The Ford Barn

JSeery · 03-03-2019, 01:26 PM

The bellhousing adapter on the truck transmission is commonly referred to as a "Hogshead". The block looks like it was "pinned" to me, which is the correct way to do the repair.

gavinnz · 03-03-2019, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSeery

The bellhousing adapter on the truck transmission is commonly referred to as a "Hogshead". The block looks like it was "pinned" to me, which is the correct way to do the repair.

Cool, I thought it was pinned too when I looked harder... could be ok after all. Will a hogshead bolt to any earlier V8 car transmission?

JSeery · 03-03-2019, 06:42 PM

The hogshead is not needed to bolt the 59a era (or earlier) transmissions on. The bellhousing adapter is part of the transmission. Not sure this to correct on the car transmissions, I was thinking of the light pickup transmissions.

gavinnz · 03-03-2019, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSeery

The hogshead is not needed to bolt the 59a era (or earlier) transmissions on. The bellhousing adapter is part of the transmission.

My question is with the 8BA blocks I have will the hogshead adapter that was on one engine for the truck gearbox, also be able to be used with a normal three speed trans from the early cars?
I am learning as I go, to clarify my question....

A trans that was bolted to an early engine, with the bellhousing build into the block.... will that trans bolt to my hogs head and line up with the hole and the clutch??

JSeery · 03-03-2019, 07:07 PM

The hogshead will only work for specific transmissions (trucks). You need a ring type adapter I believe, they come in both cast and stamped steel. The later transmissions use a different bellhousing.

gavinnz · 03-03-2019, 07:21 PM

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Thanks! that's great info. That one on the right is what came with the car engine without a trans... well this is leading me back to maybe using my hogshead and my marine trans and paying to make adapters to the flywheel of the ford... will cost a bit in outside machining costs (my lathe can't spin the diameter of the flywheel) but might be less trouble than converting a Ford box I don't have to marine use in the end.... and I looking into the history of my Borg Warner Velvet drive trans and they were made is various forms right back into the 1950's so it would be OK to fit in the boat and be reasonably authentic....

There is more than one way to skin a cat.... and I know that for a fact!

Ol' Ron · 03-04-2019, 02:06 PM

There is a post by a fellow by the name of Erney I think that shows all the stock bell housings used on Flathead engines. In the roadster I use a hogs adapters to at T-% trans. THis way I can use a late 8BA style or early 59 style engine, with no clutch or adapter problems, just bolt them in.

gavinnz · 03-15-2019, 08:19 PM

Engines are finally in my workshop and slowly coming apart so see what I have...
The "truck engine" has two sleeve replaced and a crack between the cylinder and the valve on one cylinder. Plus it has had water inside the bottom end I am yet to look at.

The "car engine" has no sleeves, repaired cracks on one bank and one visable unrepaired crack between the valve and cylinder and into the cylinder on the other bank. It is still on it's standard bore. No water/rust in the bottom end so far.

The "car engine" is at this stage looking like the best to repair, one sleeve and valve seat and fix the one unfixed crack and an over bore.

More to come as I get to the bottom ends!

gavinnz · 03-15-2019, 08:33 PM

Also my Canadian blocks have single numbers case in a few places...
The truck engine has "3" cast is on the block top centre just next to where the bell housing bolts on... the car engine as a "4" cast in that spot and at least one other place....
Could that indicate 1953 and 1954??

gavinnz · 03-18-2019, 04:52 AM

The bottom end of the "car engine" seems pretty good, no water damage, bearings are buggered but you would expect that. The main bearing shells still have Ford Made in Canada on the backs so I think they could be originals? Would go with the standard bores.. one piston had been replaced at some time.

Still trying to get the oil pump and cam out. Oil pump is REAL well stuck! Heat will be the next thing to try....

gavinnz · 03-19-2019, 05:14 AM

Oil pump out after some heat and leverage! Cam out. So the block is stripped except for the oil pump idler gear I cant get at with it on the engine stand.

Looks like two cracks to be repaired between cylinders and valves, three new sleeves, three valve seats, one thread insert for one head stud. Then I should have a good block to base my boat build around.

I will take it to the engine reconditioners (old guy, knows old engines) later in the week for a clean and crack test.... then I will know what is needed and I can plan from there.

Progress!

gavinnz · 03-23-2019, 08:03 AM

I have still not taken the engine to the reconditioners to be check for more cracks... I have found more myself! So basically the engine would need FOUR sleeves and three cracks repaired, two thread inserts for head studs and three valve seats...

SO I have decided to strip the truck block down and see if it will need less money/work to get to a good place. Right away I know it has one crack from barrel to valve. It is already 40 over and has two sleeves that I don't think will have enough meat to take a rebore.... so two new sleeves. The strip down will begin in the morning!! It will go faster now I know more of what I am doling... Fingers crossed for not to many surprises....

Ziggster · 03-23-2019, 10:15 AM

Looking at this, I feel blessed that my C69 block was only CAN$100 has has no issues other than an inconsequential crack between one of head bolts threads and water jacket, a broken bolt, and a poorly installed heli-coil. It passed the pressure test and is heading for a cleaning next week, and finally the machining. There are still flathead available here locally in the CAN$500 range. Is it worthwhile to ship something like that to New Zealand, especially if a seacan was used with a dozen plus? Could be a good business for someone so inclined?

oldredford · 03-23-2019, 12:22 PM

I have the Mitchell overdrive in my forty coupe. No speed indication. I removed the cable from the gearbox and turned the plastic gear and no movement at the other end. Anybody else have this problem? Mitchell is closed on SATURDAY. I will call them Monday...

gavinnz · 03-27-2019, 08:11 PM

Truck engine stripped. The water that poured from the sump when I picked it up seems to have done very little damage. All the crank journals are clean and shiny.
Still just the one crack evident. All the valve seats look good.

Last night I made a special tool on the lathe to be a push fit in the stud holes in the head with a 3/8 hole down the centre so today I am going to start the process of drilling out the studs I broke!! I heated them red hot, used wax... did all the things I had read about that would help and still broke a few. Nothing I can fix!

So this engine block seems a better proposition.... at this stage it seems like one crack to fix, two sleeves (to replace older sleeves that are to small and look badly fitted to me) and a big overbore to clear the rust pitting in the bores. Fingers crossed for drilling out the studs!

gavinnz · 03-28-2019, 07:31 AM

Well I am feeling quite smug tonight! I have managed to drill out and clean up all the broken head studs and all the threads are good. Really happy about that state of affairs.

tubman · 03-28-2019, 09:01 AM

Congratulations! Being an "8BA guy", I've never had the "pleasure" of experiencing that particular exercise. Now, for some real progress!

gavinnz · 03-28-2019, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tubman

Congratulations! Being an "8BA guy", I've never had the "pleasure" of experiencing that particular exercise. Now, for some real progress!

Yes this engine has me a little confused.... It has the 8ba side mag and no built in bell housing, but came with studs... Its a Canadian build truck motor.

I think i read somewhere they had studs for the early side mag engines? Could well be wrong... I am still learning.

alchemy · 03-28-2019, 04:27 PM

You say "side mag", but that is not a magneto. It's a distributor. No magnets in there.

gavinnz · 03-28-2019, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alchemy

You say "side mag", but that is not a magneto. It's a distributor. No magnets in there.

Yes, that was a brain fade.... it was about 4am when I wrote that!

03-03-2019, 01:26 PM	#41
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: Bought three Flathead V8 engines yesterday The bellhousing adapter on the truck transmission is commonly referred to as a "Hogshead". The block looks like it was "pinned" to me, which is the correct way to do the repair.

03-03-2019, 06:42 PM	#43
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: Bought three Flathead V8 engines yesterday The hogshead is not needed to bolt the 59a era (or earlier) transmissions on. The bellhousing adapter is part of the transmission. Not sure this to correct on the car transmissions, I was thinking of the light pickup transmissions. Last edited by JSeery; 03-03-2019 at 07:00 PM.

03-03-2019, 07:21 PM	#46
gavinnz Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2019 Location: New Zealand Posts: 208	Re: Bought three Flathead V8 engines yesterday Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Thanks! that's great info. That one on the right is what came with the car engine without a trans... well this is leading me back to maybe using my hogshead and my marine trans and paying to make adapters to the flywheel of the ford... will cost a bit in outside machining costs (my lathe can't spin the diameter of the flywheel) but might be less trouble than converting a Ford box I don't have to marine use in the end.... and I looking into the history of my Borg Warner Velvet drive trans and they were made is various forms right back into the 1950's so it would be OK to fit in the boat and be reasonably authentic.... There is more than one way to skin a cat.... and I know that for a fact!

03-04-2019, 02:06 PM	#47
Ol' Ron Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Chester Vt Posts: 8,859	Re: Bought three Flathead V8 engines yesterday There is a post by a fellow by the name of Erney I think that shows all the stock bell housings used on Flathead engines. In the roadster I use a hogs adapters to at T-% trans. THis way I can use a late 8BA style or early 59 style engine, with no clutch or adapter problems, just bolt them in.

03-15-2019, 08:19 PM	#48
gavinnz Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2019 Location: New Zealand Posts: 208	Re: Bought three Flathead V8 engines yesterday Engines are finally in my workshop and slowly coming apart so see what I have... The "truck engine" has two sleeve replaced and a crack between the cylinder and the valve on one cylinder. Plus it has had water inside the bottom end I am yet to look at. The "car engine" has no sleeves, repaired cracks on one bank and one visable unrepaired crack between the valve and cylinder and into the cylinder on the other bank. It is still on it's standard bore. No water/rust in the bottom end so far. The "car engine" is at this stage looking like the best to repair, one sleeve and valve seat and fix the one unfixed crack and an over bore. More to come as I get to the bottom ends!

03-15-2019, 08:33 PM	#49
gavinnz Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2019 Location: New Zealand Posts: 208	Re: Bought three Flathead V8 engines yesterday Also my Canadian blocks have single numbers case in a few places... The truck engine has "3" cast is on the block top centre just next to where the bell housing bolts on... the car engine as a "4" cast in that spot and at least one other place.... Could that indicate 1953 and 1954??

03-18-2019, 04:52 AM	#50
gavinnz Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2019 Location: New Zealand Posts: 208	Re: Bought three Flathead V8 engines yesterday The bottom end of the "car engine" seems pretty good, no water damage, bearings are buggered but you would expect that. The main bearing shells still have Ford Made in Canada on the backs so I think they could be originals? Would go with the standard bores.. one piston had been replaced at some time. Still trying to get the oil pump and cam out. Oil pump is REAL well stuck! Heat will be the next thing to try....

03-19-2019, 05:14 AM	#51
gavinnz Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2019 Location: New Zealand Posts: 208	Re: Bought three Flathead V8 engines yesterday Oil pump out after some heat and leverage! Cam out. So the block is stripped except for the oil pump idler gear I cant get at with it on the engine stand. Looks like two cracks to be repaired between cylinders and valves, three new sleeves, three valve seats, one thread insert for one head stud. Then I should have a good block to base my boat build around. I will take it to the engine reconditioners (old guy, knows old engines) later in the week for a clean and crack test.... then I will know what is needed and I can plan from there. Progress!

03-23-2019, 08:03 AM	#52
gavinnz Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2019 Location: New Zealand Posts: 208	Re: Bought three Flathead V8 engines yesterday I have still not taken the engine to the reconditioners to be check for more cracks... I have found more myself! So basically the engine would need FOUR sleeves and three cracks repaired, two thread inserts for head studs and three valve seats... SO I have decided to strip the truck block down and see if it will need less money/work to get to a good place. Right away I know it has one crack from barrel to valve. It is already 40 over and has two sleeves that I don't think will have enough meat to take a rebore.... so two new sleeves. The strip down will begin in the morning!! It will go faster now I know more of what I am doling... Fingers crossed for not to many surprises....

03-23-2019, 10:15 AM	#53
Ziggster Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: Ottawa, ON Posts: 851	Re: Bought three Flathead V8 engines yesterday Looking at this, I feel blessed that my C69 block was only CAN$100 has has no issues other than an inconsequential crack between one of head bolts threads and water jacket, a broken bolt, and a poorly installed heli-coil. It passed the pressure test and is heading for a cleaning next week, and finally the machining. There are still flathead available here locally in the CAN$500 range. Is it worthwhile to ship something like that to New Zealand, especially if a seacan was used with a dozen plus? Could be a good business for someone so inclined?

03-23-2019, 12:22 PM	#54
oldredford Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Moncks Corner, SC Posts: 439	Re: Bought three Flathead V8 engines yesterday I have the Mitchell overdrive in my forty coupe. No speed indication. I removed the cable from the gearbox and turned the plastic gear and no movement at the other end. Anybody else have this problem? Mitchell is closed on SATURDAY. I will call them Monday...

03-27-2019, 08:11 PM	#55
gavinnz Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2019 Location: New Zealand Posts: 208	Re: Bought three Flathead V8 engines yesterday Truck engine stripped. The water that poured from the sump when I picked it up seems to have done very little damage. All the crank journals are clean and shiny. Still just the one crack evident. All the valve seats look good. Last night I made a special tool on the lathe to be a push fit in the stud holes in the head with a 3/8 hole down the centre so today I am going to start the process of drilling out the studs I broke!! I heated them red hot, used wax... did all the things I had read about that would help and still broke a few. Nothing I can fix! So this engine block seems a better proposition.... at this stage it seems like one crack to fix, two sleeves (to replace older sleeves that are to small and look badly fitted to me) and a big overbore to clear the rust pitting in the bores. Fingers crossed for drilling out the studs!

03-28-2019, 07:31 AM	#56
gavinnz Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2019 Location: New Zealand Posts: 208	Re: Bought three Flathead V8 engines yesterday Well I am feeling quite smug tonight! I have managed to drill out and clean up all the broken head studs and all the threads are good. Really happy about that state of affairs.

03-28-2019, 09:01 AM	#57
tubman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys Posts: 10,312	Re: Bought three Flathead V8 engines yesterday Congratulations! Being an "8BA guy", I've never had the "pleasure" of experiencing that particular exercise. Now, for some real progress!

03-28-2019, 04:27 PM	#59
alchemy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: middle of Iowa Posts: 647	Re: Bought three Flathead V8 engines yesterday You say "side mag", but that is not a magneto. It's a distributor. No magnets in there.