Speedometer face plates 1940-1946

[htc]

Hello

I am restoring gauge clusters for 1940 to 1946/47? Ford trucks and cars.
The gauges all are King Seeley.
The speedometers can be Waltham, Stewart Warner or King Seeley.

Whereas I know that Waltham and Stewart Warner speedometer based clusters were used starting 1940, I am not so sure about King Seeley.
The King Seeley based clusters I have seen up to now are 1945 and later. Does anybody have one that is earlier?

Just to help you identify the cluster face plates:

This is a 1940 Stewart Warner 100 mph:



This is a 1940 Stewart Warner 60 mph:



This is a 1941-1946 Stewart Warner 60 mph



This. is a 1941-1946 Waltham 100 mph



This is a 1945 King Seeley 60 mph



and finally a 1945 King Seeley 100 mph




I have the decals for all these faceplates but as I do not want to make mistakes in the restoration of clusters, I need to know when King Seeley speedometer based clusters were used.

Anybody?

Greetings
Hans

PS. Just to show what a restored 60mph King Seeley faceplate looks like:

[htc]

Hello

Not much reaction.
Maybe my question was too complicated.

I want to know when King Seeley speedometers were used on 1940-1946 clusters.

One can recognize a King Seeley just by looking at it.
It does not have screws to attach the face plate to the frame (four tabs, two on each side, are used) and the odometer window is so wide that it goes through the 3rd Gear region of the face plate.



Greetings
Hans

[FortyNiner]

While I have far less experience than other members, those faces don't look familiar to me.

[htc]

Originally Posted by FortyNiner

While I have far less experience than other members, those faces don't look familiar to me.

Hello

Thank you for reacting.
Oeps.

None of he face plates looks familiar?
They all belong to clusters that were used in Ford Trucks and cars starting 1940 and ending 1946/1947.

I am very surprized. You have a 1946 car. Should have a similar cluster ???

Greetings
Hans

[fordyford]

I have considerable experience with these 1940/47 truck/commercial faces. The only rectangular one ever used in a passenger car was in 1940 standard and a sedan delivery in 1941. All 1942/48 passenger cars were round.

The King Seely is very uncommon.
Stewart Warner most common.

Does anyone know how to change a 60mph into a 100mph?

[htc]

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Hello Fordyford,

That is interesting and new to me.
So only the the trucks had the rectangular speedometer faceplates?
(except the 1940 standard and the 1941 sedan of course).

With respect to changing 60 mph to 100 mph, it is a matter of changing the magnetization or the hairspring.
And of course change the face plate (but that is easy. I have decals of all of them).

Very much easier said than done.

A 60 mph magnet/hairspring combination makes the pointer turn 180 degrees.

Now you want to make it turn +/- 110 degrees at 60 mph instead so you have to make the hairspring stiffer or the magnet weaker.

Making he hairspring stiffer you can do by cutting away a part, making it shorter (Or by finding the impossible to find correct hairspring).

You can also make the magnet weaker such hat the force it exerts on the speed cup is smaller. Weakening the magnet is possible by rotating it in a static magnetic field.

Both solutions are extremely trial and error and very frustrating to do.
Maybe the easiest is the magnetization but be careful because once you go to much down it is difficult to go up. Especially the Stewart Warner one (do not ask me how I know this ...)

I am working on the calibration of an SW speedometer as we speak. I did post a question, the answer of which could help me, in another thread.

Greetings
Hans

[htc]

Hello

So I did some research and had a look at the website on identifying instrument panels:
https://sites.google.com/site/identi...clusters-1940s

I found this



and this:




This confirms what Fordyford said.

As I do not know about Ford Trucks my next question is:

Are there two different kind of trucks:

1. The 4-speed one (60 mph)
2. The V8 one (100 mph)

???

Greetings

Hans

[fordyford]

The engine did not determine which speedometer to use, the transmission would. Three speed or four speed.

Other things to know
1940 all used a VOLTMETER
1941/47 used ammeters
oil pressure gauges changed to 80 pounds in 1944
the chrome bezel was a 1940/41 thing, 42/47 painted Tacoma cream

Are you selling face kits?

[scooder]

I have a 1940 cluster with an ammeter, I'll dig it out and post a pic.
Martin.

[htc]

Originally Posted by fordyford

The engine did not determine which speedometer to use, the transmission would. Three speed or four speed.

Other things to know
1940 all used a VOLTMETER
1941/47 used ammeters
oil pressure gauges changed to 80 pounds in 1944
the chrome bezel was a 1940/41 thing, 42/47 painted Tacoma cream

Are you selling face kits?

Hello Fordyford,

You are very right.

Only in 1940 they did use a BATT gauge (volt meter). Afterwards it were AMP gauges.
I knew that one moment in time they did go from 50 psi to 80 psi gauges but I did not know it was 1944. Nice info!
Also the painting info is new to me. Top.

Your question about face kits...

These face kits are an asset to me. I spend a huge amount of time and software use license costs (Coreldraw) to make hem.

I restore the Ford Truck clusters because I got a few of them looking for Ford GP clusters. I have made all the speedometer dial plates (60 mph and 100 mph for SW, KS and Waltham (only 100 mph)) and all gauge face plates (KS) 1940 and 1941-1947.
I also have all the odometer number strips. Black and red.
I use white and clear decals for that.

If you want a 'face' to be redone, I prefer it is send to me. Using decals is not a one-time-try-thing. There is also the preparation of the surface you are going to apply it on.

If you really know how to work with decals I might consider selling the face kits. PM me for that.

Greetings
Hans

[scooder]

Hopefully here's the pics of the 1940 Truck cluster including the Amp guage, chrome surround and 100 mph four speed speedometer.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/vLaf8ZLUWtQ5XQwZ7

https://photos.app.goo.gl/6fdEASbGendGLxy58

An odd combination but it's real.
Martin.

[scooder]

I tried, can you see um if you click on um?
Martin.

[scooder]

Test.https://photos.app.goo.gl/6fdEASbGendGLxy58
Bugger!
Martin.

[scooder]

Try again
DSC_0225.jpg

DSC_0225~2.jpg

There they are.
Martin.

[Newc]

Ok, very good. Now Ford of Canada built military trucks from '38 on and used civilian guages for many of them. Note my avitar- it is a '42 Canadian Military Pattern truck with a 4speed civilian type face plate guage. Newc

[pistonbroke]

I here you say four speed truck but are you sure you don't mean 1.5 ton and up? My half tons were four speeds and all had 100 mph and no shift indicator markings. GB. does your tonner pickup have the 60 MPH with the shift indicator marks? Just asking , never to old to learn, Tim

[Fritz]

Originally Posted by scooder

Try again
Attachment 509692

Attachment 509693

There they are.
Martin.

Do you have any more info on those 1940 ammeters? Were they only used on the big trucks?

[scooder]

Tim and Fritz,
I unfortunately have no idea if this cluster came out of a big truck. Which would seem odd as I've only seen 60 mph Speedos (the guage not the little swim pants) associated with them. But mines got shift points on it, but 100 mph?
As for the ammeter, I've inquired in the past about this and the only answer I get is "they didn't have ammeters in 1940" which apparently ends the discussion. The very fact I have this here guage is ignored?
Whish I could be more help.
Martin.
.ps. Fritz I love that pickup.

[Fritz]

Thank you scooder. Its a 41 but it has 40 gauges in it since I like them better. In light of that, that 40 style ammeter is fascinating.

[fordyford]

You have a very uncommon cluster, 100 MPH and shift points? What does the back of the ammeter look like, screw terminals or induction loop?