|
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
04-10-2016, 07:23 AM | #1 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Columbiana,OH
Posts: 461
|
Locked-up rear end
Went to help a Model A owner who has a major problem. The car won't move in any gear to the point of stalling the motor. Tranmission is in good shape. Before we go to remove the rear end for repair, Is there a way to tell if the problem is ring/pinion vs spider gears?
|
04-10-2016, 07:27 AM | #2 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mpls, MN
Posts: 27,582
|
Re: Locked-up rear end
Put the rear end up on jack stands, put the tranny in gear, then turn one rear wheel by hand and see if the other rear wheel turns the opposite direction. It should turn smoothly without clunking and binding. If it does, then the spider gears are likely good.
BTW, I've seen brake lining bind up a rear end. Does the gear shift feel normal as you move it through each gear? |
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) |
|
04-10-2016, 07:33 AM | #3 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 438
|
Re: Locked-up rear end
If the spyders were locked, car would still roll straight forward. I'm betting the trans is stuck in two gears. Just a guess really. Does the car move in reverse with shift lever in nuetral? It's time to remove the rer and trouble shoot.
|
04-10-2016, 07:43 AM | #4 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 438
|
Re: Locked-up rear end
I had an E-brake so mangled it would not release.
|
04-10-2016, 07:46 AM | #5 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Columbiana,OH
Posts: 461
|
Re: Locked-up rear end
Trans seems to shift smoothly through all gears. In 1st gear, it might move forward inch or two. Same thing in Reverse. Then with trans out of gear, will not roll in either direction.
|
04-10-2016, 08:50 AM | #6 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Kalamazoo, MI
Posts: 173
|
Re: Locked-up rear end
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Jerry |
04-10-2016, 08:55 AM | #7 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Columbiana,OH
Posts: 461
|
Re: Locked-up rear end
Raised rear and both wheels/axles rotate as they should. Ring pinion problem? U-joint?
|
04-10-2016, 09:07 AM | #8 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mpls, MN
Posts: 27,582
|
Re: Locked-up rear end
At this point I'd make sure the tranny isn't locked in two gears at the same time. You should be able to tell by the feel of the gear shift lever as it moves the gears, but you may want to remove the top of the tranny to be sure. This will also give you a chance to see if the problem could be in the tranny.
The engine runs OK as I recall, but I found a bolt in the bellhousing locking the flywheel from turning once. BTW, how did this problem originate? Last edited by Tom Wesenberg; 04-10-2016 at 09:26 AM. |
04-10-2016, 09:31 AM | #9 |
BANNED
Join Date: May 2012
Location: inside your RAM
Posts: 3,134
|
Re: Locked-up rear end
did this come on suddenly?
What was done to the car before this happened. Did the owner drive over some RR tracks too fast? With wheel hop you can destroy the pinion if you do so. How do we know the tranny is good? Did it work OK before the wheels locked? Way more info is needed; this would be an unusual problem.
__________________
'31 180A |
04-10-2016, 09:56 AM | #10 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: St Charles , Missouri
Posts: 1,998
|
Re: Locked-up rear end
I agree with Tom's assessment. To eliminate any e brake issues remove the drums and check rotation then .
Larry |
04-10-2016, 12:38 PM | #11 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Columbiana,OH
Posts: 461
|
Re: Locked-up rear end
Came on suddenly. Car is driven frequently. Owner reported hearing a "clunk" upon leaving a stop light. With floor jack under banjo, wheels rotate freely. Makes me think there is not a brake problem.
|
04-10-2016, 01:13 PM | #12 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Colfax, Louisiana
Posts: 15
|
Re: Locked-up rear end
In reply 7, "they rotate as they should". In other words, rotate one side forward and other side rotates backward? Can both be rotated forward or backward with a person on each wheel and transmission in neutral? Success on these test should eliminate a differential and driveshaft problem.
|
04-10-2016, 06:47 PM | #13 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 438
|
Re: Locked-up rear end
Will the wheels roll if pushing the car in neutral?
|
04-10-2016, 07:20 PM | #14 |
BANNED
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bucks County, PA
Posts: 11,454
|
Re: Locked-up rear end
Look at the ring gear through the fill hole..
|
04-10-2016, 07:48 PM | #15 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: alabama
Posts: 146
|
Re: Locked-up rear end
My 29 Special Coupe was trying to lock up when coasting, on acceleration it would pull with no problem but was making noise. When I disassembled rear I found the pinion bearing preload and lock nuts had come loose and traveled up drive shaft. I had to build rear with new ring gear and pinion, bearings and gaskets. The old ring and pinion looked ok but was a 4-11 ratio, I put in 3-54 and am very pleased. Dwayne
|
04-12-2016, 04:56 PM | #16 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Columbiana,OH
Posts: 461
|
Re: Locked-up rear end
Update! Returned to the "A" in question today. With trans in nuetral, rear wheels off the ground, we each attempted to rotate rear wheels forward and then attempt to rotate to the rear. No dice. Locked up tight. So... I'll be returning on Sat AM where after consuming requisite coffee & donuts, the rear end assy is coming out!
|
04-12-2016, 05:37 PM | #17 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Iron River Wi
Posts: 172
|
Re: Locked-up rear end
I think before you do that< you should pull the trans tower. As tom mentioned, much easier job. pete
|
04-12-2016, 05:43 PM | #18 |
BANNED
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bucks County, PA
Posts: 11,454
|
Re: Locked-up rear end
Did you peak in the fill hole??
|
04-12-2016, 06:03 PM | #19 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Columbiana,OH
Posts: 461
|
Re: Locked-up rear end
Trans tower was removed and trans drained. No damaged gears. All seems to be in order. Every gear shifts as it should. Have not looked in the fill hole of rear end.
1. When clutch released, stalls engine, doesn't move. 2. With trans in nuetral, will not roll. 3. With rear wheels off ground, both wheels turn freely, in opposite direction as they should. 4. With rear wheels off ground, trans in nuetral, attempt to rotate both wheels same direction was not possible. Last edited by Del in NE Ohio; 04-12-2016 at 06:04 PM. Reason: Text |
04-12-2016, 06:10 PM | #20 |
BANNED
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bucks County, PA
Posts: 11,454
|
Re: Locked-up rear end
Look for metal in the diff oil when u drain it. If you see none or nothing when looking in the fill hole ,,, open the clamshell first when you go to drop the rear...
|
04-12-2016, 06:31 PM | #21 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Columbiana,OH
Posts: 461
|
Re: Locked-up rear end
That's my plan. I'm hoping for a u-joint fatality.
|
04-12-2016, 07:18 PM | #22 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mpls, MN
Posts: 27,582
|
Re: Locked-up rear end
If you don't find any problem at the clamshell, then you can remove the right brake drum and left side axle tube bolts, and pull the axle assembly out the left side.
|
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) |
|
04-12-2016, 09:25 PM | #23 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: St Charles , Missouri
Posts: 1,998
|
Re: Locked-up rear end
I agree with Tom but I think it's almost best to undo the clamshell and pull the rear axle back a little . you can then use a pair of channel lock pliers to tey and turn the driveshaft, you can complete removing the rear axle further back to access the left side housing easier to remove and also check out the u-joint and driveshaft. It's possible you have a pinion bearing issue , u torque tube/houaings and hopefully not a gear issue. Your spiders and axles appear to be ok as you turned them both in opposing directions ok .
Let us know. Best of luck!! Larry Shepard Last edited by larrys40; 04-12-2016 at 09:41 PM. |
04-12-2016, 11:13 PM | #24 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: 215 E. 6th Street Northport, Michigan 49670
Posts: 952
|
Re: Locked-up rear end
We had the very same thing happen in my shop last summer. One of the driveshaft bearings had disintegrated, and the small rollers were locking up the ring gear. I'll bet that is what you will find when the rear is disassembled. Car was driving down the roadway, and suddenly just locked up.
__________________
Bob from Northport Northport, Michigan |
04-13-2016, 05:41 AM | #25 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Columbiana,OH
Posts: 461
|
Re: Locked-up rear end
My efforts will now have to wait until Saturday. Delayed by good weather!
|
04-13-2016, 11:42 AM | #26 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Dripping Springs, Texas
Posts: 286
|
Re: Locked-up rear end
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Transmission would shift, but letting the clutch out would stall the engine. The rear wheels were locked up. Remove the rear end and check torque tube before cracking open the differential.
__________________
The pursuit of excellence is healthy and rewarding. The pursuit of perfection is frustrating, neurotic and a terrible waste of time. |
04-19-2016, 05:03 PM | #27 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Columbiana,OH
Posts: 461
|
Re: Locked-up rear end
UPDATE! Returned today to lower/roll out rear end assembly. We found catastrophic failure of universal joint. Easy fix, back on the road this afternoon. Check out the photos.
Thanks for all of the responses! |
04-19-2016, 05:07 PM | #28 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mpls, MN
Posts: 27,582
|
Re: Locked-up rear end
You sure did luck out.
Is this what happens when you don't pack the cavity full of Mystik JT-6 High Temp grease? |
04-19-2016, 05:09 PM | #29 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Land of Lincoln
Posts: 3,138
|
Re: Locked-up rear end
Wow you got to quit dumping the clutch when your leaving tree at the drag strip !! :-)
|
04-19-2016, 05:30 PM | #30 |
BANNED
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bucks County, PA
Posts: 11,454
|
Re: Locked-up rear end
Thanks for the update ... That's good news
|
02-19-2022, 07:03 PM | #31 | |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: AZ
Posts: 31
|
Re: Locked-up rear end
Quote:
With the car up on jack stands front and back, I placed the car in 3rd and the Mitchell O/D in LOW to see if I turned the engine the rear wheels would move but couldn't get it to budge by hand. I tried the car and O/D both in NEUTRAL too to see if I could spin the rear end but that didn't work either. Curious if there is some binding at the ring and pinion and if I shouldn't start the car and engage the gears? I noticed that you need special tools and presses, etc. to perform a rear-end rebuild. I own the puller kit, but not all of the special tools necessary to repair the rear end. Thoughts on why the installation of the O/D would lead to the rear end locking up? Doesn't make sense. |
|
02-20-2022, 12:10 PM | #32 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 235
|
Re: Locked-up rear end
Pull the tower first
|
|
|
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) |
|