Parts prices are killing our hobby

[Capt Kirk]

Sal, My dad put a Carson top on the car and removed the top well so us kids could "travel" between the rumble seat area and the inside of the car. I remember standing inside the car behind the seat and staring out the window. I had to scratch build a new top well when I restored it.

[Karl]

I agree that the prices of pre 1960 cars are dropping. I disagree that the prices of A's T's and V8's are going to be hit harder than the rest. The distinct advantage of early Fords over almost any other vintage car is parts availability Repop or otherwise. If you a young you probably lack the skills to keep most vintage cars on the road. With early fords you can buy parts off the shelf which will keep you on the road thereby broadening the market to the young and also the mechanically inept. . Certainly in this country if you discount the rare exotic vintages Early Fords are the only vintage cars appreciating nicely.

[aonemarine]

my biggest concern is that all these parts that have been hoarded away will end up at the scrap yard for $0.15 per one hundred lbs once the collector passes and their kin wants to clean shop....

[petehoovie]

My age is what is 'killing our hobby' for me as well as my life style.- At 73, I still smoke and drink and brawl and chase wild women (I'm a 16 year old kid trapped in this 73 year old body). My son and only heir has no interest in my cars and I don't want him to have to go through the hassle of selling them after I croak. As much as I hate to, I'll probably put them up for sale next spring (that is, if I'm still vertical). I'm in the process of d-junking myself as well. I'm thinking it'll be my contribution to 'our hobby'. One should always prepare oneself for the 'dirt nap' so as to not burden others....

[Kube]

Parts price are killing the hobby? Really? For whom? Any hobby by nature is "supposed" to be for pleasure and common sense dictates it is"supposed" to be paid for out of "fun money".
If a person's primary reason for a hobby is to profit, then it is not a hobby but a business.
That being said and hopefully understood, there is another major yet simple economic rule - "supply & demand". Quite simple actually. When there is not enough supply to satisfy the demand, prices increase. When the supply outstrips the demand, prices decrease.
This simple rule has effect upon everything.

As many of you know, I restore 1939 and 1940 Fords to the very top level of perfection / authenticity as I am able. Are these vehicles worth what has been invested in to them? On occasion, yes, they are. More often than not, they are worth somewhat less than what has been invested.
Still, the gentleman that desire these restorations insist on the best available and are willing to pay what is necessary to acquire them.

It has been my personal experience that the very "top point" restorations hold their value the best during market fluctuations. Why? Supply is extremely limited. Demand is limited as well but here again, that simple "supply & demand" rule plays true. The demand has always outstripped the supply and most likely always will. Remember if you will, this level of restoration brings forth something more akin to a work of art than simply an automobile. And, like art, it retains value through economic anomalies better than (simple) automobiles.

Driver quality collector cars are most certainly something to be coveted. However, once again that "rule" applies. There are countless examples of driver quality vehicles and many folks that can afford them. That "evens" out the market and typically equates to a flat value.

As we "car guys" age, there will most certainly be many, many more collector cars becoming available. At that same time, the youth of that time will have less and less desire to own what many of us have coveted. Oh, oh, that "rule" once again... high supply / low demand = declining value.

The bottom line in my opinion? If you can afford the luxury of a hobby that can easily get expensive, then do so. Have fun - enjoy.
If you can't afford it, then you most likely should be giving serious thought to liquidating your collection sooner rather than later.

[Capt Kirk]

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Well said Kube! Peethovie brought up a good point too. Some of us have amassed a huge stockpile of antique parts for these cars that we love. That's good! If a person is of an age where they won't be restoring anymore vehicles but rather enjoying the ones they have, they should seriously consider turning over their "trove" to the next generation of builders. When one passes, too many times these important parts are hauled off for scrap. Don't let that happen. My neighbor was an old car guy and died a couple years ago. His son is now living in the house and is clueless. He told me there's a flathead in the shed and the shed is rotting down around it. He sells scrap metal to supplement his income. I haven't seen the engine but told him I want it. The shop is FULL and I'm guessing that he and his siblings will scrap it all when the time comes. A shame! For those who have amassed a collection of old for parts and know you're not going to be around long enough to use them all...give/sell it all to people you know will continue you're mission.

[Barry-ct]

I've messed with cars since the early 70's and have seen what has happened to the hobby. As soon as speculators saw that there was a buck to be made, it changed from a hobby to have fun with, to a investment tool. They saw if they bought a car, waited for the market to rise, they could sell and reap a handsome profit. It went from reasonable to absurd! Then the retailers saw a need for repro parts ( justifiably so ) and started to get parts we needed made. But that was only because they saw a handsome buck could be made. It's the same with real estate. No longer do you buy a house and live most of your life there. It is an investment, so you can buy and sell depending on the market. People worry about their houses value like watching the stock market.
I've owned my truck 33 years and now at 62, I'm beginning to think I may never finish it. Why? Because everyone has his hand out looking for the big buck for everything. $500+ for a gallon of paint ( thanks EPA and Dupont )That is crazy. I never got the big buck when I worked for a living. Everything went up except my paycheck! Even doing 99% of the work myself, It still is super expensive to do it. I am seriously thinking of getting the truck running decent again and selling out. I have a lot of sentimental value in it, but it is unrealistic to think at what my income is now, that I can do it. I may just switch to old garden tractors and restore them, as they are plentiful and cheap in comparison. Yes, they will eventually become an investment item, as greed will overtake them also. Hopefully, not in my lifetime.
Kids today don't want to get dirty, or at least it is a much smaller number of kids. not like it was when I was young. The car hobby will eventually die off slowly, or only the rich will be able to collect cars, like art. Sad state of affairs, but we have no one to blame but ourselves. We all have greed in our hearts. Face it, we're human......

[Tony Martino]

Hey Tubman,
Thanks very much for your kind words!
Best regards,
Tony

[Capt Kirk]

Barry...true story. Don't abandon the family history of your truck. Do what you can and get it drive-able if possible. Enjoy working on it. Don't worry about making it "pretty" with $500 a gallon paint. I enjoy seeing these old cars and trucks going down the road that look like they just got rescued from sitting out in the field for 30 years.

[Jeff/Illinois]

We are seeing the effects of a rotten economy. People have less and less money to spend on things like old cars. People in the U.S. are hurting, millions of good paying jobs have been sent away people just don't have money like they used to. Period. Ain't gonna get any better folks.

[39topless]

Originally Posted by tubman

i've had some dealings with ton martino (above) and have been very happy with the results. Guys like him are great for the hobby; without them, good parts would be lost, scrapped, or even worse. Also, after dealing with him, i know i have another good source for what i need. Parts-wise, i'm pretty well set now (behind on most of my projects), but if i ever need any odd part, he'd probably be the first guy i called.

x2!

[Kube]

Originally Posted by Capt Kirk

Well said Kube! Peethovie brought up a good point too. Some of us have amassed a huge stockpile of antique parts for these cars that we love. That's good! If a person is of an age where they won't be restoring anymore vehicles but rather enjoying the ones they have, they should seriously consider turning over their "trove" to the next generation of builders. When one passes, too many times these important parts are hauled off for scrap. Don't let that happen. My neighbor was an old car guy and died a couple years ago. His son is now living in the house and is clueless. He told me there's a flathead in the shed and the shed is rotting down around it. He sells scrap metal to supplement his income. I haven't seen the engine but told him I want it. The shop is FULL and I'm guessing that he and his siblings will scrap it all when the time comes. A shame! For those who have amassed a collection of old for parts and know you're not going to be around long enough to use them all...give/sell it all to people you know will continue you're mission.

I started selling my "stash" off about ten years ago. I still have a long way to go. I won't attempt to deceive anyone - the sales prices realized were more often than not phenomenal. To my "credit" I never utilized a reserve and at times, sold "cheap". Hey, a true auction is just that - an auction. Ya win some, ya lose some.
I have been fortunate in that I came "of age" when these old cars were plentiful, parts even more so. I had the interest and fortunately the funds to purchase a lot. Much got "turned over" to fund the next project. However, a lot got stashed away. Too much in fact and as you'd advised others, I thought it time to start reducing the inventory.
It has felt really wonderful on numerous occasions to be able to supply some rare piece to a guy that has been looking and looking for a long time. I know that feeling of a personal "Christmas" when I'd find a long sought after part.

On a side not of sorts: About six, maybe seven years ago, I came to know of two huge pole barns stacked with Ford parts, both new and used, to the ceilings. The owner had passed and the son, about 45ish, wouldn't sell. The communication went on and on for over a year. He just couldn't or wouldn't come up with a price.
Then, the last time I'd called, I found he sold it all by the pound.
With DUE respect, he was a moron. I'd offered him $15,000 at one (early) point in our communication.
Scrap steel by the pound? I am certain he fell quite short.
The real sad part was the lost opportunity to help so very many.

[Lanny]

Originally Posted by tubman

I've had some dealings with Tony Martino (above) and have been very happy with the results. Guys like him are great for the hobby; without them, good parts would be lost, scrapped, or even worse. Also, after dealing with him, I know I have another good source for what I need. Parts-wise, I'm pretty well set now (behind on most of my projects), but if I ever need any odd part, he'd probably be the first guy I called.

===============================================



Hey Denny, I was going to come up to Brainerd this weekend,
untill the weather forecast started to look pretty wet up there.
Someday I'll get up there so we can reminisce about the fun
we had racing the old cars back in the day, what a hoot.

I also agree about Tony Martino being a good guy for parts.

Tony had ONE rare old '56 Lincoln wheel, and I had ONE nice
steel '56 Lincoln wheel, and we joined forces and sold our
Two wheels to a fellow member from Iowa who wanted
exactly what we had, and I might say, at a fair price too.









.

[Ron Pilger]

After nine productive hours in the shop today, I sat down and carefully read every word on this topic which I started this morning. (In keeping with tradition, I also checked the swap section to see if there might be seat tracks and base for a 36 Coupe being offered at less than the cost of a university education for one of my kids. I struck out). At any rate, great input and answers from all of you. Sometime back around noon I had decided that every car I've built or bought in the past 38 years was going to be advertised for sale. Then about mid-afternoon, when my blood-sugar was changing, it hit me like a ton of used Ford parts enroute to the scrap dealer - that this very idea would be stupid. Instead I reasoned: if there is a market for an original speedometer for $375 or an old intake for $225 wouldn't it smarter to simply part out every car? My high point 34 Cabriolet sold part by part should be worth about half a million. My 37 rumble-seat Cabriolet - an easy $400,000 at today's pricing for individual parts.
After a good night's sleep I will probably walk down the block tomorrow to see a “young guy” (about fifty, I think) who has just bought a decent restored 36 Tudor. No doubt the complete, nicely running 37 flathead that is now in it will be hanging from his shop crane within the week. He will likely tell me to drop him $150 and a case of beer and I will proudly drag that old powerplant home. He will throw in the transmission. But, genuine fellow hobbyists, I assure you that this old flattie won't be offered the next day for $1500 and God knows that I won't tell my wife and kids that I just bought another engine. Now I’m going cruising in the Mustang.

[petehoovie]

Ron Pilger said: "Parts prices are killing our hobby" - And I say: "Surely you jest, Ron"....As I tried to indicate in my previous post, it's the aging process that is "killing our hobby". I became acutely aware of this the last time l attended an Early Ford V8 Club National Meet...I walked into the banquet room for the awards ceremony and all I saw was a sea of gray and bald heads. I found this view to be very depressing. I couldn't relate to it even though I'm a member of the generation of people who were present there. Right then and there it became apparent to me that "our hobby" is doomed. "What is going to happen to all of these beautiful old V8 Fords I saw that day on the Concours Field?!!!" - I said to myself. There are very few younger people interested in these cars of ours. Even those 'young'uns' who are interested in them don't have the love for them, the knowledge to maintain them or the funds to do so as we have. Because of this experience/revelation, I found it to be too depressing for me to ever again attend another EFV8 Club National Meet....I'm a realist!....

[Ol' Ron]

I think the term "restoring" is the answer. A well restored car belongs in a Museum, Driving them in today's traffic is dangerious. Even a small accadent, can cost a larg fortune. I see many people on this forum trying to buy parts for their car just to put it on the road. Like brake drums and parts for the original suspension. Columbia rear axles. Points distributors etc. Why spend money like this on a daily driver. Modern stuff is cheaper and easier to get parts for. It's still the same old car. You haven't changed the car. You've just up graded the old warn out parts with new stuff. I hate the thought of replacing the engine with a modern engine. But the prices of rebuilding these flatheads is getting ridiculous. I have a local fellow that just bought a 34 PU. I told him to upgrade the brakes and steering. Great for local driving. After checking the prices, he sold it for a profit. Decided it would cost too much. I have over 15K in my 47, haven't spent a nickel on the body. couldn't get 5 K for it, looks like a piece of junk.

[flatheadmurre]

Any hobby cost money and prices go up but so does it for anything...money just aint worth what they used to be.
The sad part is that a young guy can´t get his hands on a cheap starter car today.
And if the young people ain´t getting into the hobby it will die out.
The common lack of basic mechanic skills and the silly prices charged by autshops around here doesn´t help either.

[stokes.greg]

I'm 38 and I've been playing with old cars for 10 years. Most were mustangs because they were cheap and parts were too. Now that I've saved some money and making more I can have a 41 and a 46. But after going to cruising the coast a few times and National street rods in Louisville I'm the kid in this hobby. But there are a bunch of grandpas teaching grandson and granddaughters to love street rods. None of that is on topic but I'm a little off anyway.

[Moyock13]

It's like this fella's. Us younger builders have a tough time finding parts for two basic reasons.
1) People think that old car parts are gold plated and charge accordingly
2) Other folks with the experience tend to hoard parts. Look in your garage and see how many parts you have.
So, I wonder. If we are all worried about our "hobby" dying out, why not share the wealth a little!?! I'm not saying just give your stuff away, what I am saying is stop complaining if you're part of the problem. If you tend to hoard old parts, ease up and make them available to the rest of us at reasonable prices.
Sorry to be blunt, but I take exception to someone complaining only to find their are part of the problem. And I apologize if I've offended anyone, not my intention.

[richard crow]

shipping cost are very high they add a fuel ser charge when fuel prices go up but never lower them when fuel prices go down also crome plating is off the charts buy one done it,s cost to much to restore them