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01-04-2011, 04:11 PM | #1 |
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Newbe From New Zealand
Not sure if the intro thing is as common here as the Hamb but anyway, My name is John and I'm a Ford-o-holic, I have a 36 Ford and a 57 Ford with Flathead and Y block power plants, I use the same handle on the Hamb and came to the Ford Barn to seek knowledge for my first flathead rebuild. Seems theres a wealth of knowledge here and I recognize a few from the Y Blocks forever site also.(great guys over there)
So I picked up a real nice bare 69A block, crank and a set of 8BA rods and pistons, a set of alloy Canadian C7RA heads, then I purchased a Isky Max 1 8BA cam to run a 8BA distributor and a new set of hollow adjustables, an 8BA valve train all from Red's, a pair of new truck 8BA water pumps, HV oil pump, best gasket kit, and a new Stromberg 97 locally, So I still have a few items to collect to get a complete engine as this thing was all just parts, but its off to the machine shop next week to get bored, valves etc and I should get her back as a short block. In the meantime I need to find a oil pan, flywheel, intake etc locally whilst the machine work is being done, cant wait to get it in the 36. She currently has a Ford Pilot 21 stud V8 and the only thing it passes is oil past the rings, been a good soldier all the same. Keep you posted. Last edited by Fairlane500; 01-06-2011 at 08:40 PM. |
01-04-2011, 04:20 PM | #2 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
Welcome, John! While you're waiting for the block and parts, what about re-doing the 21 studder? 8^)
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01-04-2011, 05:04 PM | #3 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
John,welcome to the barn. Your 97 will not work with a 8BA dizzy,[no vacume connection] You must use a 8BA # ford-holley.You cannot use manifold vacume either. You must use the port on the rear of the 8BA carb. ken ct usa
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01-04-2011, 05:17 PM | #4 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
Thanks Ken, I havent sorted a distributor yet and have not ruled out any options, I see a few here and the HAMB running Bubbas Chev modification (contact or petronix), MSD or Mallory unilite, Not sure which direction I will go yet!!! See what other info turns up here. Regards
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01-04-2011, 05:30 PM | #5 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
Hi.
Welcome to the Barn. (From a relative newcomer) As you're mixing and matching parts, you could (if you are stuck) use the sump, flywheel and starter off your 21stud. You need to keep them together as a matched set, as the starter and ring gear teeth are different, and the mounting of the starter to the sump is different. But as a set, they would fit your 59A block and crank. Mart. |
01-04-2011, 05:36 PM | #6 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
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As a last resort I would do that, this 21 stud I have has a 11 inch clutch and flywheel pattern only, I want to run a 9 inch set up as this 21 stud is lazy as with the 11 inch, I would also like to keep using the car till the engines done,, and I would like to run it up and get confident with tune etc before installing. Good info though thanks, regards. |
01-04-2011, 09:02 PM | #7 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
Fairlane500. Make sure the machine shop that is building your short block puts the main line oil plug in behind the cam gear. Alot of people leave that out and no oil pressure. There is also one in the rear of the block. You really don't need a HV oil pump in a street engine with stock oil clearances. To much oil pressure is not good. A standard M-19 oil pump with a truck pickup tube will work fine in your 59 engine. Walt
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01-04-2011, 09:50 PM | #8 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
Thanks for the advice Walt appreciated. Regards.
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01-05-2011, 09:40 AM | #9 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
Welcome to the new Fordbarn. It's always nice to have newbies to help. Listen to the engine gurus who post here for some good advice. One thing I thought about when you mention running an 8BA distributor is that you must also use an 8ba timing gear and crank gear to get correct rotation. You probably already knew this but thought I would mention anyway. Also, don't forget that that little 21 studder can be built up to run with the bigger dogs as well. Good luck!
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01-05-2011, 09:47 AM | #10 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
Hi Fairlane500; I wouldn't run a high volume oil pump for the engine you're building. Good luck, and welcome, Craig.
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01-05-2011, 03:39 PM | #11 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
Thanks for the feedback and comments guys appreciate it, with the HV oil pump what is the main concerns there??? Delaminating bearings from too higher oil pressure???? I was of the understanding that HV oil pumps were quite commonly used???? is this not the case????, please I appreciate everyones comments as I learn here. I believe the pump pictured below I purchased from So-Cal Speed Shop is the same as what is used on the French Flatheads. Regards
Last edited by Fairlane500; 01-05-2011 at 03:50 PM. |
01-05-2011, 05:09 PM | #12 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
I too am interested to learn about the high volume pump as I bought one for my 35 block. What's the issues regarding this as I require a long term reliable motor as the car is being built as a wedding car.
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01-05-2011, 08:33 PM | #13 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
Walt, Question for you what is this pump i have bought called a M?? Will it be o.k.? Is it even a HV pump??? Appreciate any info from anyone on this pump pictured above, Regards
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01-05-2011, 08:36 PM | #14 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
Try Horopito for a sump.
They still have plenty of flatheads lying around. Chris.NZ. 06 755 0818 |
01-05-2011, 09:36 PM | #15 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
Hi Fairlane500; I believe Melling M 19 is the later 8BA 60lb pump, Craig.
Last edited by Craig CT; 01-28-2011 at 10:39 PM. |
01-06-2011, 01:42 AM | #16 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
good to see another kiwi spreading there wings trev
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01-06-2011, 05:08 AM | #17 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
Thanks and I will tomorrow. Cheers
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01-06-2011, 02:04 PM | #18 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
what part of nz are you in ?? spyder caps are available in usa
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01-06-2011, 05:14 PM | #19 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
I have a flywheel and pressure plate[new] if you want it.Pm me.Cheers Tony.May also have an intake,need to check my stash.
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01-06-2011, 08:43 PM | #20 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
Picked up a cast steel intake and a unknown flywheel today for the project, are the 9" and 10" clutches the same mounting bolt pattern???? I would like to run a 10" Clutch???
I drug the block out today from under the bench and it is actually a C69A block not a C59A as I thought, which I think is better??? More cylinder wall meat is this correct???
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Life is not a dress rehearsal... Last edited by Fairlane500; 01-06-2011 at 08:51 PM. |
01-07-2011, 04:33 AM | #21 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
9" and 10" bolt patterns are different.
You are correct; C69A block has really thick cylinder walls. Welcome from yet another bloody kiwi! Brian |
01-07-2011, 04:53 AM | #22 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
Cheers Brian, That's good because I want to take it out to 3 5/16 bore, any idea on the PCD for the different clutch mounting bolt patterns??? I want to get a clutch disc and cover sorted so I can get the rotating assembly balanced whilst it's at the machine shop.
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01-07-2011, 01:05 PM | #23 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
11 1/4" PCD for the 10" long style pressure plate, although a bit hard to measure as the holes are not diametrically opposite. Brian
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01-07-2011, 03:24 PM | #24 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
Ok, you guys running hollow adjustable lifters, at rebuild do you
A. Adjust lifters with the wrenches or B. Drill lifter bores to 3/16 or similar to fit locking device? Why? All feedback appreciated.
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01-07-2011, 04:30 PM | #25 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
well if you use a hot cam the lifters sit lower in the bores making it real hard to use the spanners,,i always drill my lifter bores so i just put a punch inthere to stop lifter turning easy peasy,,ol ron made a grinder to take the top of the lifter bore down so you could use spanner ,,hope this helps .where you located in nz fairlane trev nz
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01-07-2011, 04:59 PM | #26 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
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01-07-2011, 06:29 PM | #27 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
Well thats a positive because thats what i have with this one I picked up yesterday, It is supposedly a 47 flywheel, so that rings true. I had a dig around the shed for some old clutches and found an 11 disc and cover, but then when I went through some of my old Y block stuff I found a 10" cover and disc from a NZ assembled 56 Customline. It has a 10 inch clutch disc and cover. The cover fits the bolt hole pattern and looks to be the same as a flathead??? The clutch plate has a fine spline but measures at 10" so I am hoping this will work with a Flathead 10" clutch plate, looks identical to the pics on the net. It does not cross reference in the Macs book but then our Customlines had many subtle differences than the US assembled versions too.
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Life is not a dress rehearsal... Last edited by Fairlane500; 01-07-2011 at 08:26 PM. |
01-08-2011, 02:04 AM | #28 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
it wont fit if your using a early trans you need the thick spline v trev
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01-08-2011, 03:42 AM | #29 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
Not using the disc just the pressure plate, yes the cusso one has a fine spline.
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01-08-2011, 09:32 AM | #30 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
It should work as long as the three release lever heads match the flatty release bearing. Do you have a known flatty clutch cover of any diameter? as long as it matches that it should be ok.
Mart. |
01-08-2011, 03:22 PM | #31 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
Good thinking Mart, I will check it against the 11 inch cover I have here, thanks.
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01-09-2011, 03:57 AM | #32 | |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
Quote:
After three emails and two phone calls I finally got hold of a woman there. She wanted $55 + GST and freight for a used part that I ended up buying new from the US for $37 including freight! Their customer service is zero. |
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01-09-2011, 01:23 PM | #33 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
yes bassman i dont know how they stay in business,there stuff has been lying around that long outside its crap,
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01-09-2011, 03:00 PM | #34 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
There are 2 flaty sumps on trademe at present,50 bucks each,no sump plugs but AJs might have them.As to horopito I tripped over an 8ba there, all there but gauranteed to be stuck and probily cracked,I asked the price, $750,too much to my mind for what would mostly be only parts,but hey someday somone will pay that.Cheers Tony.
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01-10-2011, 01:35 AM | #35 | |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
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Hi Fairlane 500 from another kiwi GB Lower Hutt
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01-10-2011, 03:51 AM | #36 | |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
Quote:
Is the starter mounting bolt threads an easy fix???
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01-10-2011, 05:00 AM | #37 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
Fairlane500...... if you're looking for flathead stuff, try Bryan Church 06 8444510. He has a LOT of flathead bits. He's in Napier, near me.
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01-10-2011, 03:03 PM | #38 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
Hi Fairlane500, I have a friend here in Dunedin who may be able to help with the Spyders you are looking for. I will check with him and get back to you. I know he has a full set of '37's for sale and maybe some spare '36's as well. Cheers, Meric.
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01-28-2011, 09:19 PM | #39 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
OK I picked up a really nice 46-48 sump with oil filter fittings, starter cap in place so thats the last thing I needed, Dropping off to the machine shop the rest of the parts to get going with them, going to have to wait a little now for some bearings to turn up I think.
Prolly a dumb question but what was the intention of the split pin in the rear clutch area of the oil pan??? What was its function???
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01-28-2011, 09:32 PM | #40 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
Oh, you mean the famous cotter key pin. It's function of course was to keep the great cotter pin industry from going bankrupt during the Great Depression. 8^)
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01-28-2011, 10:20 PM | #41 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
Nice one Jack, it looks like it's just there to rattle around to stop the hole blocking up??? Maybe!
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01-28-2011, 10:49 PM | #42 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
You had better be quick at Horopito,I stopped off there twice in the last couple of weeks and cleaned them out of old v8 parts,lol.
But they atre right there is flathead stuff lying around every where, Lawrie |
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01-28-2011, 11:14 PM | #43 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
Nice pic Lawrie, I live in NZ and have never been there!!! There are some large personal collections around NZ that would make your eyes water, one in particular here had my jaw scraping on the ground!!!!
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01-29-2011, 04:01 AM | #44 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
danliveshere-
One of the things I found with using a high pressure/volume oil pump in the early blocks is the increased leakage you get at the rear main. This may or may not be a problem in your situation. However, there is no rear oil seal in a conventional sense on these blocks and leakage at this point becomes problematic. If you increase oil pressure things seem to get worse. Again, I am only talking about my experience others may not have had this problem. Tom |
01-29-2011, 10:58 AM | #45 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
Thanks for the tip, Tom. When I get closer to reassembling the motor I'll get some help on the forum as to the best method of installing the gaskets, rear seal and pan.
Dan. |
01-29-2011, 02:25 PM | #46 | ||
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
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Quote:
Quote:
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02-01-2011, 04:08 AM | #47 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
Anyone Stateside know of a reputable supplier for 39-48 .400 Offenhauser Heads, Reds are out of stock until April 2011 and Speedway have not replied to any emails... Need to ship outside US so a friendly retailer required.
Any help appreciated
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02-01-2011, 02:54 PM | #48 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
send my your cell # to [email protected]
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02-01-2011, 02:54 PM | #49 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
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02-02-2011, 02:23 AM | #50 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
hi magoos in masterton has them,also american parts in christchurch.You need to spend a bit of time working out exchange rates and postage,but maybe cheaper buying local.The US postal charges are a killer these days,even with our good exchange rate.Cheers tony.
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02-02-2011, 02:27 AM | #51 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
Aint that the truth, freight is a killer...
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02-10-2011, 03:11 AM | #52 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
Got my last package of parts on Tuesday so its all set to go together once the machining is finished, been busy bead blasting all the old collected parts, its great to rejuvenate old parts, a quick degrease, pressure wash and bead blast and voila!!!
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02-10-2011, 08:39 PM | #53 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
In regards to your oil pump: it seems the French pumps are easier to modify for full flow filter use. See this post on the other Flathead site for the details. You probably need to join to see the pictures.
http://flatheadv8.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1803 |
02-11-2011, 12:06 AM | #54 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
Thanks for posting Bill,
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02-11-2011, 11:54 PM | #55 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
Ok, Fitting 8BA pumps to a C69A block, how have you blanked of the 8BA bleed hole??? Welch plug or drill and tap??? What works best???
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03-04-2011, 04:36 PM | #56 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
Well, progress on the engine has halted, the block is stuck inside the cordon area of the earthquake zone, I cant get a hold of anyone at the business as they have no access to their business to date, so I guess its a waiting game to see what condition their building is in and what its contents now look like, for now I have no engine and no parts... Hopefully its not back to square one. Keep yall posted.
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03-04-2011, 07:25 PM | #57 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
Welcome, Mate.
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03-04-2011, 11:48 PM | #58 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
Thanks Ron, I treasure your posts, great to see you back up and at em again,
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05-14-2011, 04:55 PM | #59 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
Making progress, hopefully finished in the next month
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05-14-2011, 05:37 PM | #60 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
Another REAL good place for parts is AJAYS in Whaihi.
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05-14-2011, 06:08 PM | #61 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
Looking good John. I take it you're not going to run a fan? Brian
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05-14-2011, 07:15 PM | #62 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
I run a 16" electric on her at the moment so just going to run a 8BA powermaster alternator withour fan drive.
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05-14-2011, 08:35 PM | #63 | |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
Quote:
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05-14-2011, 08:42 PM | #64 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
Thanks Walt, thats great information, I appreciate that. I am awaiting a distributor from Bubba for it so hopefully its not to far away. We did exactly as you said with the balancing of the PP and FW and marked the mounting relationship accordingly after balancing the entire rotating assembly. John
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05-14-2011, 08:48 PM | #65 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
Clutch is a 1946-48 Style I think, which was what the flywheel was from so I was told so I figured I would try to keep it compatible. At 276 cube I dont know what the HP increase would be over the standard 100HP 48 engine so I figured 10" would be o.k.
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Life is not a dress rehearsal... Last edited by Fairlane500; 10-19-2012 at 05:37 PM. |
05-15-2011, 07:38 AM | #66 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
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05-15-2011, 07:57 AM | #67 | |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
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05-15-2011, 05:07 PM | #68 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
what you bore the engine to to get 274ci
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05-15-2011, 06:37 PM | #69 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
3 5/16 and a 4" stroke crank.
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05-15-2011, 06:39 PM | #70 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
Joe, yes had the block acid dipped twice and hot tanked three times, sonic tested the bores and crack tested the block. Had two small cracks from studs to water holes, nothing to be concerned about I was told by the engine machine shop. Its one of the cleanest flathead blocks I have seen and the best I could get.
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05-16-2011, 05:23 AM | #71 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
No, you do not need a different gear set in order to turn something the correct direction.
The only issue with a HV pump is related to the amount of oil which is sometimes bypassed and therefore can contribute to adding temperature to the oil. The fact that the HV pump is not necessary does not mean it will cause damage. It won't. The pictured pump is not the typical HV pump. |
05-25-2011, 03:22 AM | #72 | |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
Quote:
I do have a question, do you guys plug a relief valve when running a relief valve equipped pump or just run the two??? JG
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05-25-2011, 12:26 PM | #73 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
Enjoy
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05-27-2011, 09:47 PM | #74 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
Test fitting some more parts getting things ready before paint.
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Life is not a dress rehearsal... Last edited by Fairlane500; 05-27-2011 at 10:02 PM. |
05-27-2011, 10:11 PM | #75 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
nice motor, i have a high volume pump in my 35 motor, also i am running both pressure relief valves i have about 20 lb of pressure at idle and about 55 to 57 lb at 50 mph
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05-27-2011, 10:18 PM | #76 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
Thanks Brendan for the info, thats good to know.
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07-23-2011, 06:36 PM | #77 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
Anyone have a reliable source for 8BA electronic distributors for a flathead, will look at any options as I want to get this engine finished.
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07-23-2011, 07:59 PM | #78 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
Fairlane, Your question should read: "Anyone have a source for a reliable electronic distributor..."
From all reports here in Shaky California, electronic ignitions are heat sensitive and unreliable. Best to stick to original Ford.
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Alan |
04-05-2012, 02:29 AM | #79 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
Well a year after my first post on the barn about this Flathead rebuild it finally lives.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwbDe...ature=youtu.be
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04-05-2012, 03:31 AM | #80 |
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Re: Newbe From New Zealand
Beautiful!!
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