Timing with light and vacuum gauge questions

[borjawil]

63 f100 292 y block, stock 2 barrel autolite - stock distributor, pertronix 2 ignitor and coil

I know the dampener may slip so I have a timing sticker to put on. 1)How would I go about getting this on correctly if the dampener has slipped? I'm assuming put #1 at TDC and lining up the 0 mark on sticker to the point.

Once I find my zero mark, to set base timing I plug my dizzy vacuum diaphragm and the vacuum line that went to it. Start the engine. With timing light on #1 plug wire, I line up my advance. I've heard these engines like about 28-32 total advance, but without the diaphragm vacuum for advance connected, I'm assuming I'm only setting the base advance and have to add in whatever the dizzy advance is to make total advance, correct?

So I've seen people set about 13-16 advance at this point. Then rev the engine to about 3-3500 to get the total advance and turn the dizzy to set the total. If I'm using a timing light with an advance gauge, I set the gauge to say 16 degrees, hit the button, and line up the 0 mark.

2) what's the point of setting base timing if I'm going to change it later with total? Unless this is more for changing the springs if equipped?

Now I've also heard to set the timing without a light and just use a gauge. For y blocks some where around 20-25hg vacuum. I have a set of gauges I use for motorcycles to balance them at idle. Using one of the 4 should work. 3) Where would I connect it to, the dizzy diaphragm or the line that goes to the diaphragm?

4) do I ever connect the vacuum line to the dizzy when checking the timing at any of the above mentioned points?


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[borjawil]

Here's a link explaining vacuum timing for anyone Interested. Also explains setting the mixture screws with a vacuum gauge.

https://automotivemileposts.com/gara...%20the%20gauge.

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[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by borjawil

63 f100 292 y block, stock 2 barrel autolite - stock distributor, pertronix 2 ignitor and coil

I know the dampener may slip so I have a timing sticker to put on. 1)How would I go about getting this on correctly if the dampener has slipped? I'm assuming put #1 at TDC and lining up the 0 mark on sticker to the point.

You really can't do much until you know the integrity of the balancer. You determine true TDC with a piston stop and good timing set. If the balancer ring has loosened and moved, it will keep on moving and possibly fail.

As for now, you can set the timing with a vacuum gauge (if the valve lash/timing is correct and you have good steady manifold vacuum). You merely advance the DIST (with vacuum advance signal plugged off) until reaching the highest reading and then back it off a little. Drive and see if there is any pre-ignition/hard start. Same for balancing a CARB, highest vacuum reading achieved.

As for advance, mech or vacuum, component integrity is a must and the curves must be matched to vehicle use (or OEM).

Then you can go fancy,

[54vicky]

as tool said you need to start with a good damper.it is like building a house with no foundation.if you have never seen the damage that a damper coming off.if it moved there is a reason.

[borjawil]

Doesn't look like the dampener has moved. #1 is at tdc when the 0 lines up.

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[Talkwrench]

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Y block total timing is usually 36 -38 depending on fuel etc, to get initial timing up to 13 - 16 you'll need to modify your timing plate [a good idea]. The rate at which it comes on you'll need to change your spring to something the Mr Gasket 925D {?} For a relatively standard setup it should be all in by 2500 rpm ..NOW when you add you vacuum advance on cruise you should be pushing about 50 degrees

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Talkwrench

Y block total timing is usually 36 -38 depending on fuel etc, to get initial timing up to 13 - 16 you'll need to modify your timing plate [a good idea]. The rate at which it comes on you'll need to change your spring to something the Mr Gasket 925D {?}

For a relatively standard setup it should be all in by 2500 rpm ..NOW when you add you vacuum advance on cruise you should be pushing about 50 degrees

GOOD INFO.

Ideally, the DIST should be put on a DIST MACHINE to come to the best curve. It can be done with a timing tape, tach and light but the Y-BLOCK dist being @ the rear of the engine will work you to death. I would be hesitant to power time until I knew the condition of the DIST.

Also be good to confirm correct manifold vacuum (vacuum leak - valve timing - fuel curve). Then plot manifold vacuum using a gauge while driving the vehicle.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by borjawil

Doesn't look like the dampener has moved. #1 is at tdc when the 0 lines up.

It would be best (IMO) to confirm TDC with a piston stop IMO. You can't take anything for granted.

Now all of this is for one wanting top performance from the engine, whether OEM or HP. Otherwise, one would depend on OEM settings.

[borjawil]

Well I have a new dizzy as well. Will look into a tdc stop. Nothing high performance wise. Getting a tach hooked up today. Timing with a vacuum gauge as well.

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[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by borjawil

Well I have a new dizzy as well. Will look into a tdc stop.

You have a new DIST (aftermarket or a rebuilt)? If rebuilt, what is the PN on it? Have you returned the OEM DIST for core charge yet?

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by borjawil

Well I have a new dizzy as well. Will look into a tdc stop. Nothing high performance wise. Getting a tach hooked up today. Timing with a vacuum gauge as well.

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

You have a new DIST (aftermarket or a rebuilt)? If rebuilt, what is the PN on it? Have you returned the OEM DIST for core charge yet?

borjawil here is one reason why KULTULZ could be asking if you got a rebuilt distributor (other than knowing what it may need to tune it).

Depending on the style and source of your replacement distributor, it may be the wrong one to fit the engine.

Some of the auto parts 'exchange' distributors are rebuilt using core distributors that are not from a Y-block. The main shafts are too short and don't engage the drive gear on the camshaft or the oil pump drive correctly.
If this is the case, distributor damage is certain and engine failure can also result.

This photo shows the correct length of a Y-block distributor shaft. A few thousandths under 5 inches from the shoulder to the bottom of the driven gear, and one inch of shaft below the gear, to engage the oil pump drive.
If the one you have now does not measure the same, return it ASAP.
.

[borjawil]

I have what I believe is the stock one (currently installed) and a new aftermarket. Working on setting valves right now. Was told to set them at .019. was also told to set them at .020 cold as the .019 is the spec when warm.

When I've set valves on older bikes it's always cold. Not warmed up. Also there are locking nuts on the adjuster bolts. I only have an adjuster bolt not locking nut. Is this normal? They're tight to turn so wasn't sure.

Once I get the valves set correctly, I'll be putting in the new dizzy. It's a knock off msd one. Wanted to see how it would perform first, before I did anything with the stock one.

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[borjawil]

Originally Posted by dmsfrr

borjawil here is one reason why KULTULZ could be asking about the distributor (other than knowing what it may need to tune it).

Depending on the style and source of your replacement distributor, it may be the wrong one to fit the engine.

Some of the auto parts 'exchange' distributors are rebuilt using core distributors that are not from a Y-block. The main shafts are too short and don't engage the drive gear on the camshaft or the oil pump drive correctly. If this is the case, distributor damage is certain and engine failure can also result.

This photo shows the correct length of a Y-block distributor shaft. A few thousandths under 5 inches from the shoulder to the bottom of the driven gear, and one inch of shaft below the gear.
If the one you have now does not measure the same, return it ASAP.
.

I'm aware of the non fitting rebuilt issue. I'll double check my measurement on the new one though too.

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[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by borjawil

. . . Also there are locking nuts on the adjuster bolts. I only have an adjuster bolt not locking nut. Is this normal? They're tight to turn so wasn't sure. . . .

Rocker arm adjusting screws... Ford changed the style in about late '56 or for the '57 model year. (???)

The ones with lock nuts and a screwdriver slot on the adjusting screw are the earlier version. The self-locking ones are the later version.
Also check the casting number on the upper side of each rocker arm. There look to be four different types and a high performance version with an ECG prefix.

http://ford-y-block.com/rockerarm.htm

http://ford-y-block.com/technical.htm
.

[borjawil]

Yea I have the bottom ones shown for the rockers.

From bottom of new dizzy shaft to the worm gear is .971. now there's a raised portion around the gear in the center. If we're talking teeth of the gear then .988.

From seat to gear teeth (from where the .988 ended) I have 4.933. unless you include that lip mentioned earlier but I suspect not.

Thoughts on those measurements?

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[borjawil]

Went on to timing an tuning. Keeping rpms around 500-600, adjust the distributor to about 20lbs vacuum, then dropped it a lb. Turn mix screws all the way in then backed out 1.5 turns. Proceeded to turn them in until vacuum wouldn't raise any more, then backed off about an 1/8 turn dropping vac about .5lb. checked where they were at which is about .75 turns. Is that normal for them to be turned in so much?

Turning out richens right?

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[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by borjawil

. . .
From bottom of new dizzy shaft to the worm gear is .971. now there's a raised portion around the gear in the center. If we're talking teeth of the gear then .988.
From seat to gear teeth (from where the .988 ended) I have 4.933. unless you include that lip mentioned earlier but I suspect not.
Thoughts on those measurements?

Is there enough end play that the shaft can pull down very slightly and gain the difference?
The 'exchange' distributors that are built on the wrong cores are too short by noticeably more, maybe even as much as 1/4 inch. I've not seen one in-person.
What you have should be correct.

The raised portion on the bottom of the driven gear rides on a machined ledge inside the block at the bottom of the distributor hole, photo 1. This keeps the cam & distributor gears meshed correctly.
When the driven gear is too high the pitch of the cam gear pulls down on the shaft and trashes the upper end of the shaft bushing inside the distributor, and/or grinds the fly-weight hardware into the bottom of the distributor housing.
https://www.ctci.org/distributor-installation/
.

[borjawil]

It would appear there is enough play to make up the difference.

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[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by borjawil

Turning out richens right?

Turning in enriches - Turning out leans

!!! INCORRECT INFORMATION !!! -

Turning In Leans - Turning Out Enriches

(Sal caught me again)

[scicala]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

Turning in enriches - Turning out leans

I think you have it backwards.

Sal