compression check. Many years ago I attended an AC Delco training school for the (then) new EFI systems, and the one thing I remember my instructor saying is that all internal combustion motors have one thing in common. To run they have to "suck, squeeze, bang and puke", and they have to do all of the above in the proper timing.

If I were in your shoes, the first thing I would do is verify whether or not the engine is doing the four basic functions above, regardless of whether it's doing them at the right times.

1) Hold your hand over the throat of the carb to be sure it's attempting to draw air in.

2) Run a compression check, or at the very least crank it over while holding your hand over each plug hole respectively to be sure of compression.

3) Check for spark (which I'm pretty sure you have covered)

4) Make sure there's no abnormal obstructions in the exhaust

Once you can be sure that the engine is capable of getting air/fuel in, compressing it, combusting it and getting rid of the spent gases then you can move on to making sure that everything is happening in the right order and in proper timing.

If you suspect a fuel problem (which doesn't seem too likely) then shoot it with ether while cranking.

From the sound of things it looks like you have everything the engine needs to run, which would make me think that something must be happening at the wrong time.

Keep us posted!
Deron
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