The Ford Barn

trainguy · 02-02-2013, 11:47 AM

I read in the Borg-warner OD instrustions"do not use hypoid gear oil iin the transmision"So I drained the trans a put in 50W non detergent oil.The trans now wines in OD.I was at a meeting of the local EFV8 club and ask several knowleable members what they used?All of them answered 90-149 gear oil and have been using it for years wwith no problems.What is the answer Ford Barners? Thanks Phil

jkeesey · 02-02-2013, 12:00 PM

Maybe 600w. 90-140 is still hypoid. Remember 600w is not actually the weight of 600. The stuff macs sells is pretty thin and compares to the thickness of hypoid. Hypoid from what I've heard is not very safe for the yellow metals that why they don't want you to use it. I have the stuff in stock at my shop if you wanted to see the difference.

Kurt in NJ · 02-02-2013, 03:50 PM

The local auto store sent GL1 gear oil to the shop where I work ---so it should be available, I caught it just before it was going into a hypoid diff --neither the auto parts store or any of the other workers where I work knew the difference --and it wasn't in the stores computer with notes about use ---they had been selling it for hypoid use

600W steam cyl oil is for worm gears and steam use
the Mobile 600 series of gear oils is for spur, bevel,etc and ok with yellow metals ---this is now synthetic and gotten more $$, look in the industrial oils area, look at use listings

Gl1 gear oils should be good for your use

trainguy · 02-02-2013, 04:15 PM

GL1,I check into it.Thanks Phil

flathead4rd · 02-02-2013, 04:36 PM

Just a reminder to fill both sections of the trans. The OD section should have a separate plug even though the gear lube does eventually drain into it from the main case.

charles in east texas · 02-02-2013, 05:14 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Whatever oil you decide to use, take the fill plug out of the transmission, then add oil very, very ,very slowly into the overdrive unit until oil runs out the transmission plug hole. Charles

rotorwrench · 02-02-2013, 07:17 PM

The old SAE rating for the gear lube used way back when was GL-3. It was superseded by GL-4. GL-4 is a light pressure hypoid lube but it is as close as you can get to what was used in the early 50s. GL-1 has no pressure additives and it will work for a transmission OK. Lubriplate makes a gear lube with the GL-1 rating in their SPO series of lubricants. SPO-277 is equivalent to SAE-140. The GL-5 that is the most common gear lube today has a fair amount of high pressure additives since it is a heavy hypoid oil for rear axles.

I'd look for GL-1 or GL-4 at your local distrubutor of lubricants and figure on changing the oil a little more often to keep any build up af acids or moisture from causing corrosion with the yellow metals in the overdrive unit or gearbox. The sprag unit in the back of the overdrive housing can't take high pressure additives or it can slip but it can take some. GL-3 had some in it and GL-4 is only a little more. GL-5 has a lot more.

100 grade SAE 50 aircraft motor oil in a mineral state like Aeroshell 100 with the blue label is equivalent to SAE 90 GL-1 gear lube and should work OK for winter use but might leak a bit more in the summer. It also might not dampen some gear noise as well as a heavier oil would.

I wouldn't expect an overdrive to whine much but it does have a planetary gear set in there and they are helical gears that don't normally make much noise. I hope it goes away with a heavier grade oil but if it doesn't you might have something going on in there. Either that or the rear axle has a bit too much backlash or something and the sound is being amplified forward. Generally a rear axle with problems will make it's noise under load and quiet up as soon as you let off the load and coast.

31chevy · 02-03-2013, 08:35 AM

I have a Borg warner in my 31 che$#%%#. The book said #40 oil or #50 in extreme heat or usage not hypoid. I found this info & will try to post it.

Cecil/WV · 02-03-2013, 08:54 AM

I find that the quickest way to fill it is to fill at both points until full. It is very hard to put in the rear section because the drum on the planetary gear is right over the hole. I fill the front first.

42merc · 02-03-2013, 08:59 AM

I have had many cars equipped with Borg Warner overdrives. Never used anything but 80-90 gear lube in the OD portion of the trans. These cars have all been drivers, zero problems. Remember, this is 60 year old technology, don't over think it.

trainguy · 02-03-2013, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 31chevy

I have a Borg warner in my 31 che$#%%#. The book said #40 oil or #50 in extreme heat or usage not hypoid. I found this info & will try to post it.

These are the instructions that lead to my question.Phil

42merc · 02-03-2013, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trainguy

These are the instructions that lead to my question.Phil

My lube info comes from Motor's manuals & a '49-'50-'51 Ford shop manual. All say SAE 80-90 wt. OD gets an extra pint.

rotorwrench · 02-03-2013, 01:46 PM

My 49/51 Lincoln/Mercury O/H manual is kind of confusing on the subject. They list mild EP (GL-3) or multi-purpose lube (likely GL-1) and in SAE 80 winter & summer but SAE 90 may used ( they don't say for what?). In practice, I'm sure just about everything was used.

In the Overdrive Overhaul section of the manual it has a statement "Never use a hypoid axle type lubricant." It also has the SAE-80 instructions with SAE-90 for hard conditions & hot climates. This type of info confuses the mechanic and operator even more. They don't explain why not to use a hypoid type lube. Having run helicopters that use sprag freewheeling units & clutches, there were similar warnings. Tricresyle Phosphate or TCP is a high pressure additive that was sometimes used depending on the company that made the lube back in the day. Other EP additives were sulpher based that could cause deterioration of yellow metals so this confuses things even more.

The only key word that I picked up about the hypoid oils warning in the manual was the word "axle". To me that indicates GL-5 which was expressly made for hypoid type rear axle gears. Mild EP was GL-3 so you just naturally gravitate toward the lubes with either mild EP or no EP at all.

Any Lubricant is better than No Lubricant and that is a cold hard fact.

trainguy · 02-03-2013, 04:17 PM

Iwill try Tractor Supply for GL-1 or GL-3,Thanks Phil

1937pickup · 02-03-2013, 09:33 PM

Napa has GL-1 at least they did-I have that in my tranny but after reading these posts I am going to drain it and put in a modern 90 weight gear oil.

Cecil/WV · 02-03-2013, 11:03 PM

I muse synthetic in my OD. 6 yrs and 20,000 mile and all is well. I had it out last year to seal some leaks and it showed no wear on anything.

trainguy · 02-04-2013, 10:54 AM

Napa had 90w GL1.Thanks FB Phil

jdl · 02-04-2013, 02:08 PM

Iv'e used Sta-Lube GL-4 Hypoid Gear Oil for over twenty years with no problems.. here is a picture of what is printed on the back of the gallon jug.. (used in my 3 speed o.d & Rear diff.)

Old Redneck · 02-04-2013, 02:17 PM

I use 90 in my Overdrive and if you use heaver oil it won't shift in overdrive until it warms up. The overdrive does not like heavy oil.

Vic Piano · 02-04-2013, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redneck

I use 90 in my Overdrive and if you use heaver oil it won't shift in overdrive until it warms up. The overdrive does not like heavy oil.

Ken, are you using 90 weight in the Columbia as well as in a BW O/D unit?

02-02-2013, 11:47 AM	#1
trainguy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Lehighton Pa Posts: 1,085	What lube used for overdrive I read in the Borg-warner OD instrustions"do not use hypoid gear oil iin the transmision"So I drained the trans a put in 50W non detergent oil.The trans now wines in OD.I was at a meeting of the local EFV8 club and ask several knowleable members what they used?All of them answered 90-149 gear oil and have been using it for years wwith no problems.What is the answer Ford Barners? Thanks Phil

02-02-2013, 12:00 PM	#2
jkeesey Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Glenmoore Pa Posts: 1,644	Re: What lube used for overdrive Maybe 600w. 90-140 is still hypoid. Remember 600w is not actually the weight of 600. The stuff macs sells is pretty thin and compares to the thickness of hypoid. Hypoid from what I've heard is not very safe for the yellow metals that why they don't want you to use it. I have the stuff in stock at my shop if you wanted to see the difference.

02-02-2013, 03:50 PM	#3
Kurt in NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: on the Littlefield Posts: 6,159	Re: What lube used for overdrive The local auto store sent GL1 gear oil to the shop where I work ---so it should be available, I caught it just before it was going into a hypoid diff --neither the auto parts store or any of the other workers where I work knew the difference --and it wasn't in the stores computer with notes about use ---they had been selling it for hypoid use 600W steam cyl oil is for worm gears and steam use the Mobile 600 series of gear oils is for spur, bevel,etc and ok with yellow metals ---this is now synthetic and gotten more $$, look in the industrial oils area, look at use listings Gl1 gear oils should be good for your use

02-02-2013, 05:14 PM	#6
charles in east texas Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Winnsboro, Texas Posts: 463	Re: What lube used for overdrive Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Whatever oil you decide to use, take the fill plug out of the transmission, then add oil very, very ,very slowly into the overdrive unit until oil runs out the transmission plug hole. Charles

02-02-2013, 07:17 PM	#7
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,440	Re: What lube used for overdrive The old SAE rating for the gear lube used way back when was GL-3. It was superseded by GL-4. GL-4 is a light pressure hypoid lube but it is as close as you can get to what was used in the early 50s. GL-1 has no pressure additives and it will work for a transmission OK. Lubriplate makes a gear lube with the GL-1 rating in their SPO series of lubricants. SPO-277 is equivalent to SAE-140. The GL-5 that is the most common gear lube today has a fair amount of high pressure additives since it is a heavy hypoid oil for rear axles. I'd look for GL-1 or GL-4 at your local distrubutor of lubricants and figure on changing the oil a little more often to keep any build up af acids or moisture from causing corrosion with the yellow metals in the overdrive unit or gearbox. The sprag unit in the back of the overdrive housing can't take high pressure additives or it can slip but it can take some. GL-3 had some in it and GL-4 is only a little more. GL-5 has a lot more. 100 grade SAE 50 aircraft motor oil in a mineral state like Aeroshell 100 with the blue label is equivalent to SAE 90 GL-1 gear lube and should work OK for winter use but might leak a bit more in the summer. It also might not dampen some gear noise as well as a heavier oil would. I wouldn't expect an overdrive to whine much but it does have a planetary gear set in there and they are helical gears that don't normally make much noise. I hope it goes away with a heavier grade oil but if it doesn't you might have something going on in there. Either that or the rear axle has a bit too much backlash or something and the sound is being amplified forward. Generally a rear axle with problems will make it's noise under load and quiet up as soon as you let off the load and coast. Last edited by rotorwrench; 02-02-2013 at 07:26 PM.

02-02-2013, 04:15 PM	#4
trainguy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Lehighton Pa Posts: 1,085	Re: What lube used for overdrive GL1,I check into it.Thanks Phil

02-02-2013, 04:36 PM	#5
flathead4rd Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Michigan Posts: 505	Re: What lube used for overdrive Just a reminder to fill both sections of the trans. The OD section should have a separate plug even though the gear lube does eventually drain into it from the main case.

02-03-2013, 08:54 AM	#9
Cecil/WV Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Gerrardstown, WV Posts: 2,266	Re: What lube used for overdrive I find that the quickest way to fill it is to fill at both points until full. It is very hard to put in the rear section because the drum on the planetary gear is right over the hole. I fill the front first.

02-03-2013, 08:59 AM	#10
42merc Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Buchanan, MI Posts: 676	Re: What lube used for overdrive I have had many cars equipped with Borg Warner overdrives. Never used anything but 80-90 gear lube in the OD portion of the trans. These cars have all been drivers, zero problems. Remember, this is 60 year old technology, don't over think it.

02-03-2013, 01:46 PM	#13
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,440	Re: What lube used for overdrive My 49/51 Lincoln/Mercury O/H manual is kind of confusing on the subject. They list mild EP (GL-3) or multi-purpose lube (likely GL-1) and in SAE 80 winter & summer but SAE 90 may used ( they don't say for what?). In practice, I'm sure just about everything was used. In the Overdrive Overhaul section of the manual it has a statement "Never use a hypoid axle type lubricant." It also has the SAE-80 instructions with SAE-90 for hard conditions & hot climates. This type of info confuses the mechanic and operator even more. They don't explain why not to use a hypoid type lube. Having run helicopters that use sprag freewheeling units & clutches, there were similar warnings. Tricresyle Phosphate or TCP is a high pressure additive that was sometimes used depending on the company that made the lube back in the day. Other EP additives were sulpher based that could cause deterioration of yellow metals so this confuses things even more. The only key word that I picked up about the hypoid oils warning in the manual was the word "axle". To me that indicates GL-5 which was expressly made for hypoid type rear axle gears. Mild EP was GL-3 so you just naturally gravitate toward the lubes with either mild EP or no EP at all. Any Lubricant is better than No Lubricant and that is a cold hard fact.

02-03-2013, 04:17 PM	#14
trainguy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Lehighton Pa Posts: 1,085	Re: What lube used for overdrive Iwill try Tractor Supply for GL-1 or GL-3,Thanks Phil

02-03-2013, 09:33 PM	#15
1937pickup Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 586	Re: What lube used for overdrive Napa has GL-1 at least they did-I have that in my tranny but after reading these posts I am going to drain it and put in a modern 90 weight gear oil.

02-03-2013, 11:03 PM	#16
Cecil/WV Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Gerrardstown, WV Posts: 2,266	Re: What lube used for overdrive I muse synthetic in my OD. 6 yrs and 20,000 mile and all is well. I had it out last year to seal some leaks and it showed no wear on anything.

02-04-2013, 10:54 AM	#17
trainguy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Lehighton Pa Posts: 1,085	Re: What lube used for overdrive Napa had 90w GL1.Thanks FB Phil

02-04-2013, 02:08 PM	#18
jdl Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: California Central Coast Posts: 931	Re: What lube used for overdrive Iv'e used Sta-Lube GL-4 Hypoid Gear Oil for over twenty years with no problems.. here is a picture of what is printed on the back of the gallon jug.. (used in my 3 speed o.d & Rear diff.)

02-04-2013, 02:17 PM	#19
Old Redneck Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Waynesburg,Pa. Posts: 1,910	Re: What lube used for overdrive I use 90 in my Overdrive and if you use heaver oil it won't shift in overdrive until it warms up. The overdrive does not like heavy oil.