help with Model A market values

[buckwild 27]

I agree 6k and 4k seems right on target

[F1_1950]

Originally Posted by ronn

Wick,
I am 5 hours north of you and at your prices- would buy 20 of them today and make a nice years salary.


Have never seen a coupe or roadster here in the last 20 yrs anywhere near 3-4k.........


the rodders would get to them way before any of you guys bought them and that has been expressed on this site many times. fact.

This is the car Wick was talking about that went for 4500$ a couple years ago. All the parts were in the garage to put it back together and was with a title.

[ronn]

my offer stands- Ill take 20 cars at 3-4k


and then there were crickets..................


lol


yes F1 that car is an anomaly

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by PotvinV8

I would say the market EXISTS thanks to the hot rod crowd. How many guys are out there actively looking for a Model A to restore as opposed to hot rod?

Look at the prices stock restorations go for versus hot rods.

To the OP's question, I purchased a stock running / driving '30 coupe with decent paint and interior for $9500 and a decent '29 roadster body for $3500 in Southern California.

Factoring in the smaller market and such, I would think the coupe would be priced around $6,000 and the roadster $4000.

Unfortunately, the Model A stuff doesn't command as high a price as the later Early Ford stuff. For example, a rolling Model A chassis goes for pennies on the dollar.

I would agree. If it wasn't for events like TROG, etc. the Model A market would be in worse shape. I know a lot of folks love them because they were cars they grew up with, but there is little interest in a stocker Model A except say a truck.

Otherwise, they will be turned into a hot rod most likely. Nothing wrong with that in my opinion.

[TerryO]

[QUOTE I know a lot of folks love them because they were cars they grew up with, but there is little interest in a stocker Model A except say a truck.

Otherwise, they will be turned into a hot rod most likely. Nothing wrong with that in my opinion.][/QUOTE]


But then they aren't the cars they grew up with...
TOB

[77Birdman]

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I would think the people interested in Model A's because they grew up with them is a very slight part of the buying segment at this point. I would define 'growing up with them' as being born in the 1920-1940 range. I know there are quite a few on this forum that may fit that category, however how many are still actively looking for a project. I read more and more in the classifieds, 'selling due to downsizing, health, etc.'

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by TerryO

[QUOTE I know a lot of folks love them because they were cars they grew up with, but there is little interest in a stocker Model A except say a truck.

Otherwise, they will be turned into a hot rod most likely. Nothing wrong with that in my opinion.]

But then they aren't the cars they grew up with...
TOB[/QUOTE]

Talking about a stocker. Hot rods can be timeless when done tastefully.

[WHN]

Originally Posted by Tim Ayers

But then they aren't the cars they grew up with...
TOB

Talking about a stocker. Hot rods can be timeless when done tastefully.[/QUOTE]

Little interest in a stock Model A Ford? I must be missing something here.

I will say that a good percentage of “Stock” Model A’s are not in the best overall condition.

However, there are a lot of restored and also well maintained drivers that are in very good shape.

At the real antique car shows, people love them. Especially the kids.

I have had no problem selling a good car. If it’s a more rare body style, there is even more of a market.

Not real expensive, parts are everywhere, easy to fix, the kids love them, what more could you want. Remember, it’s a hobby.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by 77Birdman

I would think the people interested in Model A's because they grew up with them is a very slight part of the buying segment at this point. I would define 'growing up with them' as being born in the 1920-1940 range. I know there are quite a few on this forum that may fit that category, however how many are still actively looking for a project. I read more and more in the classifieds, 'selling due to downsizing, health, etc.'

Originally Posted by Tim Ayers

But then they aren't the cars they grew up with...
TOB

Talking about a stocker. Hot rods can be timeless when done tastefully.

Actually, from my vantage point it is neither. Growing up with them from many of my customers means Dad or Grandpa had one when I was a kid and we used to be in parades or go get ice cream. I want one like that. These are people that are in their 40s - 60s.

The issue I find with the 'hot rod' crowd, they buy these with big dreams, but their plans either fizzle due to cash flow or lack of commitment. Many do purchase an older restoration and modify it to be a hot rod though.

As far as hobbyists selling due to downsizing and health issues, ...I have been involved in this hobby for well over 50 years and from what I can remember, and each generation has 'aged-out' using those same excuses. It has always been older people that purchased them however there has always been someone there to give fair market value for them in the sale. The exception has always been for the cars that are in worse condition now than what they were 10 years ago. On top of that, average prices on Model-As as a whole have always been worth more money in each subsequent decade during those 50 years.

[alexiskai]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

average prices on Model-As as a whole have always been worth more money in each subsequent decade during those 50 years.

Some of that is inflation. For example, $12,000 today buys the same as:

• $10,000 in 2010
• $8,000 in 2000
• $6,000 in 1990
• $3,500 in 1980
• $1,700 in 1970

Can't speak for everyone, but I have the purchase history for my coupe going back to 1990, and the guys who bought and sold it didn't make any money in real dollars.

[ronn]

agreed Alex


A 20. bill only buys a lunch today.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Actually, from my vantage point it is neither. Growing up with them from many of my customers means Dad or Grandpa had one when I was a kid and we used to be in parades or go get ice cream. I want one like that. These are people that are in their 40s - 60s.

The issue I find with the 'hot rod' crowd, they buy these with big dreams, but their plans either fizzle due to cash flow or lack of commitment. Many do purchase an older restoration and modify it to be a hot rod though.

As far as hobbyists selling due to downsizing and health issues, ...I have been involved in this hobby for well over 50 years and from what I can remember, and each generation has 'aged-out' using those same excuses. It has always been older people that purchased them however there has always been someone there to give fair market value for them in the sale. The exception has always been for the cars that are in worse condition now than what they were 10 years ago. On top of that, average prices on Model-As as a whole have always been worth more money in each subsequent decade during those 50 years.

Interesting perspective from someone who deals with these cars every day. Thanks for sharing.

[Kevin in NJ]

Originally Posted by alexiskai

Some of that is inflation. For example, $12,000 today buys the same as:

• $10,000 in 2010
• $8,000 in 2000
• $6,000 in 1990
• $3,500 in 1980
• $1,700 in 1970

Can't speak for everyone, but I have the purchase history for my coupe going back to 1990, and the guys who bought and sold it didn't make any money in real dollars.

This is an inaccurate way of looking at money.

You need to couple in the cost of things. So while the value of money goes up by inflation, we have the cost of things going up beyond inflation.

When you compare the total amount of money made to the total amount of goods you can buy that has decreased. The biggest threat to your pocket book is not taxes going up but costs of day to day things going up due to lack of competition. Consider the cost of buying a car vs average income from 1970 to today. In the 70=80's you could pay for college working 40 hours a week and have money to eat and such (14 hours of you 40 would pay for school). Today it take a little over 40 hours a week to pay for school so there is no money left over for housing or food.

As for unrestored car values, they are always worth way more then they should. I mean really you should be considering the total cost of doing a restoration and ask if you can actually afford it. Just doing the chassis properly is well over $20,000. Yes I know because I kept track on my car. Keep in mind I have the tools and abilities to do it in house. Tack on more if you have to pay someone.

The best value is always the 'restored' car. Often the restored car needs most of the mechanicals redone. It is still common to find cars that are presentable that have paint and interiors and some mechanicals done in the $10k to $15k range. You best value is to buy a car like that and slowly work the mechanics to 100%. That is your best fun to work ratio for the money.

Remember the idea is to find that comfortable fun to money spent ratio.

One final thought. It generally does not cost much more to restore a more desirable body style. So the up front extra cost for say a cabriolet may give you more payoff when you go to sell the car.

[alexiskai]

Originally Posted by Kevin in NJ

While the value of money goes up by inflation, we have the cost of things going up beyond inflation.

Inflation is literally the increase in the cost of things, that's how they calculate inflation. You're talking about the fact that the cost of labor-intensive services increases faster than inflation (aka Baumol's cost disease).

Originally Posted by Kevin in NJ

When you compare the total amount of money made to the total amount of goods you can buy that has decreased.

This is not true. Real wages are stable over the last 50 years. There are specific goods and services whose real price has increased, like education and health care, but there are also many, many goods whose real price has decreased, like consumer electronics and food.

I agree that restoration services, being labor-intensive and difficult to automate, have increased in real-dollar prices over the last 50 years, but I don't agree that you can definitively say what effect this has had on the market value of the cars themselves. I think it's notable that the price of a "driver" car, i.e. a car that isn't rare or significant for its quality or originality, seems to track pretty closely with overall inflation, so I tend to think that the cost of services is not a strong influence on market pricing.

[kawagumby]

Originally Posted by Kevin in NJ

The best value is always the 'restored' car. Often the restored car needs most of the mechanicals redone. It is still common to find cars that are presentable that have paint and interiors and some mechanicals done in the $10k to $15k range. You best value is to buy a car like that and slowly work the mechanics to 100%. That is your best fun to work ratio for the money.

That would be me. I bought my '31 deluxe roadster for $16K...restored, but had engine knock, intermittent stalling, massive oil leakage, etc. I've put about 100 hours into it as a way to keep busy during this Covid era, and I've had fun doing it. I've got about $20K into it so far and I bet I top out at less than $21K. Based on current sales prices for that model, I don't think I'm going to lose money if I do sell it someday, but if I do, it would still be worth the experience.



afterthefixes.jpg


BTW, I'm one of the guys who bought an A because they were around while I was in high school during the early sixties. My best friend had a '29 truck (two wheels up while turning, LOL), another had a roadster, and yet another had a nice four-door. I had my parent's old '53 Plymouth, SMH...

I just love the sound of an A engine...second only to a P&W 985 radial as music to my ears.

[ronn]

again, well said Alex.

50 years is a pretty good span for gauging the values of model A's
the model A today is still quite affordable, if you really want one and there is a price point for every budget. I would even argue that some of the rarer models are possibly more affordable today- with exception.


regarding college- there are still some great degrees out there for peanuts, if you do your homework. SUNY is one of them and proudly my alma mater.

[Jeff/Illinois]

Roadsters still seem to be very popular especially the '30-'31's. And always will be the rodder's love the style too.

An acquaintence just bought a 'Shelby' F-150 and he told me he paid $105,000.

Nice truck, but dude it's a TRUCK nothing more, that will be worth what $20K in 5 years IF your lucky

If eating $85,000 to be noticed by people you don't even know is important to you, well what else can I say. Wow.

In that regard bringing that back to this thread, spending $20,000 + for a very nice later Model A Roadster and then selling it in five years and getting most of your money back and probably even all of it... well it doesn't take Milton Friedman to see what was the better buy