Sensor cable to brake backplate - 2007 F150?

[Daves55Sedan]

I believe this is for the anti-lock brake system, but don't know what this does or how it causes the brakes to operate.
I bought this 2007 F150 XL (white work package) new at a dealer and kept it in excellent condition through the years. It was stolen late last month and only had 54K miles on it.
When it was found abandoned on the highway (2 tires were shredded to oblivion), the state police towed it to impound lot and I went to inspect it.
One of the wheels was removed and thrown into the bed of the truck. I could see that the thief had SNIPPED that sensor cable in half for that wheel.
Can the vehicle be driven with that cable disconnected? If so, what will be the difference in reaction to stopping when the brake pedal is depressed?

Beyond that, I am loathe to see something I cared for abused and destroyed so completely. When I first saw it in the impound lot I completely dismissed it as being somebody else's vehicle and kept searching for mine. I was astonished to find that it was indeed mine.
It was filthy, inside and out. There were tons of expensive tools and equipment inside the cab as well as in the bed and a rifle was on the floor behind the seat under a bunch of other junk. The speaker grilled was torn off the driver door and discarded and the speaker was hanging by it's wire. There were numerous deep scratches on the exterior, both front and rear bumpers have major collision damage and there are large dents in right front and left rear fenders. Not sure if the steel wheels are salvageable as they are torn up around the rims from driving on the highway with torn up tires. The brake rotors appear to be almost non-existent (worn away) although the brake calipers and pads are new. The battery was completely dead, since the thief left the emergency flashers on and locked the doors so no one would steal HIS expensive tools.
I am beginning to wonder if I may be throwing good money after bad by trying to get this thing back in at least working order, but I can't afford a new truck. New P255/65R17 tires are $140 each. I haven't even begun to look into the cost of rotors or sensor cables.

[dmsfrr]

Any insurance on the truck?
While it's generally true that anything can be fixed, is it worth the trouble?
Considering the amount of visible damage to the outside of the truck, what kind of damage was done that you can't initially see?
I'd expect the engine, transmission, suspension, frame, etc. were abused in a similar manner.

The condition of the truck sounds pretty rough. Even getting it driveable might be more than you expect. Long term reliability would be another question.
.

[KULTULZ]

... ... damn ...

Dave, I am truly sorry to hear this.

Like said, if you have comprehensive, the insurance company will write an estimate to repair or total. That will give you an idea of costs.

The wire is for the wheel speed sensor. If the ABS light comes on, the ABS is non-functional and the truck will have no valving to properly stop it. It will stop but it might scare you in the wrong situation.

Did they let you keep the tools? That will be a start for funds.

[craig]

The cut abs cable will not affect normal stopping, won't drive any different than it did before. You just won't have the anti lock brakes. Drive like you did up until the late 80's, before ABS, lightly pump the brake pedal to prevent skidding

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by craig

The cut abs cable will not affect normal stopping, won't drive any different than it did before. You just won't have the anti lock brakes. Drive like you did up until the late 80's, before ABS, lightly pump the brake pedal to prevent skidding

Well, if the anti-lock is inoperable and it took the place of previous hydraulic system valving (metering - proportioning), just how safe is it to drive? With the damaged cable, that wheel will not have the benefit of the ABS if the system is still somewhat operable and can lock up, etc.

Kind of a dangerous statement isn't it?

[fordor41]

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I've driven our Jeep liberty for 2 yrs with inoperable ABS and can see no difference in operation. I haven't had to slam the brakes on in snow or ice but in normal driving they work fine. light on dash is annoying

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by fordor41

I've driven our Jeep liberty for 2 yrs with inoperable ABS and can see no difference in operation. I haven't had to slam the brakes on in snow or ice but in normal driving they work fine. light on dash is annoying

I find it kind of hard to believe anyone would make an admission like that. You allow your wife/family to drive the car like that? Is there no inspection law in your state?

And you wonder why the FEDS want owners not to be able to work on their cars.

[rotorwrench]

The tires are likely the most expensive item. Wheels will likely be less that the tires but a lot depends if they are take offs for someone putting on aftermarket wheels or if they are new/NOS. Good salvage yard stuff is out there but may be limited on pickups. Wheel speed sensors aren't too expensive. A quick look at Rock Auto should tell for wheel/brake parts.

You must have been un-insured for comprehensive unless you are thinking of buying it back from the insurance company. Otherwise the insurance would pay. It seems that cars/pickups are totaled a lot more in this day and age due to low estimated values of the damaged vehicle and high cost of repairs. A stolen or totaled vehicle is usually owned by the insurance company after the recovery if they have all ready settled the theft or damage claim.

[dmsfrr]

tires are likely the most expensive item. ...

Don't forget the large dents in two fenders, bodywork, paint materials & labor... along with the front and rear bumpers which aren't inexpensive.

They may not be necessary for driving but they'd be a constant reminder of how nice the truck was before if left undone.

[craig]

The hydraulic valving on the ABS system is controlled electronically. If the electronics are damaged or inoperable the valving defaults to a bypass position, just as if it didn't exist, the entire ABS system becomes inoperative. This is why the vehicle will have fully operational brakes, they just won't have the ability to help prevent skidding. If the manufacturer didn't incorporate this default into the system they would be liable for countless accidents. I have seen more than one instance where the ABS malfunction light was not working and there was a bad wheel sensor cable, yet the driver had no indication that he had a brake problem.

[KULTULZ]

The hydraulic valving on the ABS system is controlled electronically. If the electronics are damaged or inoperable the valving defaults to a bypass position, just as if it didn't exist, the entire ABS system becomes inoperative. This is why the vehicle will have fully operational brakes, they just won't have the ability to help prevent skidding.

When that lamp (ABS) illuminates, it is telling you the braking system is defective (it may be more than just one wheel end sensor), same as when a split hydraulic system lamp illuminates you may have one circuit functional to hopefully stop the car safely, not to continue driving the car.

The ABS lamp gives no indication of what tripped it. It may be electronic, it may be mechanical.

If you want to brave it and drive, so be it. But at the least have some amount of consideration for the rest of us on the road.

WHAT IF you are driving on a defective system and you get into a fatal collision. Accident reconstruction scans the modules and it is discovered you have been driving the car with defective brakes. You are going to be introduced to a CIVIL COURT (if not criminal) very quickly.

Same thing with these damn MICKEY MOUSE brake swap kits. Think about the possible liability. Think about my grandchildren.

[craig]

I don't recommend driving a vehicle with any warning lights on. Please don't indicate that I do. You mentioned "the ABS light gives no indication of what tripped" that's not entirely true. It's flashing, that is indicating a code number

I am finished discussing this post with you. After reading many of your previous posts it is easy to understand that you get the last word whether you have a clue about it or not...well, right or wrong, you win... happy now?

[5851a]

Even with everything repaired it may leave a sour taste in your mouth. Sounds as though they have abused it pretty bad. You may start having premature powertrain and suspension problems. I thought 1999 and newer F150's had PATS system. How did thief get around that and sorry someone stole your property.

[Daves55Sedan]

Thanx to all who answered my questions about the brake system. I'll need to back up here and tell what my intention is. The truck is in State police impound lot (although, since it is awaiting evidence processing, it is not incurring daily storage charges). The towing charge was $340.00 (I know, the tow truck must have been gold plated). Once the police collect evidence, they contact the state and the state informs the tow company to release the truck to the owner. If owner does not immediately pick up his vehicle, $30.00 daily storage charges incur.
In January, 2009, right after I paid off the loan on the truck, I switched to State minimum liability only insurance. No theft or collision coverage. Been driving my '55 Ford car daily since 1981 on liability insurance. Never had an accident in either vehicle.
As far as the thief's tools, I believe they will be confiscated as evidence, then after one year, if they are not claimed by the owner, the police put them all up for auction. As an option, I could decline to prosecute and keep everything for myself and try to sell it all in a rummage sale. I hate the thought of having to inventory everything, research current pricing and low-ball a price to sell them. Prior to this, I have given away probably thousands of dollars worth of household items, clothing and furniture, while planning to move away from here.
I have already gotten two used tires of the proper size and had them mounted and balanced on the wheels that I took off the truck. The two tires costed $40 each and mounting and balancing costed $60 for the pair. That's $140.00 right there. I spent $23 for missing lug nuts. There are 3 missing hubcaps that cost $40 each, I have not yet purchased. There is a truck junkyard near here where I might go to look at bumpers. Not sure if the battery can be recharged (it is a little over one year old), but if not it will need a new battery which by now may cost upwards of $150.00. I don't intend to do anything about the snipped ABS sensor cable(s) until after I get the truck home.
Right now, I am only making preparations to get the truck drivable again jus to bring it home, clean it up and begin making some repairs. It is about 4 miles from the impound lot to my house. I doubt that I will ever fix the dent in the front fender or smashed in rear quarter.

[Daves55Sedan]

BTW, the two used tires I bought were new in 2014, seven years old and they have almost no tread left on them. When I took them to the tire change shop, the attendant told me that if I had brought the truck in to have those tires mounted, they wouldn't be able to do it because of the age of the tires but since I was having them mounted separately and installing them myself, they would have no liability if something bad happened.
Not sure if that's a State regulation or just company policy. Could be they just wanna sell ya new tires costing upwards of $145.00 each (for a walmart brand). And they don't sell the cheap brands. Theirs cost around $210 each.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by craig

The hydraulic valving on the ABS system is controlled electronically. If the electronics are damaged or inoperable the valving defaults to a bypass position, just as if it didn't exist, the entire ABS system becomes inoperative. This is why the vehicle will have fully operational brakes, they just won't have the ability to help prevent skidding.

Then at that point the vehicle does not have fully functional braking, correct?

If the manufacturer didn't incorporate this default into the system they would be liable for countless accidents. I have seen more than one instance where the ABS malfunction light was not working and there was a bad wheel sensor cable, yet the driver had no indication that he had a brake problem

It is the driver's responsibility to confirm the ABS lamp function at startup. If the lamp illuminates while the vehicle is in motion, the vehicle is stopped and he/she/it/mutant calls the dealer or AAA. You don't keep driving it unless you are a lawyer.

How would the auto maker be liable if the driver does not heed the MIL? The entire system operates free of the power control unit unless the module picks up a signal as to actuate the pump and at that point modifies application pressure(s).

Where did you learn about ABS?

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by craig

I don't recommend driving a vehicle with any warning lights on. Please don't indicate that I do. You mentioned "the ABS light gives no indication of what tripped" that's not entirely true. It's flashing, that is indicating a code number

It sounds to me as if you condone driving saying the system is fully functional with the ABS lamp on.

And if flashing, is the driver responsible for not having a scan tool and diagnostic chart with him?

I am finished discussing this post with you. After reading many of your previous posts it is easy to understand that you get the last word whether you have a clue about it or not...well, right or wrong, you win... happy now?

I don't win anything as how many drivers operate a vehicle with a nonfunctional ABS or mechanical problems?

Are you aware of the IGNORE FEATURE here? I think you need to put me on your list.

As finished with the discussion .... wait for it ...

[fordor41]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

I find it kind of hard to believe anyone would make an admission like that. You allow your wife/family to drive the car like that? Is there no inspection law in your state?

And you wonder why the FEDS want owners not to be able to work on their cars.

"I find it kind of hard to believe anyone would make an admission like that. You allow your wife/family to drive the car like that? Is there no inspection law in your state?" well the only accident I've ever had (since 1959) was with a Ford SUV with ABS. I was coming over a bridge that was glazed with hard packed snow and had about a block to stop. No way even with ABS. slid thru an intersection, was hit in side and spun around into another car. In my opinion all these "safety" features are because most drivers are either ignorant of how to drive are are to lazy. that's why we have power steering, ABS, backup cameras. wouldn't want Suzi to actually look at her mirrors, push hard on the brake pedal or work up a sweat turning the wheel and no ABS is not on our insp. Guess I'll have to sell my '60. Hell, no power brakes, power steering, 10 cup holders, nav. system in dash, intermittent WW wipers
or 4 ways. BTW, probably 50% of cars on the road don't have ABS so look out!

[KULTULZ]

... was with a Ford SUV with ABS. I was coming over a bridge that was glazed with hard packed snow and had about a block to stop. No way even with ABS. slid thru an intersection, was hit in side and spun around into another car.

ABS in itself will not in most cases cause the car to stop more quickly. In fact it may allow the car to experience a longer stopping distance especially on slick road. The ABS is designed to allow steering control and vehicle stability during a slide. An ABS vehicle with a non-operating system is a wild guess as to what it will do.

If you don't like or understand the principle, drive a pre-ABS car.

I don't believe I have ever activated one and I used to live/drive in WDC METRO which is alone enough to scare the hell out of you.

And as an additional note, most do not understand the pedal pulsation when activated and release the brakes. But then again, a driving test now consists of ten questions on a computer screen and is also offered in Spanish for new arrivals.

[scicala]

When there is an ABS fault, it defaults to standard normal brakes like we all used to drive. Don't understand any panic about driving the truck. Are we all turning into wimps ?

Sal

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by scicala

When there is an ABS fault, it defaults to standard normal brakes like we all used to drive. Don't understand any panic about driving the truck. Are we all turning into wimps ?

Sal

Pre-ABS Braking Systems were hydraulic valve(s) controlled.

ABS eliminated all hydraulic valving. So when the ABS goes down, you may still have service brakes (if all mechanical's are good) but you will have no skid/bias control.

I don't understand why this is so complicated.

If you go in for a STATE INSPECTION and the MIL LAMP either is on or will not come on, you either have it repaired or told to have a nice day (most likely after signing a waiver). WV slaps a red decal on your windshield and any further discussion will be with Smokey.

[rotorwrench]

Computer controlled stuff has OBD II connect so a person can check fault codes and other parameters. It may not tell which one of the four sensors are not giving a reading but the obvious damage generally tells the tail. I wouldn't be a bit afraid to run a car home to do further repairs. The computer goes in to limpy mode but only for the anti skid part.

Back in the day, we had to do anti skid manually by alternately applying and releasing the brake pedal pressure when driving on black ice and such. I like living in south Texas now since it doesn't freeze often and I avoid driving in heavy rain or icing conditions for the most part.

[scicala]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

Pre-ABS Braking Systems were hydraulic valve(s) controlled.

ABS eliminated all hydraulic valving. So when the ABS goes down, you may still have service brakes (if all mechanical's are good) but you will have no skid/bias control.

I don't understand why this is so complicated.

If you go in for a STATE INSPECTION and the MIL LAMP either is on or will not come on, you either have it repaired or told to have a nice day (most likely after signing a waiver). WV slaps a red decal on your windshield and any further discussion will be with Smokey.

Like I said, the brakes will still act normally just like cars used to before ABS was around. Nothing complicated.

Sal

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by scicala

Like I said, the brakes will still act normally just like cars used to before ABS was around. Nothing complicated.

Sal

Like I said, brakes before ABS had valving -

No they will not operate as did pre-ABS.

[Daves55Sedan]

Originally Posted by scicala

When there is an ABS fault, it defaults to standard normal brakes like we all used to drive. Don't understand any panic about driving the truck. Are we all turning into wimps ? Sal

Not panicked, just wanted to know what to expect if I tried to move the truck without the sensor cable hooked up, or if even the vehicle would move at all. Later, I went out there and was able to turn the rotor by hand, so I at least know they aren't locked up.
My apologies for never having kept up with technology. I am still living in the 1950's, not only automotive-wise, but also as far as household items and garage tools. Don't hand me an Actron engine analyzer. I wouldn't know what to do with it. Never had a sink disposer, nor an automatic dishwasher. Still have two of Alexander Graham Bell's candlestick phones here, never had a mobile-phone.
I've always babied my truck, including never slamming on the brakes and used it only when I needed to haul something. I missed my truck right away, but finally broke down and loaded 3 weeks worth of yard waste containers in the back of the '55 ford Courier wagon and dumped them at the yard waste facility.
The impound lot is big, so I intend to pull it out slowly and "test" the brakes before I pull out on the road. I only need to go 4 miles. Once I get it home, I will tear into making the repairs. No wining here.

[KULTULZ]

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Not panicked, just wanted to know what to expect if I tried to move the truck without the sensor cable hooked up, or if even the vehicle would move at all. Later, I went out there and was able to turn the rotor by hand, so I at least know they aren't locked up.

Dave, no one can tell what will happen when you are on open highway. If someone says "you will be fine" (my favorite) and you go out there and bust your a$$, said person could be held civilly liable, something HIDIN' BIDEN is about to discover.

You just want to get it home to evaluate the damage?

And no need for any apology. You have done nothing wrong.

[rotorwrench]

I have an old Brand X Cavalier that has the valving control unit. It has an electric motor that alternates the pressure application of both front and rear systems. I've only heard it activate a few times and it makes an loud odd ball noise that leaves the driver wondering WTF just happened. These set ups are electro-hydraulic but are still controlled by the computer. If it loses the wheel speed sense, it just doesn't work.

Most ABS cars have a similar system. If the brakes fail due to an ABS fault then that is grounds for a law suit so the likelihood of total failure is very little unless there are other faults in the brake system that have been ignored.

[craig]

KULTULZ, I know that I said I was done with this post, but I just can't let this thing go. First, I'd like you to understand that I have been in the auto repair buisness since 1968. I have been certified since 1974. The last 20 years I was the fleet manager at a local Sheriff's department, where 90% of the vehicles were Fords, I retired this past January. I was never a parts salesman, I just repaired the vehicles. Now, I have read many of your posts, and yes you have been correct on many issues. However, your knowledge on an ABS system is not completely accurate. I understand that you are concerned about brake failure, as we all should be. However, as the others and I have tried to explain how the system works, you just counter back with insulting remarks. Please read an actual manufacturers shop manual. Yes, it will list many warnings, but it won't tell you that the brakes will fail if the ABS light comes on

[fordor41]

"HIDIN' BIDEN" I was wondering how long before the political BS would start. If you're going to quote your savior please quote him correctly. It's "sleepy eyed Joe"

[KULTULZ]

Craig -

I too have been around cars and heavy truck since 1967, so I have a pretty good grasp on the situation. I assure you I fully understand ABS and have the needed diagnostic tools for it.

But that is enough of the BS. I think the problem here is semantics.

Now not to ruffle any feathers, you said you worked for a police fleet. What was policy for sending out a unit with the LAMP ON?

You guys keep on it. You have worn me out.

[KULTULZ]

It's "sleepy eyed Joe"

Speaking of eyes, do you wear those POLICE INTERCEPTOR sun glasses while driving to help you ignore the ABS lamp being continuously illuminated in your face?

[craig]

KULTULZ
No actual policy, just common sense. I never sent any cars out with any warning lights on, but I had many cars come in with a light on. In most cases, it had been on for several days. Usually they hadn't noticed it. The light that caught most of the attention was the TPMS, because none of them wanted to change a tire in the middle of nowhere

[fordor41]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

Speaking of eyes, do you wear those POLICE INTERCEPTOR sun glasses while driving to help you ignore the ABS lamp being continuously illuminated in your face?

No, I ignore the ABS and traction control lights!

[fordor41]

To put KULTULZ's mind at rest, I took my Jeep in for some work and they noticed the ABS/TC light on and installed a new sensor. It brakes sooooooo much better now, not!

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by fordor41

To put KULTULZ's mind at rest, I took my Jeep in for some work and they noticed the ABS/TC light on and installed a new sensor. It brakes sooooooo much better now, not!

Why don't you give it up?