The Ford Barn

28ACoupe · 06-07-2023, 05:04 PM

Hi all,

I just took possession of my Dad's 1929 Tudor. It has been in storage for about 5 years or so without much driving.

When I went out to get it running again, it belched out a ton of white smoke that smelled of anti-freeze.

Anyways, I am all for trying easy stuff first. Or so I thought.

Someone at some time in this car's life rebuilt the engine and glued the head on with some kind of extra terrestrial strength Tite-bond 4056 or something...

Needless to say, I am having a terrible time getting the head off the block. My plan is to soak the studs for the next couple of days with penetrating oil and try again.

Anyone else have any suggestions?

J Franklin · 06-07-2023, 05:17 PM

Put a few nuts back on the studs loose and fire it up.

Ernie Vitucci · 06-07-2023, 05:17 PM

Good afternoon...I would think that you might well need one of the head pullers that works by putting downward pressure on the head bolts...available from the usual suspects...have often seen a block deck ruined by someone using all sorts of different wedges and screw drivirs to pry the head of a Model A loose. Ernie in Arizona

JayJay · 06-07-2023, 05:59 PM

I've not had a head that didn't fight me. I use an engine hoist with a load leveler, and two of those ring adapters that go into the spark plug holes. Having said that, it usually takes me a bunch of upwards pressure combined with cussing and whacking of the side of the head with a dead blow hammer to bust it loose. Once it's loose I use a succession of plastic wedges to gradually lift it equally off the block while keeping upward pressure. Don't be surprised if it suddenly "pops" while lifting up.

However, you might try torquing the head down, running it for a while then doing a compression test to see if there is indication of head gasket, valve or ring problems before you pull the head. No need to manufacture trouble if none is needed. I find that the stud that holds the distributor clamp is quite sensitive to head torque (and is often loosened to remove the distributor and not tightened correctly). That hole is connected to the water jacket and if it's loose and allowing coolant into #3 and #4 you would get the symptoms described.

JayJay

28ACoupe · 06-07-2023, 06:56 PM

Update: When I removed all the nuts off the studs, I don't believe any of them were torqued over about 30-35 pounds. It appears that someone started the job, but didn't finish it.

I am going to get the head off and while it is off, send it out and have it checked for flat. Better to take a few more days and make sure it is right than to do this job again.

goldie · 06-07-2023, 09:50 PM

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Last week I removed the head on the "A", this was my first attempt in the few months of ownership. I first backed off on the nuts and cranked the engine but no movement. Soaked with penetrant still nothing. Decided to remove studs using a tool my son gave me as a gift that I thought I would never have a use for, an air hammer/chisel. With the pointed attachment I pounded on studs with the nuts raised above the studs a bit, this locked the nut to the stud, and was able to remove the studs. Use a straight downward force. The head was easily removed, no prying or wedges were necessary.

JayJay · 06-08-2023, 12:30 PM

goldie - You got lucky. Often times old studs break as you are removing them (happened to me last week) and then you are scrod. Better is to remove the head with studs intact (some studs may come with their nuts as you remove the nuts, that's OK) and then decide what you want to do about the studs. You can always reinstall a head with intact studs. If you break one trying to remove it then you are committed.

In my case last week I'd already decided to replace the studs, so breaking one was a hiccup but didn't alter the fundamentals of the project.

My $0.02 worth.

JayJay

BillCNC · 06-08-2023, 03:41 PM

Mine took weeks.

Soaked it with everything under the sun and nothing. I bought the headremoval tool, still nothing. I lifted the cars front end off the ground by picking it up with the tool, still nothing. Welded the nuts and they kept breaking.

FINALLY working with putty knives, lifting and wiggling the studs within the stud holes in the head was what finally started getting it free. Oh, I waived a 3-pound sledge hammer at it as well. There was a bunch of rust between the studs and the head that needed to be broken up and vacuumed out giving room for the studs to pull through the head holes. I did have to drill the 2 passanger side front and rear corner studs.

Regards
Bill

Bigsnapper43 · 06-08-2023, 09:41 PM

After much soaking we use a small jack under the waterpump mount pad to get the head started comming up. Once it starts go back down and come up again.

28ACoupe · 06-12-2023, 05:21 PM

UPDATE: Soaked for about a week. Kinda got the front of the head moved. Maybe 1/32" or so.

I think it is time to bring out the big guns. I have pulled a bunch of these over the years and have never seen one that was so stuck.

JayJay · 06-12-2023, 05:44 PM

Two 7/16-20 jam nuts are about the same height as the standard head nut. If you want to try removing some studs you could remove the regular nut, thread on the two jam nuts, and then try to back out the stud. With the jam nuts you can also do the back and forth thing on the stud. If you can get the stud at least moving that will break up any rust between the stud and the head. Removing a few studs helps tremendously in getting a head off.

JayJay

jack backer · 06-12-2023, 06:18 PM

If you wipe never seize on the stud shoulders the head will slide off

katy · 06-12-2023, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jack backer

If you wipe never seize on the stud shoulders the head will slide off

At what point of the head removal process does one "wipe never seize on the stud shoulders", to make it slide off?

Bob Bidonde · 06-13-2023, 07:22 AM

This technique to loosen the cylinder head works for me:

jack backer · 06-13-2023, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katy

At what point of the head removal process does one "wipe never seize on the stud shoulders", to make it slide off?

On reinstallation. Took it for granted most would realize that.Fight a head once? Ok .. fight a second time? Not if you neversieze the studs.

nkaminar · 06-13-2023, 07:57 AM

If you can, remove all the studs.

JayJay · 06-13-2023, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Bidonde

This technique to loosen the cylinder head works for me:

I like this. I have been using a long 2x4 and prying up under the water pump boss but this looks much more elegant. Thanks for sharing, Bob.

JayJay

chap52 · 06-16-2023, 07:39 AM

"Looking elegant" is my goal with any project that someone may walk in while I am doing it. Behind closed doors I still have a few issues... LOL... Just me?
Enjoy the adventure...Chap

Joe K · 06-16-2023, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nkaminar

If you can, remove all the studs.

THIS is the tool you want. https://www.autozone.com/tools-and-e...tor/52437_0_0?

About $20 at AutoZone. Will crimp threads, but chasing them will restore enough thread to allow the stud to be re-used.

It is amazing how it simultaneously "grabs" and tightens under the use of an impact wrench.

Joe K

ABento · 06-17-2023, 10:45 PM

I had to remove a 6 cylinder head off of a Contintental engine, kryoil between the head and the studs, candle wax also, the torch on the outside of the head where the studs were, then I built jacking plates, I put the nts back on the top of the studs and leveled them out, then got all thread that fit the plug holes, drilled the plates for the all thread and used the all thread nuts to pull the head up to the jack plates, although I let it sit overnight with pressure, then carefully used a putty knife to start the head moving up, as the plugs are off center toy had to work the opposite side of the head to get ti to move, it finally did.

06-07-2023, 05:04 PM	#1
28ACoupe Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 559	Pulling my head out... Hi all, I just took possession of my Dad's 1929 Tudor. It has been in storage for about 5 years or so without much driving. When I went out to get it running again, it belched out a ton of white smoke that smelled of anti-freeze. Anyways, I am all for trying easy stuff first. Or so I thought. Someone at some time in this car's life rebuilt the engine and glued the head on with some kind of extra terrestrial strength Tite-bond 4056 or something... Needless to say, I am having a terrible time getting the head off the block. My plan is to soak the studs for the next couple of days with penetrating oil and try again. Anyone else have any suggestions? __________________ 1928 Model A Business Coupe Rebuild picture gallery here The light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off due to budget cuts.

06-07-2023, 05:17 PM	#2
J Franklin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oregon Posts: 5,963	Re: Pulling my head out... Put a few nuts back on the studs loose and fire it up.

06-07-2023, 06:56 PM	#5
28ACoupe Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 559	Re: Pulling my head out... Update: When I removed all the nuts off the studs, I don't believe any of them were torqued over about 30-35 pounds. It appears that someone started the job, but didn't finish it. I am going to get the head off and while it is off, send it out and have it checked for flat. Better to take a few more days and make sure it is right than to do this job again. __________________ 1928 Model A Business Coupe Rebuild picture gallery here The light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off due to budget cuts.

06-07-2023, 09:50 PM	#6
goldie Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2022 Posts: 25	Re: Pulling my head out... Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Last week I removed the head on the "A", this was my first attempt in the few months of ownership. I first backed off on the nuts and cranked the engine but no movement. Soaked with penetrant still nothing. Decided to remove studs using a tool my son gave me as a gift that I thought I would never have a use for, an air hammer/chisel. With the pointed attachment I pounded on studs with the nuts raised above the studs a bit, this locked the nut to the stud, and was able to remove the studs. Use a straight downward force. The head was easily removed, no prying or wedges were necessary.

06-08-2023, 12:30 PM	#7
JayJay Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 1,076	Re: Pulling my head out... goldie - You got lucky. Often times old studs break as you are removing them (happened to me last week) and then you are scrod. Better is to remove the head with studs intact (some studs may come with their nuts as you remove the nuts, that's OK) and then decide what you want to do about the studs. You can always reinstall a head with intact studs. If you break one trying to remove it then you are committed. In my case last week I'd already decided to replace the studs, so breaking one was a hiccup but didn't alter the fundamentals of the project. My $0.02 worth. JayJay __________________ JayJay San Francisco Bay Area ------------------------ 1930 Murray Town Sedan 1931 Briggs S/W Town Sedan

06-07-2023, 05:17 PM	#3
Ernie Vitucci Senior Member Join Date: May 2016 Location: Scottsdale, Arizona Posts: 612	Re: Pulling my head out... Good afternoon...I would think that you might well need one of the head pullers that works by putting downward pressure on the head bolts...available from the usual suspects...have often seen a block deck ruined by someone using all sorts of different wedges and screw drivirs to pry the head of a Model A loose. Ernie in Arizona

06-07-2023, 05:59 PM	#4
JayJay Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 1,076	Re: Pulling my head out... I've not had a head that didn't fight me. I use an engine hoist with a load leveler, and two of those ring adapters that go into the spark plug holes. Having said that, it usually takes me a bunch of upwards pressure combined with cussing and whacking of the side of the head with a dead blow hammer to bust it loose. Once it's loose I use a succession of plastic wedges to gradually lift it equally off the block while keeping upward pressure. Don't be surprised if it suddenly "pops" while lifting up. However, you might try torquing the head down, running it for a while then doing a compression test to see if there is indication of head gasket, valve or ring problems before you pull the head. No need to manufacture trouble if none is needed. I find that the stud that holds the distributor clamp is quite sensitive to head torque (and is often loosened to remove the distributor and not tightened correctly). That hole is connected to the water jacket and if it's loose and allowing coolant into #3 and #4 you would get the symptoms described. JayJay __________________ JayJay San Francisco Bay Area ------------------------ 1930 Murray Town Sedan 1931 Briggs S/W Town Sedan

06-08-2023, 03:41 PM	#8
BillCNC Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: SoCal Desert Posts: 826	Re: Pulling my head out... Mine took weeks. Soaked it with everything under the sun and nothing. I bought the headremoval tool, still nothing. I lifted the cars front end off the ground by picking it up with the tool, still nothing. Welded the nuts and they kept breaking. FINALLY working with putty knives, lifting and wiggling the studs within the stud holes in the head was what finally started getting it free. Oh, I waived a 3-pound sledge hammer at it as well. There was a bunch of rust between the studs and the head that needed to be broken up and vacuumed out giving room for the studs to pull through the head holes. I did have to drill the 2 passanger side front and rear corner studs. Regards Bill

06-08-2023, 09:41 PM	#9
Bigsnapper43 Member Join Date: Feb 2023 Posts: 84	Re: Pulling my head out... After much soaking we use a small jack under the waterpump mount pad to get the head started comming up. Once it starts go back down and come up again.

06-12-2023, 05:21 PM	#10
28ACoupe Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 559	Re: Pulling my head out... UPDATE: Soaked for about a week. Kinda got the front of the head moved. Maybe 1/32" or so. I think it is time to bring out the big guns. I have pulled a bunch of these over the years and have never seen one that was so stuck. __________________ 1928 Model A Business Coupe Rebuild picture gallery here The light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off due to budget cuts.

06-12-2023, 05:44 PM	#11
JayJay Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 1,076	Re: Pulling my head out... Two 7/16-20 jam nuts are about the same height as the standard head nut. If you want to try removing some studs you could remove the regular nut, thread on the two jam nuts, and then try to back out the stud. With the jam nuts you can also do the back and forth thing on the stud. If you can get the stud at least moving that will break up any rust between the stud and the head. Removing a few studs helps tremendously in getting a head off. JayJay __________________ JayJay San Francisco Bay Area ------------------------ 1930 Murray Town Sedan 1931 Briggs S/W Town Sedan

06-12-2023, 06:18 PM	#12
jack backer BANNED Join Date: Mar 2022 Location: Chenango Bridge NY Posts: 433	Re: Pulling my head out... If you wipe never seize on the stud shoulders the head will slide off

06-13-2023, 07:57 AM	#16
nkaminar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 3,897	Re: Pulling my head out... If you can, remove all the studs. __________________ A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.

06-16-2023, 07:39 AM	#18
chap52 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Marana Arizona Posts: 1,776	Re: Pulling my head out... "Looking elegant" is my goal with any project that someone may walk in while I am doing it. Behind closed doors I still have a few issues... LOL... Just me? Enjoy the adventure...Chap

06-17-2023, 10:45 PM	#20
ABento Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: San Luis Obispo Posts: 237	Re: Pulling my head out... I had to remove a 6 cylinder head off of a Contintental engine, kryoil between the head and the studs, candle wax also, the torch on the outside of the head where the studs were, then I built jacking plates, I put the nts back on the top of the studs and leveled them out, then got all thread that fit the plug holes, drilled the plates for the all thread and used the all thread nuts to pull the head up to the jack plates, although I let it sit overnight with pressure, then carefully used a putty knife to start the head moving up, as the plugs are off center toy had to work the opposite side of the head to get ti to move, it finally did.