The Ford Barn

hardtimes · 07-10-2021, 01:49 PM

Anyone use this seal successfully ?

Patrick L. · 07-10-2021, 01:55 PM

I use the rope seal successfully.

hardtimes · 07-10-2021, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick L.

I use the rope seal successfully.

Hey Patrick,
Tthanks, but I ask and need to know about whether others here can give me important feedback regarding use / efficacy of the modern front seal that is designed for possible better sealing at front of crank.

Werner · 07-10-2021, 03:24 PM

The modern shaft seal ("Simmering") can only be fitted if the entire front housing and the oil pan has been removed.

I also used the ropes mentioned by Patrick. When installed correctly, they provide a very good seal. There is only a slight oil mist on my car, always less than 1 drop. (The oiling out is much worse at the back of the crankshaft!)

chrs1961815 · 07-10-2021, 03:28 PM

I have not used one myself even though I bought one to use on my engine rebuild but ended up keeping the rope. But I have heard (for what it is worth) that guys have had leaks with rope seals and modern seals with and without sealant. I think it all depends on installation and care not to damage the neoprene for sure. Some timing covers and oil pans have more sharp areas than others IMO.

john in illinois · 07-10-2021, 04:42 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

I have used one for 28,000 miles in my Tudor. No leak yet. Put it in with black rtv.

John

Werner · 07-10-2021, 04:53 PM

John,

please tell me what is "black RTV"?

alexiskai · 07-10-2021, 05:16 PM

Permatex Ultra Black

Y-Blockhead · 07-10-2021, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Werner

John,

please tell me what is "black RTV"?

RTV = Room Temperature Vulcanizing Silicon

Patrick L. · 07-11-2021, 03:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hardtimes

Hey Patrick,
Tthanks, but I ask and need to know about whether others here can give me important feedback regarding use / efficacy of the modern front seal that is designed for possible better sealing at front of crank.

I know, I answered because over the years I've read mixed results about this seal.

Werner · 07-11-2021, 06:17 AM

Quote:

what is "black RTV"?

Thanks for infos!

midgetracer · 07-11-2021, 08:28 AM

I have used in at least 10 engines with great success. Now I have one that leaks, I am pulling the oil pan and replacing the seal later this month. I think the pan is the culprit in this leak. That seal that failed immediately and I am not looking forward to all the work to change it, as it requires lifting the engine after pulling the radiator etc. to remove the pulley. I am replacing it with another modern seal.

duke36 · 07-11-2021, 11:24 AM

May want to look into the Stipes Specialty Motor Cams modern seal if using one. The original asbestos soaked ropes were reliable but no longer available. A smooth unpainted pulley shaft is essential.

CWPASADENA · 07-11-2021, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duke36

A smooth unpainted pulley shaft is essential.

It is imperative that the surface of the pulley that the seal rides on is absolutely smooth.
This is especially true when using a new pulley. The fine machining marks on the pulley will ware out the lip of the seal and cause it to fail prematurely.

I polish this surface when I assemble an engine.

Chris W.

daveymc29 · 07-11-2021, 10:54 PM

I helped a friend put one in. He was told to not us rtv when installing it and it imediately leaked. We removed the seal and filled top and bottom with channel with rtv, pushed seal into place and it quit leaking. We used paper pan gaskets with a smear of rtv on the pan side only and torqued the bolts evenly, just tight. So far so good.

Y-Blockhead · 07-12-2021, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duke36

May want to look into the Stipes Specialty Motor Cams modern seal if using one. The original asbestos soaked ropes were reliable but no longer available. A smooth unpainted pulley shaft is essential.

I bought a Stipes front seal to hopefully cure a front seal leak on my engine. Very nice piece but I have never used it. My seal leak was cured when I installed a balancer with a reverse scroll machined into it. Not a drop since.

http://www.specialtymotorcams.com/de...ront-seals-011

nomadpsd · 07-12-2021, 09:39 AM

Hi Rick,

Look into the Stipe modern front seal. It uses an aluminum housing to hold the shape.

SteveB31 · 07-12-2021, 09:25 PM

I’ve used over 300 of them on our engines. Had a couple leak, all the rest have not. Must use a new or very smooth pulley and be sure it Is centered and held in place with Ultra black.

duke36 · 07-12-2021, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveB31

I’ve used over 300 of them on our engines. Had a couple leak, all the rest have not. Must use a new or very smooth pulley and be sure it Is centered and held in place with Ultra black.

Any preference or results for a 1 piece vs. a 2 piece pulley ? Are the threaded type 2 piece pulleys acceptable as well?

chrs1961815 · 07-13-2021, 03:53 AM

I would only go with 1 piece pulleys - it seems the 2 piece pulleys coming apart is a real problem.

07-10-2021, 01:49 PM	#1
hardtimes Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South California Posts: 6,188	FRONT model A ‘modern’ seal use. Anyone use this seal successfully ?

07-10-2021, 01:55 PM	#2
Patrick L. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Largo Florida Posts: 7,225	Re: FRONT model A ‘modern’ seal use. I use the rope seal successfully.

07-10-2021, 03:24 PM	#4
Werner Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: Germany, near Aachen Posts: 1,153	Re: FRONT model A ‘modern’ seal use. The modern shaft seal ("Simmering") can only be fitted if the entire front housing and the oil pan has been removed. I also used the ropes mentioned by Patrick. When installed correctly, they provide a very good seal. There is only a slight oil mist on my car, always less than 1 drop. (The oiling out is much worse at the back of the crankshaft!) __________________ Beste Gruesse aus Deutschland, Werner Ford Model A, Roadster, 1928 Citroen 11 CV, 1947 Hercules W 2000, 1976; (with NSU-Wankel Rotary Engine), Canadian version

07-10-2021, 03:28 PM	#5
chrs1961815 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2018 Location: Spring Grove, Illinois Posts: 1,371	Re: FRONT model A ‘modern’ seal use. I have not used one myself even though I bought one to use on my engine rebuild but ended up keeping the rope. But I have heard (for what it is worth) that guys have had leaks with rope seals and modern seals with and without sealant. I think it all depends on installation and care not to damage the neoprene for sure. Some timing covers and oil pans have more sharp areas than others IMO. __________________ "The more things change, the more they stay the same."

07-10-2021, 04:42 PM	#6
john in illinois Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Illinois Posts: 2,183	Re: FRONT model A ‘modern’ seal use. Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) I have used one for 28,000 miles in my Tudor. No leak yet. Put it in with black rtv. John __________________ Welcome each day

07-10-2021, 04:53 PM	#7
Werner Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: Germany, near Aachen Posts: 1,153	Re: FRONT model A ‘modern’ seal use. John, please tell me what is "black RTV"? __________________ Beste Gruesse aus Deutschland, Werner Ford Model A, Roadster, 1928 Citroen 11 CV, 1947 Hercules W 2000, 1976; (with NSU-Wankel Rotary Engine), Canadian version

07-10-2021, 05:16 PM	#8
alexiskai Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Mebane NC Posts: 2,350	Re: FRONT model A ‘modern’ seal use. Permatex Ultra Black

07-11-2021, 08:28 AM	#12
midgetracer Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bismarck ND Posts: 1,189	Re: FRONT model A ‘modern’ seal use. I have used in at least 10 engines with great success. Now I have one that leaks, I am pulling the oil pan and replacing the seal later this month. I think the pan is the culprit in this leak. That seal that failed immediately and I am not looking forward to all the work to change it, as it requires lifting the engine after pulling the radiator etc. to remove the pulley. I am replacing it with another modern seal.

07-11-2021, 11:24 AM	#13
duke36 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 1,414	Re: FRONT model A ‘modern’ seal use. May want to look into the Stipes Specialty Motor Cams modern seal if using one. The original asbestos soaked ropes were reliable but no longer available. A smooth unpainted pulley shaft is essential.

07-11-2021, 10:54 PM	#15
daveymc29 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Danville, CA Posts: 1,553	Re: FRONT model A ‘modern’ seal use. I helped a friend put one in. He was told to not us rtv when installing it and it imediately leaked. We removed the seal and filled top and bottom with channel with rtv, pushed seal into place and it quit leaking. We used paper pan gaskets with a smear of rtv on the pan side only and torqued the bolts evenly, just tight. So far so good.

07-12-2021, 09:39 AM	#17
nomadpsd Member Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 49	Re: FRONT model A ‘modern’ seal use. Hi Rick, Look into the Stipe modern front seal. It uses an aluminum housing to hold the shape.

07-12-2021, 09:25 PM	#18
SteveB31 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Englewood, Colorado Posts: 1,372	Re: FRONT model A ‘modern’ seal use. I’ve used over 300 of them on our engines. Had a couple leak, all the rest have not. Must use a new or very smooth pulley and be sure it Is centered and held in place with Ultra black.

07-13-2021, 03:53 AM	#20
chrs1961815 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2018 Location: Spring Grove, Illinois Posts: 1,371	Re: FRONT model A ‘modern’ seal use. I would only go with 1 piece pulleys - it seems the 2 piece pulleys coming apart is a real problem. __________________ "The more things change, the more they stay the same."