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Old 10-29-2020, 12:07 PM   #1
Ordsgt
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Default Brake kit

I am new to model As and have a 1930 Tudor. I am redoing the brakes with new hubs, bearings and drums. Is it worth the cost and labor to put in the " Flathead Ted" brake kit?


Thanks
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Old 11-11-2020, 08:28 PM   #2
vernlee
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Default Re: Brake kit

Probably
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Old 11-11-2020, 09:11 PM   #3
California Travieso
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Default Re: Brake kit

People in previous threads have suggested that it is wise to try them on the front brakes first.

David Serrano
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Old 11-12-2020, 07:04 AM   #4
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Default Re: Brake kit

If you look at the video that Ted made of his car doing a full lock stop you will see three versions. The first two show the rear wheels only locking up while the last one shows all four locking up. Although there is no comment in the video, it appears that, for the last test, the rear brakes are backed off to allow more braking on the front.



The article I read from Model A Times said to leave the rear rods off at first to test the front brakes only. Most of the stopping comes from the front brakes as momentum will put more vertical downward force on the front tires.



I have new brakes on the car I just bought and have received the kit. I am planning on installing them today and will report back to the group when I get a chance to drive the car (after the rain quits). All that I have read says that the brakes must be in as new condition before installing the kit.



Here are some references:


http://www.ocmafc.com/techarticles/BrakeFloaters.pdf
http://www.ocmafc.com/techarticles/BrakeFloaters-2.pdf
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A is for apple, green as the sky.
Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die.
Forget the brakes, they really don't work.
The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk.
My car grows red hair, and flies through the air.
Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.
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Old 11-12-2020, 07:35 AM   #5
Bob Bidonde
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Default Re: Brake kit

I have Flathead Ted's brakes, and they are much much better than the stock brakes. Put Flathead Ted's brakes on all 4 wheels. The difference over the OEM brakes is that Flathead Ted's brakes give the brake shoes the freedom of motion to centralize in the drums, so the brake lining makes full contact. Don't cut corners to save a few bucks. Make your brakes the best they can be!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 11-12-2020, 09:34 AM   #6
Jack Shaft
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When fitting the kit make sure the brake adjusting pins are free of nicks and burs and slide easy in the housing,then grease them.On the fronts its critical that the roller pins and cotters don't hit the backing plate.Once fitted they work great,as close as you can get to a 'self energizing' bendix stye brake as you can get, the brakes bias to the front as in a modern car,on hard application the nose dips.. unlike the stock centered system which is bias rear,dragging the car to a stop
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Old 11-17-2020, 05:08 PM   #7
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Default Re: Brake kit

Update:



I just finished installing the brake kit, the Flathead Ted kit, and doing the initial road tests and adjustments. It took a lot longer than I figured because of other things on my plate. I figure 8 hours actual installation time.



The brake shoes in the front are new but the back shoes have had some wear. The main difficulty was getting the hubs off the rear axle. They were glued on. It took a 4-foot wrench on the puller and my heat gun set at 1,200 F. I had to add split ring lock washers for the new wedge anchor bolts in the front because they were too long for the cotter pins to fit in the castle nut slots. Otherwise everything went together well.



The 5/8-18 tap is absolutely necessary. Ford must have had a different specification for their 5/8-18 tap. The new adjusters will not fit without tapping.



Adjustment is critical. It takes a few miles of gentle use of the brakes before they are operating properly. The instructions say to lock them up to see which front brake is pulling more. I fount the temperature method works better. The cooler brakes are not working as hard as the hotter ones. The rear brakes will be cooler because most of the braking will be on the front. The instructions say that they should be set up 60/40 front/back. I initially set the front adjusters about 45 degrees from lock and the backs about 180 degrees from lock. I have been adding in more rear brake action by turning in the adjusters there. It only takes a few degrees of adjustment to make a difference.



They work great. It is almost like having modern power brakes. The peddle pressure is about 1/3 that of stock brakes. The brakes start to work at about 1 inch deflection, as the instructions said they would. I can lock up the brakes without standing on them. I am very happy with the results. I think the shoe wear will be more uniform too. The rear shoes, which have been used for a while, are worn unevenly. The front brake shoes have not been used enough to see a wear difference.
__________________
A is for apple, green as the sky.
Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die.
Forget the brakes, they really don't work.
The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk.
My car grows red hair, and flies through the air.
Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.
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Old 11-17-2020, 06:20 PM   #8
Steve Rinaldo
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Default Re: Brake kit

Tried many times to this kit to work properly. After many posts ted corresponded with me personally. I never got them to work as well as the original set-up with the common floaters. Thats what I would do and save your money.
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Old 11-17-2020, 07:27 PM   #9
ryanheacox
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Default Re: Brake kit

I don't have any problem with the stock brakes. I can lock all 4 wheels up no problem. If I had wider tires with more of a contact patch I might think about it. In a stock car the tires are the weak link in the brake system.
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Old 11-17-2020, 09:22 PM   #10
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Default Re: Brake kit

After very recently having completely rebuilt front and rear stock brakes on my roadster, I can lock all 4 wheels easily if needed.

I replaced roller tracks, springs, rollers, clevis pins, brake rods and installed new cast iron drums on the rear. I ground sharp ridges on all adjusting wedges and cleaned and filed (as necessary) the movable wedges that ride on the adjusting wedge. I also replaced all wheel bearings and races.

My view is that stock brakes, if in good operating condition, are quite good.

Jim
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Old 12-11-2020, 12:11 AM   #11
Fred A
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Default Re: Brake kit

Looks like these guys are into locking their wheels up. Long steady use of A brakes can easily become another matter. I have both and drive each accordingly. I read the word proper as it relates to Model A brake restoration and maintenance. Assumption being that if you don't like stock brakes, yours are just not proper. Can't go anywhere with that logic. Luckily we can do as we want and there are admirers of the many Model A brake strategies. My most effective for the past sixty years has been the Zephyr/Bendix drum brakes with a single master cylinder. I have some tweaks and mods to make install and use more "normal" I go the same way with my 1940 cars, replacing the Lockheed/Ford brakes which are seldom my choice. Do it your way and drive safely. Good Luck: Fred A
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Old 12-11-2020, 09:38 AM   #12
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Default Re: Brake kit

I have been adjusting my brakes after installation of the Flathead Ted kit. I use an IR temperature sensor to check the temperature of the different brakes after a drive and make slight adjustments to get the temperature even, but a little hotter in front. This method works with stock brakes or modified brakes. I am still doing some minor tweaking. I learned this from the previous owner of my car.
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A is for apple, green as the sky.
Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die.
Forget the brakes, they really don't work.
The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk.
My car grows red hair, and flies through the air.
Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.
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Old 12-11-2020, 05:41 PM   #13
GeneBob
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Default Re: Brake kit

You will find this in every forum discussion about Ted's kit. Your brake system MUST be operating well before you add the kit. This kit will only exacerbate the problems in a weak system.
When I installed the kit, I did not correctly fit one end of the front brake roller centering plate. Either in the instructions or somewhere I saw a note about making sure there is clearance at this point on the plate. I could not get the brakes to adjust in any predictable way until I took that front brake apart and found that it was sticking between the shoe roller and the inside surface of the brake shoe.
I also rebuilt my cross shaft using the kit from Snyder's. That made a big improvement on the firmness of the pedal.
Again, this kit is not a silver bullet for a poorly adjusted system or a system with worn out parts. It definitely improved my brakes once I sorted out my problems.
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Old 12-16-2020, 03:10 PM   #14
jerry shook
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Default Re: Brake kit

It is always good to put Flat head teds on any Model A. I have them on two A work great.
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Old 01-05-2021, 10:29 PM   #15
kwisor
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Default Re: Brake kit

hello
I have a 30 tudor and getting ready to replace the brakes I have ordered the deluxe flat head ted kit new shoes new cast drums my question is, is it best to remove the backing plat from the car to do this . I have never done brakes on a model a before. right now when I brake it seems that the harder I apply the brakes the less it will stop
thanks for the help
kevin
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Old 01-06-2021, 02:02 AM   #16
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Default Re: Brake kit

The videos for the basic Flathead kit is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EjRe411l3M
The video for the deluxe kit is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcJ5LUbmro0
That's assuming everything else in the brakes are tickety-boo ...
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Old 01-06-2021, 06:34 AM   #17
BRENT in 10-uh-C
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Default Re: Brake kit

Quote:
Originally Posted by nkaminar View Post
Update:



I just finished installing the brake kit, the Flathead Ted kit, and doing the initial road tests and adjustments. It took a lot longer than I figured because of other things on my plate. I figure 8 hours actual installation time.



The brake shoes in the front are new but the back shoes have had some wear. The main difficulty was getting the hubs off the rear axle. They were glued on. It took a 4-foot wrench on the puller and my heat gun set at 1,200 F. I had to add split ring lock washers for the new wedge anchor bolts in the front because they were too long for the cotter pins to fit in the castle nut slots. Otherwise everything went together well.



The 5/8-18 tap is absolutely necessary. Ford must have had a different specification for their 5/8-18 tap. The new adjusters will not fit without tapping.



Adjustment is critical. It takes a few miles of gentle use of the brakes before they are operating properly. The instructions say to lock them up to see which front brake is pulling more. I fount the temperature method works better. The cooler brakes are not working as hard as the hotter ones. The rear brakes will be cooler because most of the braking will be on the front. The instructions say that they should be set up 60/40 front/back. I initially set the front adjusters about 45 degrees from lock and the backs about 180 degrees from lock. I have been adding in more rear brake action by turning in the adjusters there. It only takes a few degrees of adjustment to make a difference.



They work great. It is almost like having modern power brakes. The peddle pressure is about 1/3 that of stock brakes. The brakes start to work at about 1 inch deflection, as the instructions said they would. I can lock up the brakes without standing on them. I am very happy with the results. I think the shoe wear will be more uniform too. The rear shoes, which have been used for a while, are worn unevenly. The front brake shoes have not been used enough to see a wear difference.


Ford specified that the threads be 5/8 - 18 Class 2 threads. That is the most common thread used in industrial application. So if the adjusters do not fit, that is/was not the fault of Ford.


If the pedal pressure is about 1/3rd the pressure of stock brakes, could that be the result since you were instructed to remove 1/3rd of the brake springs?

.
.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg A-2011 Front Backing Plate Assembly4.jpg (64.2 KB, 38 views)
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Old 01-06-2021, 09:33 AM   #18
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Default Re: Brake kit

Ted's a heathen, he adapted Bendix's idea to a Ford design.. Some nerve figuring out self energizing brakes, hell he ain't even American. I was skeptical at first, I figured wear would be uneven and accelerated but after driving it that's acceptable.. I couldn't believe it when I jumped on mine after install, the nose of the car dipped.
Stands to reason, centrifugal engagement has been around for decades, Ford resisted it..Funny Bendix prevailed with Ford twice.. once with the starter drive, the other with self energizing brakes,both time's with Mr Ford still around,damn few folks can say that..
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Old 01-07-2021, 05:32 AM   #19
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>>hell he ain't even American

Ford knocked off most of the early auto technology from France and Germany.

I guess America was classed as a developing country back then, like China now ...
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Old 01-07-2021, 06:11 AM   #20
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Default Re: Brake kit

I completely rebuilt the brakes on my 30 Huckster. They worked great. Then I decided to install Ted's kit. The car stops just as good but has a different feel that I like a lot! I can't really describe it but it seems like you have a more precise brake pedal control. I am a big fan.
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