Metal Stitching my Block

[Bob Bidonde]

In my opinion, the JB Weld fix you have is not well done. The cracks need to be stop holed. That is, find the ends of the cracks and drill a 0.06" diameter hole through the wall. Cracks only occur where there is tension 90 degrees to the crack direction, so the stress in block is trying to spread the crack apart. Also, it is a good idea to use a quality stop leak in the coolant. The JB Weld should fill the crack and spread across it as if you are filling a dent.

[DJ S]

Originally Posted by jb-ob

Describe 'not a good candidate' ?

Shame you are so far away from Frank Casey in Millbury, Ma.

Metal stitched my '28 block while I waited in his drive way ("What the hell you want to drive all the way back here?"). Magnaflux and pressure tested. The job was so beautiful it was a shame to paint over it.

Sitting in his shop was a five cylinder Cat engine with a connecting rod thru the block. He ground it square, cut another piece of cast iron and stitched the two together.

Amazing lost talent.

I was going to say the same thing. Frank Casey in Millbury, MA is the man for this.... A true master of the craft. If you're dead-set on fixing this block, try to arrange logistics with someone in MA who can help get this block to Frank.

Otherwise, you'll need to find someone who can weld that. That's quite the crack, not something a first-timer can lock-and-stitch.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Gene F

Brent, so does this make the babbit fall out?

At 400° not likely. Generally it will need to be in excess of 500° to become fluid, and above 600 to begin the melting process. Naturally these numbers all depend on the quality and type of soft metal used.

Originally Posted by psimet

Looking at it again and remembering the stitching process I am thinking it's not a good candidate for stitching.

Yes, you are correct. IMO this would not be a good candidate for stitching as all it will do is make the crack travel further, and push the outer portion of the water jacket outward but not under compression.

[alexiskai]

Originally Posted by psimet

I have concerns on whether or not the exhaust side of the block can be adequately cleaned up and decked clean enough to seal well. I currently use the glands and some sealant to help.

I did a video a few years ago showing how the JB Weld product Brent suggests can be used to repair pitting around the exhaust ports. I drive the car in the video weekly and the seal is still good.

[Richard Knight]

This is my spin on this situation. Your family history with this car is the most important thing, called provenance. To me this is extremely important. Next there is absolutely no way to correctly make any permanent repair on the block with the engine on the car. It has to come out. Whether it can be pinned or not I would leave that up to someone like John Casey. I have repaired many cracks with pinning. I have used 100s of pins. John has probably used thousands. That is a nasty crack. I don't think that crack is pinable. I would not weld it as it would cause more cracks in the heat affected zone 90 degrees to the repair weld. I have seen many repairs and magnafluxed hundreds of blocks. With the block out and upside down possiblr a jb weld high temp high strength could be a permanent repair. I have soldered countless model A blocks cracked in the water jacket. Using special cast iron tinning Flux it is a metal permanent repair for a non pressure water jacket. Last thing there is a sealer approved for use on the m1 that is amazing. Will have to got out and look at the can for the brand name. OR. Get another block and just keep the original. I would fix the original and put it back in.if

[psimet]

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Originally Posted by alexiskai

I did a video a few years ago showing how the JB Weld product Brent suggests can be used to repair pitting around the exhaust ports. I drive the car in the video weekly and the seal is still good.

I was not aware of this product. Thanks to you and BRENT in 10-uh-C

I found a picture of the port area with the manifolds off from a couple of years ago.

[psimet]

Originally Posted by Bob Bidonde

In my opinion, the JB Weld fix you have is not well done. The cracks need to be stop holed. That is, find the ends of the cracks and drill a 0.06" diameter hole through the wall. Cracks only occur where there is tension 90 degrees to the crack direction, so the stress in block is trying to spread the crack apart. Also, it is a good idea to use a quality stop leak in the coolant. The JB Weld should fill the crack and spread across it as if you are filling a dent.

Yeah - always a possibility but I haven't shown the final patch for a reason - because this second time I did it I took the approach "I will be damned if it leaks again" and it's not pretty but it's on there and and it's thick and it's spread about.

Getting end holes drilled - I couldn't get a drill bit in but I did use a carbide burr to in effect cut a relief at all of the ends of the crack.

Getting it out of the car is the only way I will try this approach as I can actually get it into my actual shop and use real tools instead of stuff I have at home.

Leads me to a few questions -

1.I don't get the impression these are that heavy - moveable by 2 people?

2.Is it really worth it for me to just pull it and try and patch this again or am I throwing in the towel and tearing down the engine? That means getting it out to a machine shop, etc. (I am sure the guys in the club have resources to help with that).

3. I am fairly familiar with the Burtz engine. I am in the group on Facebook, following the videos, etc. I'm getting the impression these are ending up being $$$. I see blocks go for as little as a few hundred needed rebuild. I see an occasional sitting after rebuilt engine go for $400-$700 ...but no one really talks about engine prices. I understand why as there are a ton of variables but at this point I really don't know what a decent rebuilt engine cost range should be. I mean if we're talking less than $1k then sign me up and then I'll figure out the current one. If we're talking $5k then maybe I want to think about it.

Listen I own a few companies in the cycling industry so I am acutely aware of how expensive "hobbies" can be but I have also learned and taught my customers that a couple hundred every now and then is a helluva lot easier to swallow than a couple grand every now and then. I may end up at the same place expenditure wise but its how many chunks that make the difference

[Gene F]

Originally Posted by Richard Knight

This is my spin on this situation. Your family history with this car is the most important thing, called provenance. To me this is extremely important. Next there is absolutely no way to correctly make any permanent repair on the block with the engine on the car. It has to come out. Whether it can be pinned or not I would leave that up to someone like John Casey. I have repaired many cracks with pinning. I have used 100s of pins. John has probably used thousands. That is a nasty crack. I don't think that crack is pinable. I would not weld it as it would cause more cracks in the heat affected zone 90 degrees to the repair weld. I have seen many repairs and magnafluxed hundreds of blocks. With the block out and upside down possiblr a jb weld high temp high strength could be a permanent repair. I have soldered countless model A blocks cracked in the water jacket. Using special cast iron tinning Flux it is a metal permanent repair for a non pressure water jacket. Last thing there is a sealer approved for use on the m1 that is amazing. Will have to got out and look at the can for the brand name. OR. Get another block and just keep the original. I would fix the original and put it back in.if

I have heard of using radiator solder....

[Kurt in NJ]

When I first saw the picture of the crack it looked a lot like the area was tinned like it had been soldered
If the area is tinned and the tinning was redone to full coverage of the crack and the area near the crack then a piece of copper wire tapped into the crack and soldered over

I have used stranded wire along with jb weld —- unwind the strands some and work in jb weld before stuffing into a jb weld coated crack as a filler

[ronn]

3. I am fairly familiar with the Burtz engine. I am in the group on Facebook, following the videos, etc. I'm getting the impression these are ending up being $$$. I see blocks go for as little as a few hundred needed rebuild. I see an occasional sitting after rebuilt engine go for $400-$700 ...but no one really talks about engine prices. I understand why as there are a ton of variables but at this point I really don't know what a decent rebuilt engine cost range should be. I mean if we're talking less than $1k then sign me up and then I'll figure out the current one. If we're talking $5k then maybe I want to think about it.



since no 2 people are of the exact same opinion, I must say that I value Brents opinion immensely- and you should too. He does this day in and day out and understands the complications. with that said, as I previously mentioned, why chase a nut down a rat hole?
on prices, Burtz engine will set you back close to 10k, out of the question as you mention. A good rebuilt block can be had for about 4k, again as you mention out of the question. I have bought a few motors local in the past on CL for around 250-350. that turned out to be good motors. Are you taking a chance? no more then to keep patching your engine and hoping for diff results....


even if you have to swap out a motor or three, you should be into it for no more then 1000. or so. That is the way to go with your car. You can then have fun practicing welding your motor or even eventually having a professional go at it.


what my 2 cents are worth.

[jack backer]

Belzona products.. high quality workable two part epoxy.

https://www.belzona.com/en/index.aspx

[Model "A" Fords]

I used Rons' Machine shop, antique engine rebuilders in Shandon Ohio. ronsmachineshop.com

My brother Rick has been a mechanic all his life and started working on model "A"s over sixty years ago. We visited Rons' booth at Hershey a few years ago and were very impressed. Rick asked all the questions including the ones he already knew the answers to and they came through with flying colors.
With Rick satisfied, I sent my 1930 Fordoor numbers correct engine. I wanted to keep the original block but it had some cracks in it. I was told they could repair by welding as they have done for many engines over the years. It seemed a no brainer and now have my engine like new again.
Possibly they could just repair your cracked block leaving the rest to do on your own. An email or phone call may put you at ease.
Hope all works out.

[jimTN]

A good welder using rods for cast iron could fix that after it was v'd out and clean. The good rods for that do not require pre heating, just short beads at a time, cleaning each time.

[psimet]

As with all things I adjust my expectations with the data I receive. I am starting to lean towards a short block rebuild that seems to run in the neighborhood of $3k or so (I'll save my paper route money).

[Gene F]

Originally Posted by Model "A" Fords

I used Rons' Machine shop, antique engine rebuilders in Shandon Ohio. ronsmachineshop.com

My brother Rick has been a mechanic all his life and started working on model "A"s over sixty years ago. We visited Rons' booth at Hershey a few years ago and were very impressed. Rick asked all the questions including the ones he already knew the answers to and they came through with flying colors.
With Rick satisfied, I sent my 1930 Fordoor numbers correct engine. I wanted to keep the original block but it had some cracks in it. I was told they could repair by welding as they have done for many engines over the years. It seemed a no brainer and now have my engine like new again.
Possibly they could just repair your cracked block leaving the rest to do on your own. An email or phone call may put you at ease.
Hope all works out.

Hmmmm, when was this?

[Synchro909]

You need some good Aussie knowhow - and deep pockets. https://static1.squarespace.com/stat...eb21+clear.pdf

[Pete]

First off you need to understand that there is not a crack or broken piece of cast iron that can not be welded or repaired with screws. (stitching)
Something to remember also is never let anyone use nickel rod to repair your cast iron.
Ancient technology.

The hardest part of quality cast iron repair is finding someone that has kept up with the technology.
Just so you will know when you have found that person, he will be able to construct a complete new block from welding rod if he is offered enough money.

[nkaminar]

Pete, The nickel rod has worked well for me but I admit that it was years ago. So if the nickel rod is old technology, how is cast iron welded today?

Old man learning new tricks.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by nkaminar

Pete, The nickel rod has worked well for me but I admit that it was years ago. So if the nickel rod is old technology, how is cast iron welded today?

Old man learning new tricks.

There are several ways but HERE is my go-to.

[nkaminar]

Thanks, Brent. I am now educated. Looks like a good candidate to fix Psimet's block.