Bendix Brakes Question

[meric42]

I have just fitted a set of Bolling Bros. brakes (front and rear) to my '41 Coupe which was straight forward enough.

Generally I am very pleased with the quality and fit of the product, but I am however having difficulty getting the hand brake to operate enough to hold the car properly. It would seem that there is a lot of movement in the lever attached to the cable on the rear shoe before the spreader bar contacts and actuates the front shoe.

Am I missing something or do I need to allow for the shoes to bed in a little more before I can expect to achieve the best possible hand brake functionality?

I'd be interested in other peoples experiences.

[Andy]

I think the cable just needs the slack taken out. The cable should be just short of applying the brake.

[V8 Bob]

Start by making sure shoes are properly adjusted, and the jack stands are under the rear axle to simulate ride height. Center the shoes by hand with the backing plates, and adjust the cables so there is very little movement of the upper struts when pushed against their springs. The use of a large screw driver will help make sure the cables are fully retracted during the adjustment by prying on the park lever, pulling any slack out of the cable. Alternate a couple of times side to side to ensure a good adjustment for each brake.

[51woodie]

meric42. By you having done this install, and got the shoes in the correct orientation, I'm not going to question your knowledge of brake adjusting. Your pictures look like you got all the parts installed correctly. Like you, I installed the Boling Bros. brakes, front and rear, on my '46 Super Deluxe Coupe. My install went well, and I had no problem getting the hand brake adjusted. But, I was not initially happy with the holding ability of the hand brake, or the stopping power of the service brakes. They were good enough to get 300+ kms on the new set up before I pulled the drums to inspect the shoe to drum contact. What I found was a contact area of about 60 to 80% on each shoe. I sanded the high spots using a sanding block and 100 grit paper. The brakes were a bit better, but still not up to my expectations. I've got another +/- 500km after the sanding, but will have to wait until we get warmer weather in Northern Ontario (-38c yesterday morning) before I pull the drums to check the contact again. The other possibility is the drum diameters. Are the drums new, worn, machined? If the drums are not the original I.D. then the shoe friction material will not have the same arc as the larger I.D. of the drum, so less contact.

[19Fordy]

Not sure if it makes any difference but when I installed the Boling brothers new rear backing plates with brakes and drums I had to cit down the length of the E-Brake tubes supplied with the kit. Car is a 40 Ford. I also recall I had to readjust the hand brake as well as the cable under the car.

[meric42]

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Originally Posted by 19Fordy

Not sure if it makes any difference but when I installed the Boling brothers new rear backing plates with brakes and drums I had to cit down the length of the E-Brake tubes supplied with the kit. Car is a 40 Ford. I also recall I had to readjust the hand brake as well as the cable under the car.

Thanks, I had wondered about this as a possibility as the springs on the cable ends did seem to be restricting the movement of the actuating arm on the rear shoe.

[meric42]

Originally Posted by 51woodie

meric42. By you having done this install, and got the shoes in the correct orientation, I'm not going to question your knowledge of brake adjusting. Your pictures look like you got all the parts installed correctly. Like you, I installed the Boling Bros. brakes, front and rear, on my '46 Super Deluxe Coupe. My install went well, and I had no problem getting the hand brake adjusted. But, I was not initially happy with the holding ability of the hand brake, or the stopping power of the service brakes. They were good enough to get 300+ kms on the new set up before I pulled the drums to inspect the shoe to drum contact. What I found was a contact area of about 60 to 80% on each shoe. I sanded the high spots using a sanding block and 100 grit paper. The brakes were a bit better, but still not up to my expectations. I've got another +/- 500km after the sanding, but will have to wait until we get warmer weather in Northern Ontario (-38c yesterday morning) before I pull the drums to check the contact again. The other possibility is the drum diameters. Are the drums new, worn, machined? If the drums are not the original I.D. then the shoe friction material will not have the same arc as the larger I.D. of the drum, so less contact.

Unfortunately I can't wait until I've done hundreds of miles as I have to get the car checked before I can drive it on New Zealand roads and it must at least pass a stall test with the hand brake to be deemed to be safe. My coupe is a 40 000 mile original car and the drums don't look like they have ever been turned. I have taken the car for a short road test last weekend so I will take the drums off, check the wear pattern and make sure that the shoes are centred properly (I did follow the instructions so should be okay there)

[meric42]

Originally Posted by Andy

I think the cable just needs the slack taken out. The cable should be just short of applying the brake.

I will check this again at the weekend.

[meric42]

Originally Posted by V8 Bob

Start by making sure shoes are properly adjusted, and the jack stands are under the rear axle to simulate ride height. Center the shoes by hand with the backing plates, and adjust the cables so there is very little movement of the upper struts when pushed against their springs. The use of a large screw driver will help make sure the cables are fully retracted during the adjustment by prying on the park lever, pulling any slack out of the cable. Alternate a couple of times side to side to ensure a good adjustment for each brake.

I will take the drums off, check the wear pattern and make sure that the shoes are centred properly (I did follow the instructions so should be okay there)

[Tinker]

Standard practice was arcing brake shoes. Certainly a lost practice. See post 11#, maybe still working.

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...-shoes.317327/

Sometimes you can find old arc grinders.




.

[51woodie]

As 19Fordy mentioned, it reminded me that I had to shorten the tubes as well.

[Branded]

I just purchased the Boling Brothers kit for the front and rear of my 40 Sedan. I’m curious as to why there is no mention of needing to shorten the e brake cable guide tube in their online tech section or in their instructions provided with the kit

[rich b]

Originally Posted by 19Fordy

I installed the Boling brothers new rear backing plates with brakes and drums

Maybe you already changed them; but the-brake levers are supposed to be on the inside of the shoes.

[rich b]

From your description of shoe contact; I would think the e-brake would hold; I think the mention of tube length by others may be a clue there is a mechanical problem in actuation.

Thru some other projects; I have found that there seems to be overly long springs on the repop cables.

What the other guys have said about having to shorten the inner side of the e-brake tubes makes a lot of sense.

I have also found that the clip can be installed between the coils of the spring (leaving some of the spring inside the tube) to tune the working length.

The brake lever needs to move enough to apply the brakes both without coil bind and excessive travel.

You could put a ratchet strap around the shoes and have someone actuate the hand lever and see what is going on.

[29AVEE8]

I don't know if this is your problem but I installed a '40 rear e-brake cable on the Lockeed brakes on the rear of my roadster. The cable I used came from C&G. The spring on the cable was much too long and very stiff. I ended up shortening it several times to get it to fit correctly but the wire diameter is much too large so the tension is too high. I talked with Mac VanPelt about this and he has the correct cable/spring. I am not knocking C&G their stuff has always been top rate and worked correctly.

[meric42]

Originally Posted by rich b

Maybe you already changed them; but the-brake levers are supposed to be on the inside of the shoes.

Mine are in the correct (inner) location

Originally Posted by rich b

From your description of shoe contact; I would think the e-brake would hold; I think the mention of tube length by others may be a clue there is a mechanical problem in actuation.

Thru some other projects; I have found that there seems to be overly long springs on the repop cables.

What the other guys have said about having to shorten the inner side of the e-brake tubes makes a lot of sense.

I have also found that the clip can be installed between the coils of the spring (leaving some of the spring inside the tube) to tune the working length.

The brake lever needs to move enough to apply the brakes both without coil bind and excessive travel.

You could put a ratchet strap around the shoes and have someone actuate the hand lever and see what is going on.

I will try moving the retaining clip part way along the spring i.e. closer to the end and see how that changes things and I will try the ratchet strap idea as well, good idea

Originally Posted by 29AVEE8

I don't know if this is your problem but I installed a '40 rear e-brake cable on the Lockeed brakes on the rear of my roadster. The cable I used came from C&G. The spring on the cable was much too long and very stiff. I ended up shortening it several times to get it to fit correctly but the wire diameter is much too large so the tension is too high. I talked with Mac VanPelt about this and he has the correct cable/spring. I am not knocking C&G their stuff has always been top rate and worked correctly.

As my coupe is a low mileage car I have not needed to replace the cable so mine is all original and in good condition.

[51woodie]

rich b. I initially did the same with the e-brake levers (on the outside) as 19Fordy did, but realized when I went to mount the shoes on the backing plates, the levers didn't line up with the cable tubes. The one page instructions that came with the kit does not detail that info. There are pictures and articles giving more information if you go to "Tech Articles" on Boling's website. www.bolingbrothers.com There is also information on grinding the front spindles to match the contour of the new style backing plates. Also, I had to grind a little bit on the rear axle flanges so the backing plates would fit flat on the flanges.

[Talkwrench]

Normally the early ones have the large shoe facing forward, being self energizing you swapped the other way [?] , would that have an effect on the E brake ?
When I did my fronts [MT Bolling] they were made a bit out of whack and I had to sort out what is was that caused the problem , scored the drum grrr . And their linings are just barely over 1 3/4" I took mine local and had them remove and put full 2" linings on .

[Fairlane500]

Meric, I remember something about cutting the cable return spring down as it becomes coil spring bound before brake application.

[john in illinois]

Originally Posted by Fairlane500

Meric, I remember something about cutting the cable return spring down as it becomes coil spring bound before brake application.

That is what I did. Holds good now.

John