Engine blew up. Can I save it?

[PepeLoco]

Big mess.
looks like the cylinder sleeve slipped down in the piston and bottomed out on the crack, piston disintegrated and the rod punched some holes in the wall. Outside block is OK. Just got the car out of Dallas two weeks ago. Apparently a recent rebuild cylinder walls feel new, no ridge. Going to look at the bottom after a couple of beers........

Chris n'Austin

[columbiA]

Obviously not enough press fit of sleeve.Now days they generaly leave a step at bottom of bore to prevent that.Iwould just find another block.

[James Rogers]

Looks dead to me. You must have been flyin' to do all that. Number 4 looks bad too.

[d.j. moordigian]

Yep,....needs a step at the bottom.
Is it a number matching car/engine?

James, your right, forgot to mention that! Trash from # 3.

[Jordan]

damn----that's the only way i can describe this.

[34Fordtk]

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Man that is NASTY!! See whats left and then take the block to the machine shop to see if they think it can be saved.

[James Rogers]

Where you at Pepe? With money,I can help!

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Looks terminal from here. Why chance it??

BTW, is this the engine you just replaced the head gasket on??

[Tim]

While you could save it, the answer is it'll be alot cheaper in the long run to find another. I bet your crank, all rods, camshaft, lifters, and distributor internal parts like the gear and shaft all have scars and debris all over it probably bent at least two rods, not to mention damage and crap in the oil passages. It's not uncommon to find a running A motor for $500+/- still. IF you want to get crazy put a B motor in there with a counterbalanced crank and high compression head. But that ones toast. Sorry that happened.

Tim

[Milton]

Originally Posted by PepeLoco

Going to look at the bottom after a couple of beers........

Pepe, I hate to say this but, even a couple of boilermakers isn't going to help its appearance.

[PepeLoco]

Nope. So I am just out $$$$, time and more beer....

[PepeLoco]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Looks terminal from here. Why chance it??

BTW, is this the engine you just replaced the head gasket on??

I was hoping it was just a head gasket. The fella says he put the Snyder Hi Comp head on 3-4 years ago. I really haven't looked to see if I can salvage that.
My dad told me never drive a Model A above 50 or this would happen. I would sometimes do 55 MPH for 5-10 minutes on the commute to work. Looks like I will get a Mitchell OD soon.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Chris,
Chief, (my dad,) has been gone for 7 years. As I was digesting your pictures, I'm sure I heard him behind me saying, "No winna kapoot!" loosely translated means JUNK!--Bill W.

[Jordan]

Originally Posted by PepeLoco

I was hoping it was just a head gasket. The fella says he put the Snyder Hi Comp head on 3-4 years ago. I really haven't looked to see if I can salvage that.
My dad told me never drive a Model A above 50 or this would happen. I would sometimes do 55 MPH for 5-10 minutes on the commute to work. Looks like I will get a Mitchell OD soon.

A model a should easily do 55. But sometimes speedometers are off, so maybe the 55 was really more like 65?

[Steve Wastler]

Jordan, you could right, I usually disregard the speedo when driving the A, I go with feel and sound.

[George Miller]

Originally Posted by PepeLoco

I was hoping it was just a head gasket. The fella says he put the Snyder Hi Comp head on 3-4 years ago. I really haven't looked to see if I can salvage that.
My dad told me never drive a Model A above 50 or this would happen. I would sometimes do 55 MPH for 5-10 minutes on the commute to work. Looks like I will get a Mitchell OD soon.

Speed had nothing to do with your problem. It is called poor workmanship.
The only way I would save that engine is if it was original to that car.
One reason is I would not trust the rest of the job. Yes some people use a step in the bottom, but If done right it is not needed, although it does not hurt.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by PepeLoco

I was hoping it was just a head gasket. The fella says he put the Snyder Hi Comp head on 3-4 years ago. I really haven't looked to see if I can salvage that.
My dad told me never drive a Model A above 50 or this would happen. I would sometimes do 55 MPH for 5-10 minutes on the commute to work. Looks like I will get a Mitchell OD soon.

My second cousin lent out her 41 Chevy 1 1/2 ton truck that her dad had bought new in 41. The fool that borrowed it drove it 60 or 65 down the highway and put a rod out the side of the block. My cousin's husband left it setting out until it rotted away and went to the scrap yard. What a shame and just for too much speed.

[Kurt in NJ]

If it happened to an engine without a sleeve it would get a sleeve, there is a good chance the rod is bent some, there is also a chance it can be straightened.

the bore in the block needs to be measured ---then the available sizes of sleeves need to be compared to the bore size ---depending on the size of the block, the size of the sleeves you can get you either make a sleeve fit the hole or make the hole fit the sleeve ---even if there is no ledge you can use glue, and also a locknstitch C4 threaded pin between the sleeve and block to prevent it moving if the fit is not perfect. ---if the other cyls have sleeves I wouild do something to prevent the possibility of them moving in the future.

I have seen much worse fixed.

How fast you were going had nothing to do with the damage ---it is the result of improper sleeve installation, as soon as it slipped down a little the rings grabbed it and ripped the piston apart---this block probably isn't any worse than it was before it got the sleeve ----it needs a sleeve.

I have tried to break my engine, have run it over 1000+ miles flat out--65+ across Ohio, and PA -stock-no overdrive--it was my first babbitt job and I wanted to see how good I did---I have tried 5 mph in 3rd---to flat out and still 25+ years later I havn't been able to pound out the mains even with a flywheel/crankshaft balance problem

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

They also make sleeves with the ledge on the sleeve at the top, and you counter bore the top of the block, Vern has done several for me over the years. Herm.

[Jim Brierley]

All the more reason not to sleeve a block unless absolutely necessary! Any A or B block will go to 4" with no problems.

[gweilbaker]

A guy on the Model T site made a lamp.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/bruckzo...7625573839736/

Just sayn'

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by gweilbaker

A guy on the Model T site made a lamp.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/bruckzo...7625573839736/

Just sayn'

That's pretty slick!

I thought you were going to show an engine block with a tall pole and lamp shade.

[AL in NY]

Looks like you had some major overheating problems to do that much damage. Either lack of oil or poor cooling. It looks a lot like the damage I had on my last engine. I had two major problems with my last engine and both it turned out were caused by a marginal cooling radiator. It ran fine around town, but at 55 MPH in hot weather, it didn't cut it. I thought the first time it was an oil pressure problem, so I didn't check out the radiator (bad call). The second time the damage was fatal, like yours. I would suggest after replacing your engine, have your radiator checked out by a quality radiator shop before you get back on the interstate at 55-60 MPH. My re-cored radiator holds the engine temperature at 160 degrees (with a thermostat) in all weather now. My "bad call" cost me big bucks..............................

[Purdy Swoft]

Originally Posted by Kurt in NJ

If it happened to an engine without a sleeve it would get a sleeve, there is a good chance the rod is bent some, there is also a chance it can be straightened.

the bore in the block needs to be measured ---then the available sizes of sleeves need to be compared to the bore size ---depending on the size of the block, the size of the sleeves you can get you either make a sleeve fit the hole or make the hole fit the sleeve ---even if there is no ledge you can use glue, and also a locknstitch C4 threaded pin between the sleeve and block to prevent it moving if the fit is not perfect. ---if the other cyls have sleeves I wouild do something to prevent the possibility of them moving in the future.

I have seen much worse fixed.

How fast you were going had nothing to do with the damage ---it is the result of improper sleeve installation, as soon as it slipped down a little the rings grabbed it and ripped the piston apart---this block probably isn't any worse than it was before it got the sleeve ----it needs a sleeve.

I have tried to break my engine, have run it over 1000+ miles flat out--65+ across Ohio, and PA -stock-no overdrive--it was my first babbitt job and I wanted to see how good I did---I have tried 5 mph in 3rd---to flat out and still 25+ years later I havn't been able to pound out the mains even with a flywheel/crankshaft balance problem

I agree with Kurt 100%. A new sleeve will cover the hole and solve the problem. I have seen Jim Marlar save engine blocks that were damaged like yours. Like Jim Brierley, I'm not a fan of sleeves. Sleeves are not part of the block and don't transfer the heat to the water jacket like the actual block and the engine will run slightly hotter. I prefer large bores. In your case a sleeve is the last resort, unless you get another block. Good luck.

[85930tudor]

I have one just like yours. Sleve and all the same cyl. You can look out the water inlet...Dave

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

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Originally Posted by Jim Brierley

All the more reason not to sleeve a block unless absolutely necessary! Any A or B block will go to 4" with no problems.

Jim, its 100% poor workmanship that sent that sleeve to it doom, it has nothing to do with good workmanship when it comes to sleeving. Just another DIM WIT, that thought he was a Machinist. I hope he didn't think he was a Rebabbitter also. Herm.

[columbiA]

If it was an early Bugatti or Marmon V-16, it could be repaired but why bother when there are so many engines available.

[PepeLoco]

Originally Posted by AL in NY

Looks like you had some major overheating problems to do that much damage. Either lack of oil or poor cooling. It looks a lot like the damage I had on my last engine. I had two major problems with my last engine and both it turned out were caused by a marginal cooling radiator. It ran fine around town, but at 55 MPH in hot weather, it didn't cut it. I thought the first time it was an oil pressure problem, so I didn't check out the radiator (bad call). The second time the damage was fatal, like yours. I would suggest after replacing your engine, have your radiator checked out by a quality radiator shop before you get back on the interstate at 55-60 MPH. My re-cored radiator holds the engine temperature at 160 degrees (with a thermostat) in all weather now. My "bad call" cost me big bucks..............................

I thought that too. Took the rad out to a shop, they said it was clean and pressure tested it. They were bummed that they couldn't make any more money off me.

I am leaning towards poor workmanship as I dig into this, finding more corners that were cut.

[Frank Miller]

To those that say there are many more blocks out there I question how many have good babbit and a fitted crank. I think some here are trying to help him get back on the road with minimal costs. Kurt suggested straightening the rod which I would try to do to retain the matched set. The bore may be a bit too large to get a good press fit on a standard sleeve so something will have to be done to lock it in place. I would lock the others in place also if you find they were sleeved. Remember when the charge explodes pushing the piston down I would think it exerts some force on the top of the sleeve as well.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by columbiA

If it was an early Bugatti or Marmon V-16, it could be repaired but why bother when there are so many engines available.

I agree with the above. Just about anything can be fixed but at what cost. I'm sure even some of the machinists that have already posted here would deep down love to play Frankenstein and bring it back to life.

[George Miller]

Originally Posted by Kohnke Rebabbitting

They also make sleeves with the ledge on the sleeve at the top, and you counter bore the top of the block, Vern has done several for me over the years. Herm.

I like that way better than putting a step in the bottom.
The old Ford tractors used a step in the top.

[Purdy Swoft]

My son in laws father had a 9N with the step in the top . Some of the sleeves had risen causing a miss. JB weld was used to secure the sleeves. My son in law now has the old tractor and it is still running good. The JB weld has held for over 30 years.