06-02-2021, 12:55 PM | #1 |
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Yblock valves
Were the valve seats on a 1957 yblock hardened? I have one it was advertised as a 312 but my bet is it’s a 292.
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06-02-2021, 01:24 PM | #2 |
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Re: Yblock valves
no early engines that i know of had hard seats.you dont need them anyway.
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06-02-2021, 03:16 PM | #3 |
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Re: Yblock valves
Hardened valve seats were to prevent erosion due to the lack of lead in the gas. Why would you not need them for that reason?
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06-02-2021, 03:28 PM | #4 |
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Re: Yblock valves
you can go 100,000 without them and many have.the y block book by charles morris has this to say quote do you need hardened seats.there are probably many viable arguments for installing hardened seats in cylinder heads,particularly since the abolition of leaded fuels and their lubricating properties.i have not found a need for for hardened seats in any of the engines i have assembled since the advent of unleaded fuel and i have not suffered any ill effectsbecause of it.end quote.its little more than a racket that wouldnt quit.
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06-02-2021, 03:49 PM | #5 | |
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Re: Yblock valves
Quote:
Is it a 312 or a 292? The original 312's have an aspirin sized dot on the rear flange of the crankshaft, and ECZ main bearing caps. Photos attached. http://ford-y-block.com/identify312.htm http://ford-y-block.com/crankshaftid.htm Is it really a '57 engine? Look for the engine block casting number on this chart... http://ford-y-block.com/Block%20identification.htm . |
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06-02-2021, 04:50 PM | #6 |
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Re: Yblock valves
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Very helpful information on these 312 Y Block engines. |
06-02-2021, 05:43 PM | #7 |
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Re: Yblock valves
Everything you need to know concerning hardened exhaust valve seats -
https://www.enginebuildermag.com/201...s-valve-seats/ Please feel free to take notes as there may be a pop quiz later in the week ...
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06-02-2021, 07:08 PM | #8 | |
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Re: Yblock valves
Quote:
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06-02-2021, 07:11 PM | #9 |
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Re: Yblock valves
another thing nobody talks about maybe theyve solved this is seats coming loose.i know people who woundnt use a head with seats for this reason.i took a 272 apart that ate one.
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06-02-2021, 07:33 PM | #10 | |
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Re: Yblock valves
Quote:
The 292 and 312 uses the same block and heads (heads may be different according to assembly detail). The 292 is preferable (IMO) with a 312 crank (stroker kit) as the 312 block received different machining protocols which led to problems such as cam tunnel bore sloppiness and rear seal problems..
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06-02-2021, 07:37 PM | #11 |
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Re: Yblock valves
I did not know that.
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06-02-2021, 07:46 PM | #12 |
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Re: Yblock valves
Thanks I will check the engine casting number, it will give me some clues. I don’t have the engine or tranny out so can’t check the crank or caps.
It smokes like a diesel when it starts after sitting overnight or longer. After the cloud is gone minimal if any smoke from exhaust. It doesn’t use much oil so I don’t suspect the rings but I am thinking valve seats are gone causing sloppy valves. I will do compression check sometime soon. Any other suggestions are welcome. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
06-02-2021, 08:05 PM | #13 |
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Re: Yblock valves
I had a 305 Chevy once that had a bunch of oil flakes in the heads from Quaker State. I pulled the valve covers off, and cleaned the heads. Rana coat hanger down the oil return ports. Smoking cleared up. One of the perrils of buying a used car I guess.
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06-03-2021, 05:04 AM | #14 | ||
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Re: Yblock valves
Quote:
Reading the spark plugs will give an indication of excess oil usage. Run the car in 1st and 2nd and then let off the fuel. If she smokes badly then suspect valve stem seals/stem guides. ADDENDUM - (Fr.) Quote:
What shape is the crankcase ventilation system in?
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06-03-2021, 01:50 PM | #15 |
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Re: Yblock valves
Ted Eaton (eatonbalancing.com) routinely installs hardened exhaust-valve seats when rebuilding engines. He doesn't take shortcuts because he backs his work. If your car is seldom driven, hardened seat are not necessary, as long as your existing seats are in good condition. However, I will have hardened seats installed when my engine is rebuilt. I want it done right the last time.
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06-03-2021, 01:51 PM | #16 |
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Re: Yblock valves
Great photos!
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06-03-2021, 09:31 PM | #17 |
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Re: Yblock valves
Is there any truth to the notion that Marvel Mystery Oil or lead substitute in the gas will help valve seats (in an old non-hardened engine) last longer? I'm talking about light/standard driving, not thrashing.
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06-04-2021, 07:23 AM | #18 | |
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Re: Yblock valves
Quote:
On an engine of this period, it would also depend on what modifications the engine has received over the years.
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06-04-2021, 08:19 AM | #19 |
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Re: Yblock valves
Got to jump in here. The 351C in my street rod has 147K I put on it. It came out of a 72 Ranchero, got a "rattle can" overhaul and was put in the car and run. I have no idea how many miles were on the engine when I got it from a wrecking yard in 74. No engine problems what ever. It has made several trips from Norfolk, VA to WI over the years.
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06-04-2021, 02:18 PM | #20 |
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Re: Yblock valves
The hard valve seat issue pops up on this forum every year or two. Everyone has their own opinion, so I'll throw in mine.
First, I ran an automotive machine shop for about 25 years, starting in the early 70's, and yes, we installed many stelllite or hard exhaust seats in early car engines. Not just because of the lack of lead scare, but because most of the cast in seats were sunk and distorted because the valve guides were shot and the valves walked around, hammering out the seats. SBC's from the 50's and 60's are famous for this. Y block Fords weren't as tough on guides, but both the intake and exhaust seats were intenionally cut low to begin with, so we usually replaced both just to get the valves up. Starting around 1971, Ford, along with most other manufacturers, flame hardened the ex. seats, partially to deal with the lower lead content in the gas, but also in hopes of less cracking in the seats. Bill's 351C is an example of this process. Actual hard seats were installed by the factories for various applications on some engines. All FT series (truck FE's) came with stellite ex. seats and 7/16 valve stems. Most of the industrial flatheads and a few car blocks in the late 40's came with pressed in hard seats as well. I remember rebuilding a 1958, original owner Ford C700 (COE) with an 292 HD engine. It also had facory installed hard ex. seats. The issue with a seat popping out isn't as common as some believe. It can happen from an improper installation, but more often than not, the engine has been overheated or the head cracked. Todays gas, even ethanol, is much better than the stuff in 1975. The average Y block, flathead or early sbf owner probably won't have a problem with seats/valves if they start out with good valve guides and the valve stems aren't worn out and they are properly ground. |
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