Removing Rust from the Block

[Ken T]

I've started digging into the engine and planning to replace the radiator hoses. After removing the bottom hoses a handful of rust fell out. I was hoping not to have to pull the engine. This is what the engine block looks like. I'm not looking at getting this into show car condition at this point. Maybe in the future. Just want to get it running. Is there a way or what is the best way to remove the rust without pulling the engine? I've read Evapo-rust works, but not sure with this amount of rust to remove.

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[tubman]

That looks pretty bad, but you could try. I like a chelation agent (such as Evaporust), but I agree that it is expensive, For situations like this, I use a product called Rust-911, which is a concentrate and is significantly cheaper. When I did the '51 Merc in my Ford club coupe, I treated it with a commercial product first and then flushed it with plain water. I then introduced the Rust-911 solution and let it sit a day. I then drained, treated, and flushed the system a second time, and repeated the Rust-911 process a second time. I then did a final flush and rinse. Here's how it came out:

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by Ken T

I've started digging into the engine and planning to replace the radiator hoses. After removing the bottom hoses a handful of rust fell out. I was hoping not to have to pull the engine. This is what the engine block looks like. I'm not looking at getting this into show car condition at this point. Maybe in the future. Just want to get it running. Is there a way or what is the best way to remove the rust without pulling the engine? I've read Evapo-rust works, but not sure with this amount of rust to remove.

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[Newc]

Oh yea; and the stainless bolts sold at hardware stores have tooo much steel in them. Marine stainless is a better alloy for that bottom bolt in the pumps. May have to drive a smaller socket on to those bolts. Newc

[kiwi nz]

Beat the c...rap out of the bolt heads as well to break up the rust on the threads, you do not want to twist the heads off.

[Ken T]

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Initially, I thought the fire department had drained the coolant. When I removed the bottom hoses, about a quart of coolant drained out. I didn't see any major rusting in the heads where the upper hoses were. Just a dusting. The engine sat for 10+ years so hopefully it's just the bottom. I'm hoping I can get it running in a drivable condition. I'm doing this with my dad and want to get it so he can drive it. This probably being the last project like this I'll be able to do with him.

[KiWinUS]

No way can that be cleaned correctly with out engine strip and shake n bake cleaning. Will still need major pressure washing after that. I have cleaned dozens but I’m sure you will get lots of answers here. You pick your poison. I build many and there’s only one way to clean these.

[Kurt in NJ]

Stick a garden hose into top of head and use coat hanger to help persuade the debris out.

[Ggmac]

I have done what Kurt in NJ suggested and it worked surprisingly well. It can’t hurt to try .

[tubman]

Originally Posted by Ggmac

I have done what Kurt in NJ suggested and it worked surprisingly well. It can’t hurt to try .

And then the Evaporust bath. It may take a few days, but you will be out of pocket less than $100, and as the man says, "It can't hurt to try".

I have had a couple of old fire trucks, and they both had very low miles and the engines were in good shape, though neglected over the years. They both needed a good tune-up and general maintenance, but ran excellently afterwards. If you are in the same situation, I can see trying to solve the problem with the engine still in place. Removing and disassembling the engine will cause other problems you don't need right now.

[Seth Swoboda]

I would not run that engine. I would remove it and take it to a machine shop. Have them clean, bake, shot peen the bare block. Then you will know if it is usable.

You can try to clean that block. However, you will find that the rust scale will plug your radiator tubes and cause overheating issues. I've been through all of this.

I would be looking at a rebuild or another engine if it were me.

[tubman]

There seems to be a considerable difference of opinion here. I, for one, would like some additional information. First, how many miles on the odometer; second, if here is an hour meter (probably on the pump panel), how many hours does it show.

The truck presents like a typical low mile fire engine. I've had very good luck doing the minimum to get them running.

[cas3]

I would do the rust 911 treatment 1st. That will get a lot of it, but the gunk is settled down in the bottoms of the water jackets so you may still have an overheating problem.
Next I would pull the heads off, can be done in the truck, not too tuff of a job. Once you have the heads off you can take a long skinny screwdriver and scrape the junk loose, then neck down a shop vac to fit in there and suck it out. best done when completely dry.

Here's what I got out of one side of a used running motor.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by cas3

I would do the rust 911 treatment 1st. That will get a lot of it, but the gunk is settled down in the bottoms of the water jackets so you may still have an overheating problem.
Next I would pull the heads off, can be done in the truck, not too tuff of a job. Once you have the heads off you can take a long skinny screwdriver and scrape the junk loose, then neck down a shop vac to fit in there and suck it out. best done when completely dry.

Here's what I got out of one side of a used running motor.

[19Fordy]

I wonder how much rust has "thinned down" the cylinder walls due to corrosion?

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by cas3

I would do the rust 911 treatment 1st. That will get a lot of it, but the gunk is settled down in the bottoms of the water jackets so you may still have an overheating problem.
Next I would pull the heads off, can be done in the truck, not too tuff of a job. Once you have the heads off you can take a long skinny screwdriver and scrape the junk loose, then neck down a shop vac to fit in there and suck it out. best done when completely dry.

Here's what I got out of one side of a used running motor.

100% agree. Use tools such as a long bladed screw driver, coat hanger, small gauge, slightly frayed piece of cable chucked up in a drill to get around the water jackets.

[hotcoupe]

Hello, I started a thread on the H.A.M.B. sometime ago regarding rust removal using the chemical process "chelation". It is safe and effective, several people responded stating that it is an acid, because one of the ingredients is citric acid. The solution (tetra sodium EDTA and citric acid combined) results in a NEUTRAL solution, none of my responses could convince them otherwise. Here is a link to the thread https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...moval.1285516/
Hope this helps.
Tom

[robib]

My two cents. I was looking to remove rust from 1934 American Austin fenders. They are extremely thin to begin with, so blasting and/or grinding was out. Did some research and came up with a MOLASSES solution. One part molasses to nine parts water. It is the chelation action written about previously. It attacks the rust and not base metal. It is also relatively inexpensive, I have 55 gallons mixed up. The process is not overnight and the amount of rust definitely determines the amount of time required. I would certainly not have the radiator involved, so some kind of holding tank would be necessary. Many flushes would be required, but the molasses solution could be reused and it is not hazardous. Patience is the word

[Ronnieroadster]

Man that's a lot of heavy rust. Without pulling the engine your going to have your hands full. In my opinion there's no easy short cut. The block needs to be hand scraped not an easy task in the truck especially if this is an early block meaning 24 studs holding each head in place. Another concern for anything that looks like this is the possibility of mice nesting in the valley of the block in its history. The intake manifold should be removed to check on this possibility and at the same time the amount of sludge build up in there can be determined as well. Fire engine's while never really getting a lot of driven road miles certainly have a heck of a lot more hours idling than the average engine thus creating other issues including unwanted cracks.
Ronnieroadster

[Ken T]

Originally Posted by tubman

There seems to be a considerable difference of opinion here. I, for one, would like some additional information. First, how many miles on the odometer; second, if here is an hour meter (probably on the pump panel), how many hours does it show.

The truck presents like a typical low mile fire engine. I've had very good luck doing the minimum to get them running.

The odometer says 3919 miles. I've included an image of the only gauges in regards to the pump. I didn't see any rust in the heads when I removed the upper hose. I didn't really look inside them as there wasn't anything to cause concern. The upper inlet on the radiator has a very light coating of dust. I've removed the radiator to have it rodded. There wasn't any oil in the radiator fluid that poured out (about a quart).

Apparently, thanks to those here, I learned it has been rebuilt. Most likely when the military had it before being purchased by the fire department in '71 or '72.

"Ronnieroadster" There hasn't been any mice nesting in the engine compartment. It was kept in a parking spot under an awning in front of the fire station. It's primary purpose for the past 40 years (minus the last 10+ sitting) has been a parade vehicle or a backdrop for commercials, advertisements or promotions.

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