New generator leaking oil

[zaugger]

Hey folks!

My old generator seized, so I bought a new refurbished one (from Bert's), installed it (along with a belt) and just took it out for a spin. When I came back I had oil leaking from the generator and it was hot and smoking. Any ideas what I did wrong here and next steps? I'm a newbie t this stuff. I hate to think I just fried it. Thoughts?

Thanks in advance.

Chris

[katy]

Contact Bert's

[Will N]

Probably not oil leaking. Probably melted coatings from armature and field coils. Did you happen to notice the ammeter while you were driving? What was the output?

[Gary WA]

If you have a lot of voltage, third brush set to high will melt the solder. cause lt to look like oil leaking!

[zaugger]

The ampmeter looked straight up to me. The casing was very hot.

[bobbader]

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Possible bad ground between generator & engine. The generator needs proper grounding to function optimally. I agree that what you are seeing is melted insulating material. Any possibility you did some engine paint touch up on the generator mounting area while waiting for your new generator. Also a good idea to sand off some paint from the generator mounting brackets where they meet the afore mentioned mount on the engine.

[john charlton]

Maybe a cutout fault so no charging current getting to the battery . If the generator is not in circuit its internal voltage can reach around 35 volts causing eventual burn out . If you run a generator not connected to a battery you must ground the output so it does not get energised . To some this does not sound logical but this is how it is .

John in partly sunny Suffolk County England .

[Model "A" Fords]

Originally Posted by zaugger

Hey folks!

My old generator seized, so I bought a new refurbished one (from Bert's), installed it (along with a belt) and just took it out for a spin. When I came back I had oil leaking from the generator and it was hot and smoking. Any ideas what I did wrong here and next steps? I'm a newbie t this stuff. I hate to think I just fried it. Thoughts?

Thanks in advance.

Chris

Are there any club members close to? Most car guys are glad to share what they know just as they do here on The Barn. Having another hand around can be a confidence booster. Ask here if anyone is in your area.
Good luck with the generator!

[zaugger]

Thanks for the input here, fellas. The idea of this relating to the ground/cutout makes some sense to me. I had to wire the connection from the generator to the cutout a little differently from my original generator because of the way the new generator came – with a post. (The original juts had a wire coming from the inside of the generator.)

Anybody here in the Minneapolis area? 😉

Chris

[rotorwrench]

The model B 4-cylinder engines started the trend of the use of a power and ground wire that exit the case in the same basic position as the earlier generators with the terminal stud. The terminal studs were used on both the powerhouse and the Autolite cylinder shaped generators in the model A era. There were several versions on both types. The generators coming from general auto parts rebuilder sources could be configured in a lot of different ways. They just lumped all the 4-cylinder Autolite type generators into one pile and rebuilt them all in one way back in the day since they were the most common generator type.

It pays to check the cut out to find out what type it is. It could be an OEM type electromechanical relay that closes as soon as the generator exceeds battery voltage or it could be a power diode in a can which is the common replacement now days. It also could be a Fun Projects voltage regulator in a can but it's hard to tell what it is by just looking at it. A multi meter can tell if it's a diode but that's about it. Pulling the cover off will tell but many are spot welded on so the little spot welds have to be ground down to pull the cover off.

With a regular cut out or a diode, the amp meter should show a charge. Even a voltage regulated type will show a charge until the battery is back up to full voltage. The ammeter can be tested with a battery charger to make sure it's at least indicating a charge or a discharge. The third brush should be adjusted for proper output on an overhauled unit. 5-amps is good for daytime function (headlights off). The generator should be polarized by the overhauler but if not a person can motor it with proper polarity. It's not the best way to polarize the magnetism to the field pole shoes but it will get it started anyway. Once the generator is in use then it will make it's own magnetism in the pole shoes.

3-brush generators count on the battery to regulate the output voltage. This requires the connections to be maintained in good condition and secure. The battery condition also has to be maintained in good condition and state of charge. If the generator looses contact with the battery, it is no longer regulated and can be damaged beyond economical repair. Take good care of the charging system and it will take good care of you.

[zaugger]

Great info here. Not exactly sure how to check this. You mentioned it's hard to tell by sight, but I thought I would provide a picture anyway. Any thoughts?

https://scontent.ffcm1-2.fna.fbcdn.n...SQ&oe=646F493D

[Bob C]

Maybe take the band off so we can see if the armature threw any solder or
looks burnt.

[zaugger]

Newbie on generator repair. Can I take the band off while it's in the car? (It looks like I can.) And from there, what will allow me to see the inside? Will the back pop off?

[Bob C]

It will look like this.

[ndnchf]

I made this short video about adjusting the generator's 3rd brush. Maybe it will help you to understand what's inside.

https://youtu.be/PL94VX3GIq8

[zaugger]

Good stuff! Here are two more images. Nothing looks burned to me, but there WAS smoke and oil...or something greasy that was dripping anyway. Thoughts?

https://scontent.ffcm1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...ww&oe=646EA4EC

https://scontent.ffcm1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...Lg&oe=6470800D

I watched the video. I wonder if I was creating too many amps and it overheated? I didn't notice that on the meter, but maybe I missed it.

[ndnchf]

Make sure your cutout is properly grounded to the generator body. It looks loose in the photo. It must be grounded (clean, bare metal) to work properly.

[bobbader]

I agree you probably should be in touch with Bert's and forward them the photos. The last photo with the band off shows a wire that appears to be wrapped with vinyl electrical tape. But, there appears to be at least one section of that wire where the copper strands are exposed. This could be part of your problem ............... or not. It should, however, suggest some possible concern. Let Bert's dictate what to do next. 12 of us can respond with the best of intentions ............. and give you 12 different answers in trying our best to help. Since you are new to Model A's and generators, go first to the source of the product. They have at least as much, if not way more, experience with these issues. Bert's is a top notch organization. Let them be in on the process before going further.

[bobv]

Anybody here in the Minneapolis area? 😉

Chris[/QUOTE]

www.tcmafc.com

[rotorwrench]

The fillister head screw doesn't have much of a head to it. I think they had a different head on the originals. The cut out looks to be a reproduction but I cant tell if it's a diode type by looking at it. They used to have a little 90 degree tab with an open slot to connect the cut out to the terminal stud on the generator. Those should be available from some model A parts source. The wire jumper looks a little out of place on there.

[zaugger]

Thanks for everyone's help. I DID chat with Steve from Bert's, and from his advice I tested some things and confirmed the problem is the cutout. It's likely is the reason my old generator failed as well. Appreciate your advice!

Chris

[alexiskai]

Originally Posted by zaugger

Thanks for everyone's help. I DID chat with Steve from Bert's, and from his advice I tested some things and confirmed the problem is the cutout. It's likely is the reason my old generator failed as well. Appreciate your advice!

Chris

User ndnchf restores and sells original cutouts, I think he has a post up in the For Sale section.

[mleder]

The Twin Cites Model A Ford Club - about 250 members, monthly clinics, newsletter and great activities . Check it out on facebook or contact: [email protected] and ask for a membership application

[nkaminar]

A multimeter can be a great help in sorting out electrical problems. The digital ones are very low cost. Measuring the voltage output of the generator at a fast idle will provide lots of information. Measure at the generator output terminal and at the cutout terminal. Measure with respect to the generator housing and a another ground point on a shinny object connected to the frame to see if there is a ground issue. You can also measure the battery voltage at the posts when charging to see if there is an issue of the current getting to the battery. You can use the resistance setting on the meter to see if there are any shorts to ground or to see if the cutout is bad. if the current is 10 amps or less you can use the current setting on the meter to see what the current actually is. Learning to use the multimeter will save a lot of time and allow you to analyze any issues. It will save you money.