The Ford Barn

sharp21 · 07-10-2019, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tubman

The round object in your first picture is the sending unit for the King-Seeley electric oil pressure gauge.

I was thinking pressure gauge. Sure doesn’t want to come off!

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sharp21 · 07-10-2019, 06:07 PM

A little progress. Got the mushroom off

Then got the two sheared bolts drilled out. Damned if I can find my extractor set though...

Next problem. I don’t have a socket that can get onto these cam gear bolts! The small gear is interfering...

And finally, it just occurred to me that I have no idea where to hook the engine lift to, now that it is stripped down!

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JSeery · 07-10-2019, 08:13 PM

Extractor is not the way to go on a head bolt. Not finding it is most likely a blessing! You break off an extractor and you just complicate the problem and it is highly unlikely it would work anyway. Best method is to weld a nut to it and turn it out that way. The cast iron in the block will not be bothered by the weld and the heat will break the rust bond.

flatjack9 · 07-10-2019, 09:06 PM

There is a lock plate with tabs that bend up to the flats on those bolts. Must tap those down flat. I use a 1/2" 1/4 drive socket to remove those bolts.

leon bee · 07-10-2019, 10:00 PM

I'm no expert, but get along real well. Try different sockets, you'll find one that gets in there on those bolts. And if you don't have a little MIG welder, well you need one and that broken bolt is your justification.

sharp21 · 07-11-2019, 11:23 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by JSeery

Extractor is not the way to go on a head bolt. Not finding it is most likely a blessing! You break off an extractor and you just complicate the problem and it is highly unlikely it would work anyway. Best method is to weld a nut to it and turn it out that way. The cast iron in the block will not be bothered by the weld and the heat will break the rust bond.

That is great thanks. I don’t have a mig so maybe time to get a little unit... I’ve got a big stick welder but the new garage isn’t wired for it yet.

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tubman · 07-11-2019, 12:11 PM

About welders; I had a 250 AMP Miller "buzzbox" for years and used it a lot. It was great for building frames, etc., but there was a lot it couldn't do. I eventually ended up buying 220 volt Hobart MIG. I was never particularly enamored with it, but it got me through. A couple of years ago, I became intrigued with the newer, smaller stick welders using Inverter technology, rather than transformer. I ended up buying an Everlast unit from Amazon, so I could have regular arc capabilities, as well as being able to upgrade it to a TIG. What I found was that "regular" arc welders have a lot more capability these days than the old "buzzboxes" did. The main thing is you are able to use both straight and reverse polarity on DC and regular AC. That, and a thorough knowledge of the welding rods available and their properties and intended purposes opened up a whole new world for me. Do you know you can "stickweld" aluminum? You can with the proper welder and rod. The welder, though made in China, is of high quality and quite reasonably priced. I am going to update it to a TIG someday, but the tank, etc. will cost almost as much as the welder did. I hardly use my Hobart at all lately.

Mart · 07-12-2019, 04:17 AM

You should be able to get to the cam bolts with a small offset ring spanner. Don't know what it would be called there in the usa. Like said above, make sure you've knocked the tabs back first.

I've lifted a bare block before now by bolting an open end spanner (wrench) between the most central inlet manifold bolt holes. big washers under the bolt heads, just bolt the spanner down and lift on the central part of the spanner.

Mart.

sharp21 · 07-12-2019, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mart

You should be able to get to the cam bolts with a small offset ring spanner. Don't know what it would be called there in the usa. Like said above, make sure you've knocked the tabs back first.

I've lifted a bare block before now by bolting an open end spanner (wrench) between the most central inlet manifold bolt holes. big washers under the bolt heads, just bolt the spanner down and lift on the central part of the spanner.

Mart.

Great tip, thanks! I’ll probably do just that.

For the record I’m from the colonies so am well aware of spammers, shifters, and the like

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sharp21 · 07-13-2019, 08:36 AM

Progress!

Did someone recommend a 12” x 3/16 drill bit? Because that made short work of drilling out the lifter bores!

I also got the cam gear off (using the box spanner).

Next up I’m going to strip the heads. It’s interesting to note the differences between the two sides.

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sharp21 · 07-13-2019, 10:04 AM

Oh and trying to extract the sheared bolts definitely didn’t work. Broke my extractor in two.

This is the kick in the pants I need to get a 220 outlet installed for my welder.

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sharp21 · 07-13-2019, 10:49 AM

Question; the machine shop I’m going to use does a back/shot blast process. I’m going to have them do the block, heads, etc. Should I break down the water pumps and have them do those too?

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Mart · 07-13-2019, 11:09 AM

What did we say? Don't use an extractor!

Now the machine shop will have to get the stud and half an extractor out.

Unless you got lucky and it came out.

Good luck with the rest of it.

Mart.

RalphM · 07-13-2019, 12:16 PM

Water pumps will have to be rebuilt so no reason to blast those. If you send them to a rebuilder they will take care of all that.

Heads are built differently because the distributor bolts to the right head front and the oil filter bolts on to the left head on rear.

Do a search there are several Rebuilders of water pumps on the Ford Barn.

sharp21 · 07-13-2019, 02:22 PM

What is this thing and why is it only in one head? One way valve?

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sharp21 · 07-13-2019, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mart

What did we say? Don't use an extractor!

Now the machine shop will have to get the stud and half an extractor out.

Unless you got lucky and it came out.

Good luck with the rest of it.

Mart.

I know I know.... I’d already drilled the hole so thought I’d give it a try

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JSeery · 07-13-2019, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharp21

Oh and trying to extract the sheared bolts definitely didn’t work. Broke my extractor in two.

This is the kick in the pants I need to get a 220 outlet installed for my welder.

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I told you!

you didn't lesson did you.

Mart · 07-13-2019, 02:41 PM

It's a thermostat and there should be on on both sides.

sharp21 · 07-23-2019, 06:11 PM

Finally got this bolt that was in the head to break loose. Turns out all it needed was a gallon of 50/50 and 200 hammer strikes.

And with that the only thing left to remove is the oil pump idler gear in the back of the block. I don’t have a slide hammer so am gonna see if the shop will do that for me.

And now for my next problem: what do I hook my hoist to in order to lift the block?

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JSeery · 07-23-2019, 06:34 PM

Intake manifold bolts (more than one), bolt holes on the front of the block, etc. Depends on the orientation you want the block in. There are two sets of holes on either side of the timing cover that are not used for anything that can be used if you are wanting to pick it up from the front end. Bellhousing bolt holes in the back if you want to pick it up from than end. So, just depends on how you want it to end up.

07-10-2019, 06:07 PM	#142
sharp21 Member Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: Spring, TX Posts: 76	Re: First Flathead Build A little progress. Got the mushroom off Then got the two sheared bolts drilled out. Damned if I can find my extractor set though... Next problem. I don’t have a socket that can get onto these cam gear bolts! The small gear is interfering... And finally, it just occurred to me that I have no idea where to hook the engine lift to, now that it is stripped down! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

07-10-2019, 08:13 PM	#143
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: First Flathead Build Extractor is not the way to go on a head bolt. Not finding it is most likely a blessing! You break off an extractor and you just complicate the problem and it is highly unlikely it would work anyway. Best method is to weld a nut to it and turn it out that way. The cast iron in the block will not be bothered by the weld and the heat will break the rust bond.

07-10-2019, 09:06 PM	#144
flatjack9 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oshkosh, Wi Posts: 4,526	Re: First Flathead Build There is a lock plate with tabs that bend up to the flats on those bolts. Must tap those down flat. I use a 1/2" 1/4 drive socket to remove those bolts.

07-10-2019, 10:00 PM	#145
leon bee Senior Member Join Date: May 2017 Location: Arkansas Posts: 611	Re: First Flathead Build I'm no expert, but get along real well. Try different sockets, you'll find one that gets in there on those bolts. And if you don't have a little MIG welder, well you need one and that broken bolt is your justification.

07-11-2019, 12:11 PM	#147
tubman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys Posts: 10,312	Re: First Flathead Build About welders; I had a 250 AMP Miller "buzzbox" for years and used it a lot. It was great for building frames, etc., but there was a lot it couldn't do. I eventually ended up buying 220 volt Hobart MIG. I was never particularly enamored with it, but it got me through. A couple of years ago, I became intrigued with the newer, smaller stick welders using Inverter technology, rather than transformer. I ended up buying an Everlast unit from Amazon, so I could have regular arc capabilities, as well as being able to upgrade it to a TIG. What I found was that "regular" arc welders have a lot more capability these days than the old "buzzboxes" did. The main thing is you are able to use both straight and reverse polarity on DC and regular AC. That, and a thorough knowledge of the welding rods available and their properties and intended purposes opened up a whole new world for me. Do you know you can "stickweld" aluminum? You can with the proper welder and rod. The welder, though made in China, is of high quality and quite reasonably priced. I am going to update it to a TIG someday, but the tank, etc. will cost almost as much as the welder did. I hardly use my Hobart at all lately.

07-12-2019, 04:17 AM	#148
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,747	Re: First Flathead Build You should be able to get to the cam bolts with a small offset ring spanner. Don't know what it would be called there in the usa. Like said above, make sure you've knocked the tabs back first. I've lifted a bare block before now by bolting an open end spanner (wrench) between the most central inlet manifold bolt holes. big washers under the bolt heads, just bolt the spanner down and lift on the central part of the spanner. Mart.

07-13-2019, 08:36 AM	#150
sharp21 Member Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: Spring, TX Posts: 76	Re: First Flathead Build Progress! Did someone recommend a 12” x 3/16 drill bit? Because that made short work of drilling out the lifter bores! I also got the cam gear off (using the box spanner). Next up I’m going to strip the heads. It’s interesting to note the differences between the two sides. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

07-13-2019, 10:04 AM	#151
sharp21 Member Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: Spring, TX Posts: 76	Re: First Flathead Build Oh and trying to extract the sheared bolts definitely didn’t work. Broke my extractor in two. This is the kick in the pants I need to get a 220 outlet installed for my welder. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

07-13-2019, 10:49 AM	#152
sharp21 Member Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: Spring, TX Posts: 76	Re: First Flathead Build Question; the machine shop I’m going to use does a back/shot blast process. I’m going to have them do the block, heads, etc. Should I break down the water pumps and have them do those too? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

07-13-2019, 11:09 AM	#153
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,747	Re: First Flathead Build What did we say? Don't use an extractor! Now the machine shop will have to get the stud and half an extractor out. Unless you got lucky and it came out. Good luck with the rest of it. Mart.

07-13-2019, 12:16 PM	#154
RalphM Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: North Pole, Alaska Posts: 2,651	Re: First Flathead Build Water pumps will have to be rebuilt so no reason to blast those. If you send them to a rebuilder they will take care of all that. Heads are built differently because the distributor bolts to the right head front and the oil filter bolts on to the left head on rear. Do a search there are several Rebuilders of water pumps on the Ford Barn.

07-13-2019, 02:22 PM	#155
sharp21 Member Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: Spring, TX Posts: 76	Re: First Flathead Build What is this thing and why is it only in one head? One way valve? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

07-13-2019, 02:41 PM	#158
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,747	Re: First Flathead Build It's a thermostat and there should be on on both sides.

07-23-2019, 06:11 PM	#159
sharp21 Member Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: Spring, TX Posts: 76	Re: First Flathead Build Finally got this bolt that was in the head to break loose. Turns out all it needed was a gallon of 50/50 and 200 hammer strikes. And with that the only thing left to remove is the oil pump idler gear in the back of the block. I don’t have a slide hammer so am gonna see if the shop will do that for me. And now for my next problem: what do I hook my hoist to in order to lift the block? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

07-23-2019, 06:34 PM	#160
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: First Flathead Build Intake manifold bolts (more than one), bolt holes on the front of the block, etc. Depends on the orientation you want the block in. There are two sets of holes on either side of the timing cover that are not used for anything that can be used if you are wanting to pick it up from the front end. Bellhousing bolt holes in the back if you want to pick it up from than end. So, just depends on how you want it to end up. Last edited by JSeery; 07-23-2019 at 06:41 PM.