Higher-ethanol fuel a problem for classic cars

[Steve Staysko]

New recommendation for 2018 in Canada will increase the maximum amount of ethanol in gasoline to 15 per cent, up from the current 10 per cent "isn't that just wonderful".

http://driving.ca/ford/auto-news/new...-cars-dont-mix

The article did site a very useful website that tracks gas stations in Canada and the United States offering ethanol-free blends and I've added this site to my phone.

https://www.pure-gas.org/

[RalphG]

Well that just ruined my day. I was wondering how long we would be safe from this stuff and I guess the days are numbered. I think the whole ethanol fuel thing is a bit of a farce. What do they think we are burning in the machinery that produces the raw material (corn etc.)? Seems like a negative return to me.

[supereal]

You can use ethanol safely if the concentration doesn't exceed 10%, providing all non metal parts of the fuel system (rubber,etc) have been replaced with appropriate materials. At our shop we went to "fuel proof" hoses and other parts long ago. Even fuel marked at the pump to be ethanol free does contain it now in shipment and multigrade pumps. The real losers in the battle are the small engines on mowers and other applications. There has been a push to increase ethanol content to 15% and above which will likely be the point where damage will occur. It is spurred by a surplus of corn at low prices

[G.M.]

Even 10% is not good for the old Fords. It will eat the thin brass
float in the tank, attract moisture. Attact metal fuel lines and rubber
hoses. Increase vapor lock and cause problems in the carb. I believe
Non ethanol fuel is available in all states. Google "non ethanol gas"
plus the name of the state and a list of stations will appear. G.M.

[qmdv]

Almost no clear gas in Kalifornia. Found it in Redding for $6.98 per gallon.

Tim

[corvette8n]

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I just siphoned the fuel from my tank and put in non-ethanol, the station around the corner carries it although it is at the price of premium.

[1937pickup]

Minnesota has that crap-they were sneaky about it. It is offered as a "mid grade" premium at five cents per gallon cheaper than 10 % ethanol. There is just a little sign under the selection button saying that it is 15% ethanol.

[Tim Brown]

Im thinking of selling my old car and getting a sailboat. Do you think they will find a way to charge us for Air?

[Crankster]

They charge for rain in many cities, so I wouldn't be surprised.

[prpmmp]

https://www.goldeagle.com/product/sta-bil-360-marine/ I have been using it for years, never a problem! 3 old cars, snow blower,generator,push mower, commercial mower (Wright Stander), powerwasher. Pete

[tubman]

Originally Posted by Tim Brown

Im thinking of selling my old car and getting a sailboat. Do you think they will find a way to charge us for Air?

No, but they will get with with dockage and associated fees (pump outs, etc.). I have a winter place in Marathon (Florida Keys) and when I first went there, I knew a bunch of folks living cheaply on boats. Over the years, rising fees and general expenses have forced most of them out. I haven't been back this year, but I expect hurricane Irma got rid of the rest.

[Juergen]

It is well known that ethanol is bad for pot metal carburetors. I see while going to "Back to the 50's" that Minnesota has stations with regular gas for "snow mobiles, outboards and old vehicles". At least they saw the light that ethanol may not be bad for stainless steel fuel injectors but is bad for carbs. In other states you may have to go to marinas.

[Vintage Copper 47]

Originally Posted by G.M.

Even 10% is not good for the old Fords. It will eat the thin brass
float in the tank, attract moisture. Attact metal fuel lines and rubber
hoses. Increase vapor lock and cause problems in the carb. I believe
Non ethanol fuel is available in all states. Google "non ethanol gas"
plus the name of the state and a list of stations will appear. G.M.

No ethanol free gas I can find in the "land of fruits & nuts" in California...

[JSeery]

You can get E free at a lot of stations in Kansas. That's all I use in mowers, ect.

[tubman]

Originally Posted by Juergen

It is well known that ethanol is bad for pot metal carburetors. I see while going to "Back to the 50's" that Minnesota has stations with regular gas for "snow mobiles, outboards and old vehicles". At least they saw the light that ethanol may not be bad for stainless steel fuel injectors but is bad for carbs. In other states you may have to go to marinas.

This was a result of the MSRA (Minnesota Street Rod Association) and a bunch of others (Marinas, etc.) working within the system with the legislature to make things work. Kudos to them. Where I live (in North Central Minnesota) just about every station has alcohol-free gas.

[Henry Hopper]

I imported a stock 32 roadster from the U.S. a few years ago.When I started it up it smoked like crazy...white acrid smoke.....then As I took refuge from the choking fumes I noticed what I thought was a water leak throwing water all over the front of the car.As I went in to investigate I saw that it was fuel from a ruptured fuel line..it was soft and perished ,as I later found out, through stale Ethonel fuel...that stuff sprayed over my hands and burnt like acid.I ended up replacing the fuel pump and all rubber parts in the fuel system and fitted a new Stromberg 97,drained the tank and put in some proper petrol.That stuff nearly cost me a fire ravaged deuce and a burnt out garage.

[bluardun]

The ethanol/gas has become a problem; Only to get worse. We don't drive our special cars enough to keep "fresh" gas running thru it. I buy and mix aviation gas with lead and mix it with the ethanol/gas. This lowers the percentage of ethanol. The valve train loves the lead. It cost a bit, but I don't drive the car daily. Our hobby has changed, and we have to adapt to it. Gasoline has become blended fuel. Similar story about paint products.
Interesting; airplanes don't use the same gas as we are forced to use.

[tubman]

"bluardun" - Did you read my post? The enthusiasts, at least in Minnesota were able to make good things happen. The MSRA has an active political arm, and they use it.

[50fordcoupeman]

In Washington and Oregon ethanol free gas can be found if you know where to look. I was told years ago to run non-ethanol gas in everything that had a carburetor.

[JT FORD]

Iowa has a lot of stations that carry non E-gas. Most Casey stations has it. It runs .30 cents higher than 10% ethanol gas.

[russcc]

Anyone know if there is a difference between Stabil 360 Peformance and Stabil 360 Marine ? Ii so, what ? Right now Advance Auto has Stabil 360 Performance on sale, $8.99 for the 10oz, buy one, get one free. So for $8.99 you get 20 oz.

[5851a]

Originally Posted by JT FORD

Iowa has a lot of stations that carry non E-gas. Most Casey stations has it. It runs .30 cents higher than 10% ethanol gas.

Yes and I'm glad to be able to get it for small engines and when I put something in storage.

[5851a]

Originally Posted by russcc

Anyone know if there is a difference between Stabil 360 Peformance and Stabil 360 Marine ? Ii so, what ? Right now Advance Auto has Stabil 360 Performance on sale, $8.99 for the 10oz, buy one, get one free. So for $8.99 you get 20 oz.

I hope it's ok since that's all I could find the day I put the pickup away for the winter. The concentration seemed to be higher and used less than the regular red stuff.

[40cpe]

Originally Posted by russcc

Anyone know if there is a difference between Stabil 360 Peformance and Stabil 360 Marine ? Ii so, what ?

I found this while looking for a difference:

"The new STA-BIL 360° line is designed to support consumers seeking ultimate performance in the automotive, boating, powersports and small engine categories. STA-BIL scientists developed these innovative products to help restore power, maximize fuel economy, prevent ethanol damage, clean the fuel system, and provide a smooth idle. STA-BIL 360° Marine offers all of these benefits and also provides better water removal for marine engines."

From this quote, I would say that it is supposed to remove water "better". And isn't water the culprit in ethanol?

[G.M.]

I would GUESS they are the same product. The automotive bottle
Is small but I would think more is sold. The marine product is
sold in larger containers but less are sold. Someone can figure how
much an once each one costs. G.M.

[russcc]

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I have a call into Stabil to find out the actual difference between the 2. Will post.
At $9.55 for 10oz., get 1 free for total of 20oz. the cost per oz is less than a 1/2 a buck per oz. or .48 cents.

[wisbangman]

If you punch " pure gas " into your computer, a web site will come up indicating what gas stations by city, and state, have ethanol free gas. In Wisconsin and probably most states , premium does not have ethanol in it, but I am talking " regular. " We are lucky, in Oshkosh, we have two stations that sell non ethanol regular gas and it is only 3 cents more per gal. than ethanol. Check out " pure gas "

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by wisbangman

In Wisconsin and probably most states , premium does not have ethanol in it

Never heard this before. Per the internet:

Two states in the Union, Missouri and Montana, have specific exemption to allow ethanol-free premium gasoline. So if you live in one of those two states, you can be thankful.
For the rest of us, we are faced with the unpleasant reality that the refineries are all but tied into putting ethanol in premium gas. This is because they have to use the ethanol to raise the octane level of their gasoline blend in order to satisfy the higher octane requirements of premium.

I'll do some more looking, but it sure has ethanol in it in Kansas. From a price point of view it doesn't much matter, they are priced the same.

[Lenny51]

I have been using ethanol in my 51 for 2 years I also add Marine sta bil &
Marvel mystry oil so far no problems,all my small engines & mowers I use
non ethanol