Dec. 7th comming up. who can remember ???

[keith oh]

I, (10years old) was in a movie theater when the lights came on, the manager came out on the stage and said simply,"The Japanese have bombed Pearl Harbor with many causalities and a large portion of our Navy lost. The place went totally silent, then a man behind us stood up and said, "KILL THE BASTARDS" Mom said, "Oh my God my brother is stationed there". He survived but was Killed 10 months later in the South Pacific.

[JM 35 Sedan]

In my case I wasn't born yet on 12/7/41, but based on history lessons, TV shows, and movies on the subject, I think I can imagine what it would have been like.

[Lawson Cox]

I was 10 years old, playing out in the woods, when someone came out and yelled The Japs have bombed Pearl Harbor. As Roosevelt said, A date that will live in infamy.

[Joe Immler]

God rest the souls of all who perished in WW II. The rag heads sure are lucky they weren't pulling their crap on us back in our forefathers day.

[5851a]

Originally Posted by Joe Immler

God rest the souls of all who perished in WW II. The rag heads sure are lucky they weren't pulling their crap on us back in our forefathers day.

X2 Not old enough but the stories from elders that are inconceivable by todays generations.

[BlueSunoco]

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Times three to what 5851a and Joe stated.

For love of our country, it scares the beejebbers out of me that the millenials don't know or care about U.S. History and what it means. They are not taught properly in school,,,,, by design. Grandson had US History last year as a Junior in high school and he told me that the teacher blew right over WWII, only talked briefly about it for about half an hour then back to the usual dribble they indoctrinate kids with today Stuff like 'Who do you think will win on American Idol' garbage like that. Important stuff, celebrity worship.

[Alan O'Connell]

I'm so immersed in the 1930's and 40's that I feel like I have lived through it.

[ford38v8]

I was just a toddler, born during the Battle of Britain. My personal memories of the war are limited to the blankets over the windows in San Francisco, and the VE Day parade, during which I waved my tiny flag from the window of a 2nd story apartment. All other memories were superimposed.

On a side note, I spoke with a friend who is in Oahu right now to attend his Daughter's wedding. I suggested that he attend the ceremonies at the Arizona to commemorate Peal Harbor Day. His response blew me away... His exact words:
"Oh, yeah, When was that? In the 50's sometime, wasn't it?"
What has happened to us? This guy is a retired Firefighter and is living in such ignorant bliss?

[2935ford]

I've been to Pearl Harbor and walk the monument to those still on board the U.S.S. Arizona............oil still seeping up and the names of the lost on the wall.

An emotional experience for sure!

[39topless]

Originally Posted by 2935ford

I've been to Pearl Harbor and walk the monument to those still on board the U.S.S. Arizona............oil still seeping up and the names of the lost on the wall.

An emotional experience for sure!

An experience every American should make the effort to have. Especially those who weren't around yet.

[TonyM]

Originally Posted by BlueSunoco

Times three to what 5851a and Joe stated.

For love of our country, it scares the beejebbers out of me that the millenials don't know or care about U.S. History and what it means. They are not taught properly in school,,,,, by design. .

The students are taught history with survey courses. There is a lot more than just World War II when it comes to history ( the 50 or so years leading up to World War II are incredibly important in understanding the real causes of the war). And most students HATE history. They just don't care and they DON'T make the effort to learn it. It is that simple.

I went to school a long time ago and if a boy wanted to know about WWII battles, he had to visit a library and check out the books himself. The grade school and high school history classes are survey courses--they try to pack in as much history as they can for the term. You just can't spend the whole semester on World War II.

We were taught the basics of World History for that era and then the class moved on to the next chapter. That is just the way it is. Like anything else in grade school or high school--if the student wants to learn more, then they will have to do it on their own. By the way, I am an university-trained historian (my expert field of study is the first 50 years of the 20th century) and a published history author (in print for nine years now).

Simple fact: Most students hate history.

[Mark Slight]

I was 5 years old living on the West coast my father was stationed in Southern California.

It wasn't very long before the teachers started warning us about picking anything up that looked like a ink pen. The Japanese were sending hot air balloons that fell on the West coast from Washington state to California.

They were intended to start small fires that they tracked. The intent was to later send Anthrax in those balloons to the United States!!

I'm sure you can google this for more information. (the secret history of Anthrax.)

Mark

[deuce_roadster]

Happened 9 years before I was born but my dad was on the Battleship Mississippi and had left Pearl Harbor about a month before the attack.

[JonC]

I wasn't born yet, sure wish people would stop killing and just play with old cars if they have time on their hands.

[swoopNZ]

" December the 7th 1941 - a date which will live in infamy."
Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

[Ol' Ron]

I was 8 years old and was in Fox Lake Ill.We lived in Chicago and came out to Fox lake to check on Grama's summer cottage. I was with my Dad and Uncle Danny, he had been drafted the year before and was scheduled to be discharged just before Christman. I think it was the first time I heard the "F" word.

[corvette8n]

I wasn't born yet but I did get to visit the Arizona Memorial in 2007, it was a very solemn and moving experience.

[Barry-ct]

I wasn't born yet, Dad did not know Mom until 1945, But I am fascinated by anything WW II and at age 61, I still find books to read on it. New facts come up all the time. Can't get enough of American history. I Sailed right through the course with A+'s and it was the easiest high school course for me! Don't ask about English....... Too bad the dates and stuff is no longer recognized by the newspapers. All they want is advertisers to fill their few pages. They're not "newspapers" anymore.

[fourfords]

I live in the next County over from San Bernardino. Needless to say, this whole area is quite taken aback by this week's terrorist act. For many, this is another day of Infamy. I am angry and sad at the same time.

As an aside, i understand the couple who murdered these people had a six month old. And dropped off the child at the Grandmother's house just prior to the attack. This mind set is completely beyond anything I could ever imagine. Maybe some of the older folks of the World War Two Era can educate this current generation and prepare them for what might be in store.

[coup34]

I was 7, on our way home from grandparents house, Dad liked to listen to the 5 pm news. Heard it then. He had just bought a 40 tudor that fall,radio, heater and 2-speed axle. Great car!!!! A year or so later he jacked up the car, put on blocks, used the tires on the Model A, he was a rural mail carrier and did not know when he could get another car, and tires were hard to come by. Remember well!!!

[Ol' Ron]

History is a great teacher, unfortunately, not many people pay any attention to it. Especially politicians.

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by Ol' Ron

History is a great teacher, unfortunately, not many people pay any attention to it. Especially politicians.

Best quote of the day!

[FrankWest]

Not born until 1949, but we have the JFK assassination and the 9/11 terrorist attacks to remember always. Today's generation has no idea of the ordeal of WW2..An ordeal that was not a sure win on our side but took real guts and prayers to rid the world of a real menace, that could easily have changed the free world for good! A threat that we again are facing but this time with people that spend all day long looking at their phones, God help us!

[Talkwrench]

Very true Ron. You know one thing that gets me is when people say ' oh it will never happen these days' I'm sure throughout history right back to the Romans they said the same thing...

[42guy]

I was 4 1/2 and remember the air raid drills and PT boats on the Hudson river patrolling. Also the Watervliet Arsenal was only 4 miles away which they feared would be a prime target.
They made all the canons there.

[green50]

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I don't remember it, however my father was stationed at Schofield Barracks and was there that Sunday morning. He was also a member of the Pearl Harbor Survivors Association.

[BlueSunoco]

Originally Posted by fourfords

I live in the next County over from San Bernardino. Needless to say, this whole area is quite taken aback by this week's terrorist act. For many, this is another day of Infamy. I am angry and sad at the same time.

As an aside, i understand the couple who murdered these people had a six month old. And dropped off the child at the Grandmother's house just prior to the attack. This mind set is completely beyond anything I could ever imagine. Maybe some of the older folks of the World War Two Era can educate this current generation and prepare them for what might be in store.

My concern also. This is just the beginning of bigger things to come. Not good.

I doubt if we have 'what it takes' to get thru really bad times like the WWII Generation did. Today too many folks are looking for a free handout-entitlement, those guys in the Model A and Early V-8 era just sucked it up, did what they had to do, put it behind them and went on.

Kind of like what a Model A restorer today does with bad repop parts

[Bulligen]

M y folks both graduated from high school in 1942 and all thru their lives kept very clear and distant memories of those days as they came up on the calendar every year.
My Dad Volunteered in 1943 and was sent to Belgium where he fought and was captured and escaped from the germans in the battle of the bulge Dec.17th 1944 He wrote his story and a lot of it is told in the book "Citizen Soldier" by Stephen Ambrose an author and historian who helped with the series Band of Brothers and Saving Private Ryan among others!

i have always tried to repeat these memories to my children through their lives as well!

[ford38v8]

Not to in any way diminish our remembrance of our "date which will live in infamy", nor our coming together as a nation to defeat the Axis, but one may view those events from a perspective a bit different than our own, as prophesied by Winston Churchill on the eve of the Battle of Britain:

... What General Weygand has called The Battle of France is over. The battle of Britain is about to begin. Upon this battle depends the survival of Christian civilisation. Upon it depends our own British life and the long continuity of our institutions and our Empire. The whole fury and might of the enemy must very soon be turned on us. Hitler knows that he will have to break us in this island or lose the war. If we can stand up to him, all Europe may be free and the life of the world may move forward into broad, sunlit uplands. But if we fail, then the whole world, including the United States, including all that we have known and cared for, will sink into the abyss of a new Dark Age made more sinister, and perhaps more protracted, by the lights of a perverted science. Let us therefore brace ourselves to our duties, and so bear ourselves that, if the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will still say, "This was their finest hour".
— Winston Churchill 18 June 1940

[fourfords]

When I was a little kid, before class began, we all stood up and recited the Pledge Of Allegiance. I also remember the "Duck-And-Cover" drills during the Cuban Crisis. I remember being told during school that the President had been shot. I still cry as an adult when I look at the Zapruder film. I remember the Vietnam veterans returning from war. I was a very young manager for a business. The returning soldiers we gave jobs to had no cars so I gave them a ride home. The stories they told were fresh and unbelievably horrible. I remember these things as if they just happened.

I have an Uncle who was at the Battle Of The Bulge. had an Uncle who was a flight engineer on B-17's over Europe, I had an Uncle who was killed during "The Battle Off Samar" Philippines October 25, 1944, I had another Uncle who swept Tokyo Bay for mines for the Japanese surrender. I had another Uncle who was in the Occupying force in Europe and and anther Uncle who walked the Berlin Wall in Germany at the beginning of the "Cold War". I missed Vietnam by about a year and my Dad was finishing up College when the Korean war ended. I'm so proud of them, words don't cover it. My hope is this generation will recognize the threat and rise to the occasion. Remember Pearl Harbor!

[A bones]

Originally Posted by ford38v8

Not to in any way diminish our remembrance of our "date which will live in infamy", nor our coming together as a nation to defeat the Axis, but one may view those events from a perspective a bit different than our own, as prophesied by Winston Churchill on the eve of the Battle of Britain:

... What General Weygand has called The Battle of France is over. The battle of Britain is about to begin. Upon this battle depends the survival of Christian civilisation. Upon it depends our own British life and the long continuity of our institutions and our Empire. The whole fury and might of the enemy must very soon be turned on us. Hitler knows that he will have to break us in this island or lose the war. If we can stand up to him, all Europe may be free and the life of the world may move forward into broad, sunlit uplands. But if we fail, then the whole world, including the United States, including all that we have known and cared for, will sink into the abyss of a new Dark Age made more sinister, and perhaps more protracted, by the lights of a perverted science. Let us therefore brace ourselves to our duties, and so bear ourselves that, if the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will still say, "This was their finest hour".
— Winston Churchill 18 June 1940

Good of you to mention Churchill. Last winter I spent a loong time on Chemo.
I was lucky to have a copy of "The Churchill Factor". I now know that It was his spunk that kept the pressure on to resist the Axis powers. He changed history.

Here's to what JonC said, Post #3. --- Tom

[GB SISSON]

I was born in '53 and the Vietnam war was de-escalating when I got my draft card. Likewise my dad was an 18 year old training as a fighter pilot when WW2 ended. He served in the Army Air corps during the occupation of Germany and flew from a base in Nordholz Germany. As long as I can remember I have read everything I can get on WW2 and there are lots of books. I visited Pearl Harbor and the surrounding areas a couple of years ago and it made a huge impression on me. I have a tremendous amount of respect for what Tom Brokaw named 'The greatest generation'. They were raised in the great depression along with the dust bowl and as they reached adulthood were called upon to save our freedom and way of life from a ruthless axis foe. They came home victorious and built the infrastructure we still count on today. Tonight after work I watched the first 3 episodes of a show put out by amazon that can be streamed on a computer. I had my 34 year old employee show me how to stream it before he left, as I had no idea how. This show is called 'The man in the high castle' and is about an alternative ending to ww2 in which we lost the war in 1947. Hitler dropped the bomb and they invaded at Virginia Beach and other places. The drama takes place in 1962 in an occupied America with the Rocky mountain states as a neutral zone and the West belonging to Japan and the East to the Germans. Needless to say there is an active underground of solid patriots. I have often thought about how close the war was at different stages and how it could have gone the other way. It's a very interesting thing to watch.....Reading that speech by Churchill always gives me goosebumps. God bless all those that gave their lives or sacrificed for the good of all of us who followed, and yes, let us not forget.

[1952henry]

Originally Posted by Ol' Ron

History is a great teacher, unfortunately, not many people pay any attention to it. Especially politicians.

True that. Every chance they get our leaders run head first into the bramble patches our founding fathers warned about.

Different times for sure. Can't even imagine this president back then. He'd no doubt be running around babbling about the weather whilst conflict begins in Europe.

[Reisterstown Ray]

I had just turned six years old in November of 1941. My oldest brother, still in high school had joined the Civil Defense Corp. We lived in Baltimore City at that time. My first and only male cousin had already been drafted into the U S Army. His father was a member of the Home Guard and as a volunteer guarded a draw bridge in south Baltimore after work at his job. Many of the young men on our block, from our church and local businesse's were soon drafted. So I was aware that our country was at war.

[1952henry]

Originally Posted by TonyM

The students are taught history with survey courses. There is a lot more than just World War II when it comes to history ( the 50 or so years leading up to World War II are incredibly important in understanding the real causes of the war). And most students HATE history. They just don't care and they DON'T make the effort to learn it. It is that simple.

I went to school a long time ago and if a boy wanted to know about WWII battles, he had to visit a library and check out the books himself. The grade school and high school history classes are survey courses--they try to pack in as much history as they can for the term. You just can't spend the whole semester on World War II.

We were taught the basics of World History for that era and then the class moved on to the next chapter. That is just the way it is. Like anything else in grade school or high school--if the student wants to learn more, then they will have to do it on their own. By the way, I am an university-trained historian (my expert field of study is the first 50 years of the 20th century) and a published history author (in print for nine years now).

Simple fact: Most students hate history.

I'm sure you have some good titles of your own but i believe "A Century of War" and "Atlas Shrugged" should be part of a history reading list.

[1952henry]

I wonder how many adults, much less kids , know who Kimmel and Short were? If you don't read up on them.

[V12Bill]

I was 5 years old when it happened, but 20 years later was stationed at Schofield Barrracks and saw all the points that the Japs bombed and later visited the Memorial at Pearl Harbor.

[Dodge]

I was born 5 yrs. after the war ended but heard lots of stories from others in the family
where they were and what they were doing when Pearl Harbor was bombed.
My father lost two cousins there that day in the bombing.
I also have been two Pearl Harbor twice and it is a moving experience.

[woodiewagon46]

My father in law was already in the army and was home on leave at the Giant's football game when they made an announcement for all service men to return to their base. He landed on Normandy and went straight thru to Russia under "Old Blood and Gut's", George Patton. They truly were the "Greatest Generation". Man I wish Franklin D Roosevelt was our President now.

[TonyM]

I wasn't born yet, but my grandfather was already in the Army on Pearl Harbor day. He served in North Africa invasion November 1942, Tunisia Campaign 1943, Invasion of Sicily July 1943, Invasion of Italy Sept 1943, Italian Campaign 1944, Southern France 1945; went home a casualty in 1945. He hated WWII and went absolutely ballistic when my uncle joined the army during Viet Nam. I am told he was not the same guy when he came back.

[Graeme / New Zealand]

I can, Dec 7 1985 the day I got married...like Pearl that burned. I wasn't around for the original but I'm well versed on the subject being a "student" of WWI & II history.

GB

[Graeme / New Zealand]

Originally Posted by Bulligen

M y folks both graduated from high school in 1942 and all thru their lives kept very clear and distant memories of those days as they came up on the calendar every year.
My Dad Volunteered in 1943 and was sent to Belgium where he fought and was captured and escaped from the germans in the battle of the bulge Dec.17th 1944 He wrote his story and a lot of it is told in the book "Citizen Soldier" by Stephen Ambrose an author and historian who helped with the series Band of Brothers and Saving Private Ryan among others!

i have always tried to repeat these memories to my children through their lives as well!

I've read all the Stephen Ambrose books in the WWII series and the one about Lewis and Clarke the US explorers ( Undaunted Courage). I've also read Hugh Ambroses The Pacific. reading history of any kind makes you appreciate what you have today and not just take it for granted.

GB

[Joe AZ]

I wasn't born until 1951, but my uncle was stationed on the USS Tennessee the morning of the Japanese invasion of Pearl Harbor. He witnessed first hand the destruction of the Arizona, as they were moored just fore of it. My dad fought in Europe, including Normandy, the Battle of the Bulge, and at the end of the war, liberated a concentration camp / rocket manufacturing facility in Nordhausen. Both men were lucky enough to survive the war, and later raise and provide for families. It's unfathomable to me that having witnessed what they did, they were able to return home and live "normal" lives. The sacrifices their generation made are unequaled.

[Brendan]

Originally Posted by Joe Immler

God rest the souls of all who perished in WW II. The rag heads sure are lucky they weren't pulling their crap on us back in our forefathers day.

yup we would have turned where the Bastards live into glass! doesn't lots of heat and sand make glass?

[GB SISSON]

Originally Posted by Joe AZ

I wasn't born until 1951, but my uncle was stationed on the USS Tennessee the morning of the Japanese invasion of Pearl Harbor. He witnessed first hand the destruction of the Arizona, as they were moored just fore of it. My dad fought in Europe, including Normandy, the Battle of the Bulge, and at the end of the war, liberated a concentration camp / rocket manufacturing facility in Nordhausen. Both men were lucky enough to survive the war, and later raise and provide for families. It's unfathomable to me that having witnessed what they did, they were able to return home and live "normal" lives. The sacrifices their generation made are unequaled.

After reading the postcard, now I have goosebumps on top of the other goosebumps.....

[john worden]

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I was born in 47 soon after my parents were discharged from the US Navy and US Coast Guard.
I too have read the history books and am flat in awe of those who served in WWII and the service members who served since then. My service time was a cake walk compared to most.
It seems we are being tested again and it's time the pols got out of the way and let leaders lead.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by john worden

It seems we are being tested again and it's time the pols got out of the way and let leaders lead.

We are beyond "being tested again".......we're already in deep "stuff" of a dozen different sorts. Where is this leader you speak of? DD

[OLDTINDEALER]

Born in 1966 but Dad and Uncle rushed out and joined Army Air Core. Figured it would better then drafted and told where to fight. Still proud to say the only Mitsubishi my family has ever owned was painted on the side of a P51 Mustang.

[john worden]

Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN

We are beyond "being tested again".......we're already in deep "stuff" of a dozen different sorts. Where is this leader you speak of? DD

The leader I speak of is the US Military. Turn them loose.

[Bill S]

If we handled WW 1 and WW 2 like all of the other WARS since, we would have lost. (Not police action and other names that the wars have been called)
I remember Dec 7th I was 6.

[1 Raggedy Ride]

I wasn't born 'til a few years after, but I can remember, as a young boy, there were the movies that were taken of the attack, shown on the T.V., every Dec. 7th....and every Dec. 7th since then, I can remember, the feeling of compassion and helplessness, just seemed to grow..... Joe Immler , in an above posting, is right and said it best......I think it's time to close the boarders, allowing all of the "WHOSAINS " in , and deport the ones that are here.....this is a world wide crisis, and it's going to get worse.... just my personal opinion.......and with that said, have you thought of who your going to vote for, the next President of the United States of America. ???.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by 1 Raggedy Ride

.......and with that said, have you thought of who your going to vote for, the next President of the United States of America. ???.

I hope that somehow, that ain't gonna be too late! DD

[39topless]

[QUOTE=1 Raggedy Ride;1201647] Joe Immler , in an above posting, is right and said it best......I think it's time to close the boarders, allowing all of the "WHOSAINS " in , and deport the ones that are here.....

Sure glad this wasn't the policy when my ancestors arrived!

[robert dick]

i remember it like it was last week -- 3 of us in my sunroom in Arlington Ma , playing Monopoly, when the announcement came over the radio. The sad part is they do not teach kids anything about WW2 in schools today.
I was showing a couple of 12 yr olds my M1 garands and also an M15, one of them looked at me a said about the M1, 'they actually carried that , it' so heavy

[Prawbly]

I remember Dec. 7th. I carried an M-1 and know it was very heavy. I was in the Army from 1962 to 1965 in Germany. God less those involved in Pearl, and all those that that serve the Military everywhere they are true heroes

[37 Coupe]

Originally Posted by robert dick

i remember it like it was last week -- 3 of us in my sunroom in Arlington Ma , playing Monopoly, when the announcement came over the radio. The sad part is they do not teach kids anything about WW2 in schools today.
I was showing a couple of 12 yr olds my M1 garands and also an M15, one of them looked at me a said about the M1, 'they actually carried that , it' so heavy

My weapons from the era are a Winchester M1 carbine and a Remington Rand 1911A1 pistol both 1944. Still amazing to me the manufacturing that switched so quickly to war production. The Remington Rand ofcourse was from their typewriter manufacturing base,the magazines are marked "G" from Remington Rand's General Shaver branch. If we needed these sources today we would have to go to China.

[Karl Wescott]

While I am way too young, The family story was that on Saturday my grandparents took delivery of a brand new 9N tractor. My grandparents, dad, and his brothers got it oiled up and prepped to try it out Sunday morning... While they were working it my grandmother came running out with the news that Pearl Harbor was under attack. I have the tractor.

My grandfather had been gassed at Verdun in WW1, he became an officer in the Oregon Guard (old farts and kids). Both my dad mom and one of my wife's grandmothers served as aircraft spotters (at different places). My dad served in the Oregon Guard for most of high school (one of his stories was two friends assigned a BAR... and brought it to school to show off), then he enlisted in the Navy while 17, but the fighting stopped while he was still in training. My mom's parents both worked building Liberty ships.

[Ol' Ron]

Kimmel and Short were both fired. But, McArther, who had 12 hours warning walked away clean after everyaircraft he had was wiped out on the ground. Politics, ain't great.

[flatheadfan]

I am a pre-war issue. The day the bombing occurred I was over at my grandparents' house while my parents were off to see a movie. The radio was on when the announcement came. Everyone in the room was dead quiet. I didn't understand what had happen but I could tell things had changed and somehow I knew things would never be the same. All of my uncles were in various branches of the Army. All eventually came home. My dad (due to his math background), spent the entire War stateside teaching navigation to future Navy fliers.

Tom

[Capn John]

A family friend Paul G. Chandler. USMC, 4th Marines, was captured the first day of the war in Shanghai, China, along with 3 other Marines and elsewhere in China all the Marines stationed there.
The Japs felt he and the other 3 were part of the embassy staff and he and the 3 were exchanged for Japanese diplomatic personnel elsewhere. The rest of the Marines spent the war as POWs. In September 1942 he was exchanged, promoted to Captain, went on to the Guam invasion as a Major and Iwo Jima as a Lt. Colonel with the 3rd Marine Division. Among his awards was the Legion of Merit.
Returned in 1946 and was married shortly thereafter.
I believe he saw the whole war!!!

[Karl]

Not only was I not born but neither was my father ! However I have read widely around the topic - How could any nation take on the industrial and moral might of the USA and expect to win? Every generation has events in time that every one remembers what they where doing when they got the news . My generation doesn't have Pearl Harbour or JFK ( I was alive but only 2 months old) but we do have 911 ( turned on the TV in the morning thought I was watching a bad movie) and the death of Princess Diana (I was in the Bath)

[Drbrown]

Following Pearl Harbor, after night-time black-out air raid practices in our city, my brother and I use to run out of the house in the morning to see if there were any bombs laying on top of our the roof ! My father was rejected from enlistment due to a bad heart. My uncle and his two brothers, all born in Germany and who immigrated into the US in 1927 as young children, signed-up immediately, using the same birth certificate. One was a machinist on the aircraft carrier USS Saratoga, one flew fighters in the Army Air Force and trained French pilots how to fly, and one served in the army first in North Africa and was awarded the purple heart medal, then was shipped out to the Pacific Theater. They survived to war.