The Ford Barn

Bobs29ModelA · 09-08-2011, 03:22 AM

I've just installed a Transpark Universal pointless ignition system in my '31 Ford Model A.

The installation instructions were easy to follow, and after triple-checking all connections, I now find that I am able to crank the engine, but no matter what I do, I still cannot get the engine to actually start, much less run.

I've gone back 3 times and retraced my wiring and connections, and I still believe everything is correct. I've also found TDC (on #1 cylinder) and verified that the rotor's position is in the proper location at TDC. I also followed their test procedures and have confirmed that the coil IS providing a spark at all four cylinders as needed. Yet, no matter what I do, the engine only cranks but will not start.

Has anyone ever installed one of these systems, and/or, had problems with getting it to work properly?

1931 flamingo · 09-08-2011, 06:59 PM

Have you tried contacting who you bought it from or the manufacturer??
Paul in CT

glenn in camino · 09-08-2011, 07:22 PM

I've had various problems with an electronic ignition distributor. I reciently replaced it with the stock system and the car runs better than ever.

Bobs29ModelA · 09-09-2011, 01:48 AM

I'm going to check tomorrow with the manufacturer, for any advice they might be able to give. However, all my testing (including some I did again tonight) shows that their product is working just fine, and that the spark was being delivered to the cylinders... yet, its still not even trying to start.

Tom Wesenberg · 09-09-2011, 02:30 AM

If the ignition circuit is delivering spark to each cylinder at top dead center on COMPRESSION, then that means the camshaft and gears are OK, and I'd be looking for a fuel problem. If you pull the choke knob for a couple compression strokes, you should see some fuel dripping from the carb.

For the engine to fire you need compression, fuel, and spark at the RIGHT time.

Mike V. Florida · 09-09-2011, 02:34 AM

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Try some starter spray to see if it is a fuel problem.

Did you ever get the car to run with the stock system?

Jim/GA · 09-09-2011, 03:22 AM

Is the car 6 volts or 12? I have heard of weak 6 volt batteries, under the load of cranking an engine, not putting out enough voltage to produce a spark with those electronic ignition boxes.

With the symptoms you describe, your "cam" and rotor may be 180 degrees out, and your spark is happening at TDC of the exhaust stroke, not the compression stroke.

My dad had a similar problem once with a '53 Olds after an engine rebuild. He discovered that he forgot to hook the throttle linkage back up to the carb. It is often the simplest of things that trip us up. Do you put the rotor back inside the distributor? Turn the fuel valve back on? Sure you have fuel?

I had my needle valve up inside the carb "glue itself shut" once when fuel dried on it. Carb cleaner spray was required to free it; tapping with a screwdriver handle would not do it.

Good luck with it.

Jim/TX

PS - I took the electronic ignition off my car and went back to points (modern style)

Jim/GA · 09-09-2011, 03:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

Try some starter spray to see if it is a fuel problem.

Did you ever get the car to run with the stock system?

Probably not.

See this thread:
http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46381

Engine died and electronic ignition was put in...

mrtexas · 09-09-2011, 08:39 AM

You need help. Call the local Model A club or get the Les Andrews book Vol 1. Try the simple electronic ignition made by Pertronix.

Logan · 09-09-2011, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrtexas

You need help. Call the local Model A club or get the Les Andrews book Vol 1. Try the simple electronic ignition made by Pertronix.

FS ignitions makes the best kit around, and its super easy to install. And they will stand behind their product.

Larry Seemann · 09-09-2011, 05:24 PM

How did you find TDC? Did you use the timing pin? How did you verify the proper rotor position? Did you read how to do it in a book?
There is a book out there, and I'm not positive which book it is, that accurately describes how to use the timing pin and then goes on to describe setting the rotor by positioning it "opposite" of #1. More that one person reading that pointed the rotor at #4, which is opposite of #1. I just witnessed that again the other day.

Bobs29ModelA · 09-11-2011, 03:06 AM

Yes, I used the timing pin to locate TDC on cylinder #1. And, yep, I've seen that passage in both the Les Andrews book and the Transpark installation instructions, and I can see why someone might become confused and point it "opposite" of the #1 contact.

As of yesterday, I was able to start it but the only way to keep it running is to keep the choke handle mostly pulled out; if you let it go in at all, the revs start dropping and it backfires. I have a new carburetor coming in on Monday, so hopefully that will be a bit of help, as the original one is a dirty, leaky mess. Even though this carb was in there before, and the engine ran with both the old carb and antiquated points, the problems I've been having have only happened with the electronic conversion kit. And, the manufacturer's rep has only been able to tell me to make sure that the gap is set to .003" (which it is now). Anyway, hopefully the new carburetor will be of some help in all this...

mrtexas · 09-11-2011, 07:26 AM

I'd suggest putting a timing light on it as I'd suspect timing if it is backfiring.

Milton · 09-11-2011, 03:01 PM

Sounds like a fuel delivery problem to me.

Bobs29ModelA · 10-06-2011, 05:24 PM

Here's the interesting thing... since my last post, I installed a brand-new carburetor, to no avail. Tried two more carbs on there, to no avail. I then decided to convert it all back to the original points-style configuration, but using the more "modern" points system offered by Nu-Rex. I'd also installed a 6-volt alternator in there, along with a new ignition switch. Rather than use the old-fashioned armored-cable-with-spring-loaded-contact connection (another trouble spot), I simply ran a heavy wire from the ignition switch down through the distributor base and connected it directly to the points. I now had a confirmed 6-VDC to the points, and the car started-up immediately... as long as you pulled the choke (regardless of whether the engine was hot or cold).

I ran it for a week this way, even making its first 30-mile trip, before it started running lousy again and then finally stopped running. I once again find myself with an engine that won't even start, even though there's plenty of juice and spark everywhere there should be... and I've set (and re-set) the timing to specs again and again... sheesh!

Ned · 10-06-2011, 05:33 PM

Been running my 29 for 50 years with the old fashioned igniton, carb, generator, armored cable, 6 volt battery, etc. Guess I never knew I needed to get rid of all that stuff to get to run right.

Bobs29ModelA · 10-06-2011, 05:44 PM

It is (or, rather, "was") running just fine (for a week) on 6-volts, with standard points... before it once again stopped running on me! Not sure how it can start and run just fine like that, then go back to being my "no start" problem-child... but, I agree with you, it should be running fine as gawd and nature intended... just like it was first built.

1931 flamingo · 10-06-2011, 06:28 PM

Ck the ignition switch. Went to the bank tonite, the girls oohed and aweed, then I went out to start, wouldn't, lights, signals, etc, step on starter, nothing. Got two guys coming out of the packy to push me, started. Drove home, started normal 4 times in driveway, switch coming out in the am.
Paul in CT

Tom Wesenberg · 10-07-2011, 05:05 AM

I'm with Ned on this. I find the original ignition parts to be the most reliable, and easiest to work on.

Do the easiest checks first to confirm if it's fuel, or spark related. Turn the key on, tranny in nuetral, hold the coil wire 1/4" from a head nut, then push the starter switch and look for a good blue spark. If you have a good spark, then check for fuel flow. Fuel should be dripping from the carb intake if you pull the choke while cranking through a couple compression strokes.

Since you said it was running good for a week, then wouldn't start, you mght find an obstruction in the fuel line or gas tank.

Jason in TX · 10-07-2011, 09:10 AM

Did you press the little magnetic collar onto the cam up-side-down? The magnets sound like they aren't working at the right time.

JoeOrangejuice · 05-11-2020, 04:56 PM

Here it is ten years later, 2020, and I found your post about the Transpark Ignition, Do you still have it in? I will copy and paste my commentary. I think the outfit that sold it to me was having complaints about it as he was short tempered with me the several times I phoned. Plus, they no longer sell the product.

I have had a “Transpark Universal Model “A” Ford Ignition” I bought the ignition ignition in my Model A in 2010. I am sure not knocking it because before installing the Transpark ignition, starting the car was a chore, now ZOOM! However, I have had some questions about it from the get-go. I had to file down the bump on the top of the rotor quite a lot to get the cap to be able to go on. Occasionally, I hear a tap tap tap from inside the distributor as the rotor spins. It has been about 2,000 easy miles and it starts great and runs very well. I was reading a Les Andrews book about Ignition Timing and he mentions checking the gaps between the tip of the rotor and the distributor body contact points. I did this and noticed that the tip of the rotor is riding a bit high and not spinning squarely past the distributor body contact points about 3/4 of the tip passes over the upper part of the contact points. I have made a drawing to show what I mean. Here is a question: Does the tip of your rotor spin squarely past the contact points or does it ride high like mine? I see that nu-Rex no longer sells this product and I am interested in other people's experiences with their electronic ignitions. Again, I am not knocking the product.

Chuck Sea/Tac · 05-11-2020, 05:10 PM

It would be better if the rotor was square on the body contacts, but obviously it’s been working satisfactorily. You’re drawing didn’t show up by the way. I’d be concerned with the intermittent clicking noise in the distributor. Is your body a tight fit on the distributor? A loose fit can cause unequal gaps on the rotor to body, plus the rotor could be ticking one of the body studs.

barkleydave · 05-12-2020, 09:14 AM

I have several Pertronix Ignitors (FS ignitions) in stock dist. I have one running perfectly for the past 20 years have not had to touch it...

Some folks do not like them and that is their choice of course. I have installed several in other vehicles. The key is a clean 6 or 12 volts to the ignitor. I run a seperate dedicated circuit fused directly to the battery. Do not run through any other curcuit. Run to switch. Follow the instructions and make sure you have a clean seperate ground wire. Modules do not like voltage spikes from generators or alternators.

stevemclark · 05-12-2020, 10:04 AM

Try your fuel flow.Turn gas off then take the plug out of the fuel bowl to drain what ever is in there into a clear container of at least 8 oz,look at it and see if it all gas and not rust or water or anything but gas. This next part is from scriptures 2-10 to 2-11 , " Model A ford Troubleshooting & Diagnostics" by Les Andrews.With a larger container under the gas line removed from the carburetor turn the gas on and see how fast it flows out It should flow out 2 or 3 inches from the line.Low flow can come from restricted/clogged; line, shut off valve,fuel line,sediment bowl or a bad vent in the gas cap causing a vacuum lock.

09-08-2011, 06:59 PM	#2
1931 flamingo Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: new britain,ct 06052 Posts: 9,390	Re: TRANSPARK UNIVERSAL Ignition System problems Have you tried contacting who you bought it from or the manufacturer?? Paul in CT

09-08-2011, 07:22 PM	#3
glenn in camino Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Camino, CA. Posts: 3,086	Re: TRANSPARK UNIVERSAL Ignition System problems I've had various problems with an electronic ignition distributor. I reciently replaced it with the stock system and the car runs better than ever.

09-09-2011, 02:30 AM	#5
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: TRANSPARK UNIVERSAL Ignition System problems If the ignition circuit is delivering spark to each cylinder at top dead center on COMPRESSION, then that means the camshaft and gears are OK, and I'd be looking for a fuel problem. If you pull the choke knob for a couple compression strokes, you should see some fuel dripping from the carb. For the engine to fire you need compression, fuel, and spark at the RIGHT time.

09-09-2011, 02:34 AM	#6
Mike V. Florida Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South Florida Posts: 14,054	Re: TRANSPARK UNIVERSAL Ignition System problems Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Try some starter spray to see if it is a fuel problem. Did you ever get the car to run with the stock system? __________________ What's right about America is that although we have a mess of problems, we have great capacity - intellect and resources - to do some thing about them. - Henry Ford II

09-09-2011, 03:22 AM	#7
Jim/GA Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Young Harris, GA Posts: 1,821	Re: TRANSPARK UNIVERSAL Ignition System problems Is the car 6 volts or 12? I have heard of weak 6 volt batteries, under the load of cranking an engine, not putting out enough voltage to produce a spark with those electronic ignition boxes. With the symptoms you describe, your "cam" and rotor may be 180 degrees out, and your spark is happening at TDC of the exhaust stroke, not the compression stroke. My dad had a similar problem once with a '53 Olds after an engine rebuild. He discovered that he forgot to hook the throttle linkage back up to the carb. It is often the simplest of things that trip us up. Do you put the rotor back inside the distributor? Turn the fuel valve back on? Sure you have fuel? I had my needle valve up inside the carb "glue itself shut" once when fuel dried on it. Carb cleaner spray was required to free it; tapping with a screwdriver handle would not do it. Good luck with it. Jim/TX PS - I took the electronic ignition off my car and went back to points (modern style) __________________ Jim Cannon Former MAFCA Technical Director "Have a Model A day!"

09-08-2011, 03:22 AM	#1
Bobs29ModelA Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Livermore, CA Posts: 124	Re: TRANSPARK UNIVERSAL Ignition System problems I've just installed a Transpark Universal pointless ignition system in my '31 Ford Model A. The installation instructions were easy to follow, and after triple-checking all connections, I now find that I am able to crank the engine, but no matter what I do, I still cannot get the engine to actually start, much less run. I've gone back 3 times and retraced my wiring and connections, and I still believe everything is correct. I've also found TDC (on #1 cylinder) and verified that the rotor's position is in the proper location at TDC. I also followed their test procedures and have confirmed that the coil IS providing a spark at all four cylinders as needed. Yet, no matter what I do, the engine only cranks but will not start. Has anyone ever installed one of these systems, and/or, had problems with getting it to work properly?

09-09-2011, 01:48 AM	#4
Bobs29ModelA Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Livermore, CA Posts: 124	Re: TRANSPARK UNIVERSAL Ignition System problems I'm going to check tomorrow with the manufacturer, for any advice they might be able to give. However, all my testing (including some I did again tonight) shows that their product is working just fine, and that the spark was being delivered to the cylinders... yet, its still not even trying to start.

09-09-2011, 08:39 AM	#9
mrtexas Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Sugar Land, TX Posts: 4,395	Re: TRANSPARK UNIVERSAL Ignition System problems You need help. Call the local Model A club or get the Les Andrews book Vol 1. Try the simple electronic ignition made by Pertronix.

09-09-2011, 05:24 PM	#11
Larry Seemann Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Spokane, WA. Posts: 496	Re: TRANSPARK UNIVERSAL Ignition System problems How did you find TDC? Did you use the timing pin? How did you verify the proper rotor position? Did you read how to do it in a book? There is a book out there, and I'm not positive which book it is, that accurately describes how to use the timing pin and then goes on to describe setting the rotor by positioning it "opposite" of #1. More that one person reading that pointed the rotor at #4, which is opposite of #1. I just witnessed that again the other day. __________________ Larry Seemann

09-11-2011, 03:06 AM	#12
Bobs29ModelA Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Livermore, CA Posts: 124	Re: TRANSPARK UNIVERSAL Ignition System problems Yes, I used the timing pin to locate TDC on cylinder #1. And, yep, I've seen that passage in both the Les Andrews book and the Transpark installation instructions, and I can see why someone might become confused and point it "opposite" of the #1 contact. As of yesterday, I was able to start it but the only way to keep it running is to keep the choke handle mostly pulled out; if you let it go in at all, the revs start dropping and it backfires. I have a new carburetor coming in on Monday, so hopefully that will be a bit of help, as the original one is a dirty, leaky mess. Even though this carb was in there before, and the engine ran with both the old carb and antiquated points, the problems I've been having have only happened with the electronic conversion kit. And, the manufacturer's rep has only been able to tell me to make sure that the gap is set to .003" (which it is now). Anyway, hopefully the new carburetor will be of some help in all this...

09-11-2011, 07:26 AM	#13
mrtexas Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Sugar Land, TX Posts: 4,395	Re: TRANSPARK UNIVERSAL Ignition System problems I'd suggest putting a timing light on it as I'd suspect timing if it is backfiring.

09-11-2011, 03:01 PM	#14
Milton Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 837	Re: TRANSPARK UNIVERSAL Ignition System problems Sounds like a fuel delivery problem to me.

10-06-2011, 05:24 PM	#15
Bobs29ModelA Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Livermore, CA Posts: 124	Re: TRANSPARK UNIVERSAL Ignition System problems Here's the interesting thing... since my last post, I installed a brand-new carburetor, to no avail. Tried two more carbs on there, to no avail. I then decided to convert it all back to the original points-style configuration, but using the more "modern" points system offered by Nu-Rex. I'd also installed a 6-volt alternator in there, along with a new ignition switch. Rather than use the old-fashioned armored-cable-with-spring-loaded-contact connection (another trouble spot), I simply ran a heavy wire from the ignition switch down through the distributor base and connected it directly to the points. I now had a confirmed 6-VDC to the points, and the car started-up immediately... as long as you pulled the choke (regardless of whether the engine was hot or cold). I ran it for a week this way, even making its first 30-mile trip, before it started running lousy again and then finally stopped running. I once again find myself with an engine that won't even start, even though there's plenty of juice and spark everywhere there should be... and I've set (and re-set) the timing to specs again and again... sheesh!

10-06-2011, 05:33 PM	#16
Ned Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Maryland Posts: 51	Re: TRANSPARK UNIVERSAL Ignition System problems Been running my 29 for 50 years with the old fashioned igniton, carb, generator, armored cable, 6 volt battery, etc. Guess I never knew I needed to get rid of all that stuff to get to run right.

10-06-2011, 05:44 PM	#17
Bobs29ModelA Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Livermore, CA Posts: 124	Re: TRANSPARK UNIVERSAL Ignition System problems It is (or, rather, "was") running just fine (for a week) on 6-volts, with standard points... before it once again stopped running on me! Not sure how it can start and run just fine like that, then go back to being my "no start" problem-child... but, I agree with you, it should be running fine as gawd and nature intended... just like it was first built.

10-06-2011, 06:28 PM	#18
1931 flamingo Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: new britain,ct 06052 Posts: 9,390	Re: TRANSPARK UNIVERSAL Ignition System problems Ck the ignition switch. Went to the bank tonite, the girls oohed and aweed, then I went out to start, wouldn't, lights, signals, etc, step on starter, nothing. Got two guys coming out of the packy to push me, started. Drove home, started normal 4 times in driveway, switch coming out in the am. Paul in CT

10-07-2011, 05:05 AM	#19
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: TRANSPARK UNIVERSAL Ignition System problems I'm with Ned on this. I find the original ignition parts to be the most reliable, and easiest to work on. Do the easiest checks first to confirm if it's fuel, or spark related. Turn the key on, tranny in nuetral, hold the coil wire 1/4" from a head nut, then push the starter switch and look for a good blue spark. If you have a good spark, then check for fuel flow. Fuel should be dripping from the carb intake if you pull the choke while cranking through a couple compression strokes. Since you said it was running good for a week, then wouldn't start, you mght find an obstruction in the fuel line or gas tank.

10-07-2011, 09:10 AM	#20
Jason in TX Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: ⓉⒺXⒶⓈ Posts: 2,047	Re: TRANSPARK UNIVERSAL Ignition System problems Did you press the little magnetic collar onto the cam up-side-down? The magnets sound like they aren't working at the right time. __________________ -------------- Drive it like you know how to fix it! DMAFC / OILERS CC-MC

05-11-2020, 04:56 PM	#21
JoeOrangejuice Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2020 Posts: 5	Re: TRANSPARK UNIVERSAL Ignition System problems Here it is ten years later, 2020, and I found your post about the Transpark Ignition, Do you still have it in? I will copy and paste my commentary. I think the outfit that sold it to me was having complaints about it as he was short tempered with me the several times I phoned. Plus, they no longer sell the product. I have had a “Transpark Universal Model “A” Ford Ignition” I bought the ignition ignition in my Model A in 2010. I am sure not knocking it because before installing the Transpark ignition, starting the car was a chore, now ZOOM! However, I have had some questions about it from the get-go. I had to file down the bump on the top of the rotor quite a lot to get the cap to be able to go on. Occasionally, I hear a tap tap tap from inside the distributor as the rotor spins. It has been about 2,000 easy miles and it starts great and runs very well. I was reading a Les Andrews book about Ignition Timing and he mentions checking the gaps between the tip of the rotor and the distributor body contact points. I did this and noticed that the tip of the rotor is riding a bit high and not spinning squarely past the distributor body contact points about 3/4 of the tip passes over the upper part of the contact points. I have made a drawing to show what I mean. Here is a question: Does the tip of your rotor spin squarely past the contact points or does it ride high like mine? I see that nu-Rex no longer sells this product and I am interested in other people's experiences with their electronic ignitions. Again, I am not knocking the product.

05-11-2020, 05:10 PM	#22
Chuck Sea/Tac Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Between Seattle & Tacoma Posts: 2,354	Re: TRANSPARK UNIVERSAL Ignition System problems It would be better if the rotor was square on the body contacts, but obviously it’s been working satisfactorily. You’re drawing didn’t show up by the way. I’d be concerned with the intermittent clicking noise in the distributor. Is your body a tight fit on the distributor? A loose fit can cause unequal gaps on the rotor to body, plus the rotor could be ticking one of the body studs.

05-12-2020, 09:14 AM	#23
barkleydave Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Kentucky Posts: 502	Re: TRANSPARK UNIVERSAL Ignition System problems I have several Pertronix Ignitors (FS ignitions) in stock dist. I have one running perfectly for the past 20 years have not had to touch it... Some folks do not like them and that is their choice of course. I have installed several in other vehicles. The key is a clean 6 or 12 volts to the ignitor. I run a seperate dedicated circuit fused directly to the battery. Do not run through any other curcuit. Run to switch. Follow the instructions and make sure you have a clean seperate ground wire. Modules do not like voltage spikes from generators or alternators.

05-12-2020, 10:04 AM	#24
stevemclark Member Join Date: Oct 2019 Location: Central Shenandoah Valley,Waynesboro,Va. Posts: 93	Re: TRANSPARK UNIVERSAL Ignition System problems Try your fuel flow.Turn gas off then take the plug out of the fuel bowl to drain what ever is in there into a clear container of at least 8 oz,look at it and see if it all gas and not rust or water or anything but gas. This next part is from scriptures 2-10 to 2-11 , " Model A ford Troubleshooting & Diagnostics" by Les Andrews.With a larger container under the gas line removed from the carburetor turn the gas on and see how fast it flows out It should flow out 2 or 3 inches from the line.Low flow can come from restricted/clogged; line, shut off valve,fuel line,sediment bowl or a bad vent in the gas cap causing a vacuum lock.