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Old 08-26-2020, 12:04 PM   #1
PeteVS
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Default Assembling Lockheed brakes

For the past many years, I've been buying, gathering, designing and making, cleaning, and painting parts for my AV8 project. (This is my avatar photo car.) This is the year to get it all together. I'm using a Model A rear end right now because I'm not looking forward to shortening the torque tube and driveshaft of the '40 rear I have sitting in my trailer. (I had 1/16" taken off the axle housing flanges and made 1/16" spacers for between the hubs and the brake drums.) During this time, I bought new shoes and MT drums from a well respected vendor of brake equipment. He told me that he had the shoes arced to fit the drums. So, I had the rear all ready to go. I assembled the shoes and wheel cylinders to the backing plates on the work bench and bolted the loaded backing plates to the drums. I put the hubs on the axles and went to install the drums. One side, I couldn't even get the drum started to slide over the shoes. The other side took a bit of persuasion to get the drum on but the wheel won't turn. Before I tried, I turned the adjusters to move the shoes out all the way and when I went a bit further, the shoes settled way back so I'm assuming that this is the "loosest" I can get them. What am I missing here! Thanks!
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Old 08-26-2020, 12:32 PM   #2
Tim Ayers
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Default Re: Assembling Lockheed brakes

I just went through this with MT drums and all original, relined brake shoes and OEM brakes.

Call MT back and asked if they corrected the issue with the brake shoes. I recall reading that the "tab" that seats on the wheel cylinder needs to be shortened for its too long and pushes the shoe outward too far. Adjustment won't help.

Once on, I used old fashioned chalk and scribbled on the pads. I then turned the drums and sanded down the linings where the chalked marks showed they were rubbing on the drum.

It took about three hours total, but I got it so they both work properly.

Do a little at a time for it doesn't take much to bind them, but you also don't want to take too much away.

Also, wear a mask when sanding any drum material. You never know if it still has asbestos.
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Old 08-26-2020, 12:38 PM   #3
19Fordy
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Default Re: Assembling Lockheed brakes

The title of your post confuses me.

MT brake shoes are for Bendix brakes. Are you using Bendix brake system or Lockheed or some type of mix and match?
Did you also buy MT backing plates?


I recall reading years ago that OEM 40 Ford Lockheed brakes shoe linings were .18 in. thick.

Last edited by 19Fordy; 08-26-2020 at 12:47 PM.
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Old 08-26-2020, 12:42 PM   #4
Tim Ayers
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Default Re: Assembling Lockheed brakes

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Originally Posted by 19Fordy View Post
Are the shoes MT sells made to fit Lockheed brakes or do they only fit Bendix style brakes?
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Old 08-26-2020, 12:49 PM   #5
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Default Re: Assembling Lockheed brakes

Hi Pete,

I just had the same experience too. Left side rear went on fine but not the right rear. I measured the thickness of shoes, metal and composite, in many places along the arc, and found that they varied quite a bit. I ended up taking about 1/32" of both shoes on this right side in order to get enough clearance. My drums were NOS Ford bought years ago.

I used a hand held sander (use a dust mask!) and measured with calipers frequently and close on the arc. It took me 3 times to get it right which was a pain putting shoes on and off.

Glenn
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Old 08-26-2020, 12:50 PM   #6
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Default Re: Assembling Lockheed brakes

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Ayers View Post
Call MT back and asked if they corrected the issue with the brake shoes. I recall reading that the "tab" that seats on the wheel cylinder needs to be shortened for its too long and pushes the shoe outward too far. Adjustment won't help.
I think I have some old used shoes in my trailer. I'll dig them out and see if there's any difference with the shoes I'm working with. I'm a bit upset (nice term) because now I have to work on the brakes "on the car" and not on the bench where everything seems a bit easier.
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Old 08-26-2020, 12:54 PM   #7
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Default Re: Assembling Lockheed brakes

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteVS View Post
I think I have some old used shoes in my trailer. I'll dig them out and see if there's any difference with the shoes I'm working with. I'm a bit upset (nice term) because now I have to work on the brakes "on the car" and not on the bench where everything seems a bit easier.
Yep. I know it. It was a back breaking job. Good news is the MT drums come off without the need of a puller!
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Old 08-26-2020, 01:16 PM   #8
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Default Re: Assembling Lockheed brakes

Don't think we answered the question on which style brakes are you working on, Lockheed or Bendix? It sorta sounds like a combo here. Sounds like from the first post you were referring to adjusting the cam to move the shoes in and out, but then we went to talking about Bendix brakes.
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Old 08-26-2020, 01:52 PM   #9
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Default Re: Assembling Lockheed brakes

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteVS View Post
During this time, I bought new shoes and MT drums from a well respected vendor of brake equipment.


Before I tried, I turned the adjusters to move the shoes out all the way and when I went a bit further, the shoes settled way back so I'm assuming that this is the "loosest" I can get them.

PeteVS …...I KNOW that you have a handle on this old Ford stuff because of your history here. But I'm still confused about the Lockheed/Bendix thing because of your thread TITLE....."Lockheed brakes"! Then you mention "vendor of brake equipment", which doesn't make it clear WHICH type of SHOES you bought.


You also said that you adjusted "shoes OUT all the way". For drum assembly clearance, surely you realize that you must begin by adjusting shoes ALL the way IN. So, are we in fact dealing with Bendix backing plates....OR Lockheeds? Your mention of USED SHOES makes me think Lockheed parts. DD
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Old 08-26-2020, 02:07 PM   #10
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Default Re: Assembling Lockheed brakes

I installed the MT brakes on my '46 Coupe, and found what seems to be the same issue of lining thickness variation. It is almost like their shoes are arced for used drums that have been machined, thus having a larger diameter than the stock 12.00". Measuring the linings, they were typically .010" to .018" thicker in the middle, than towards the ends of the lining. I had no problem getting the drums on, but I have gone through two sanding bouts on the linings to get a better contact on the drums. Still more to go. No shops around here to do arcing.
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Old 08-26-2020, 04:07 PM   #11
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Default Re: Assembling Lockheed brakes

I seriously doubt that MT brakes would interchange with original 1940 brake shoes.

Just doesn't seem logical. Especially since MT brake shoe numbers don't match up or show as being interchangeable with 1940's brakes.

I have the part #'s for MT brakes (somewhere) and they are used on much more recent Bendix brake vehicles.
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Old 08-26-2020, 04:43 PM   #12
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Default Re: Assembling Lockheed brakes

Hi,


The MT or Boiling Bros. brake kits have one with new backing plates set up for Bendix brakes. You can then either have 1-3/4" wide shoes and use the original Ford brake drums. This is what I just did on my 32 with 40 rear-axle.


Or you can also go with 2" wide shoes and buy brake drums from them.



The shoes are too thick as provided in the kits.
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Old 08-26-2020, 04:55 PM   #13
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Default Re: Assembling Lockheed brakes

I made a tool to check the shoes. It was a strap that bolted to the hub and had an adjustable arm that stuck out over the shoes. You could rotate it around the shoes and check if they are square and also find the high spots. It solved my problems.
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Old 08-26-2020, 05:04 PM   #14
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Default Re: Assembling Lockheed brakes

Very good designing and building that big compass.
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Old 08-26-2020, 05:55 PM   #15
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Default Re: Assembling Lockheed brakes

Here's the HAMB thread that tells what brake shoes are used by MT Products
for their Lincoln brake and backing plate kit.. Includes Part Nunbers.
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/.../#post-8923244

2 in. wide shoes are Raybestos brake shoes # 340 PG. and have thicker linings.

I bought the complete MT font and rear backing plate, drum kit including the 2 in. wide rear shoes. MT drums slid on with no problems.
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File Type: jpg IMG_5549 (Small).jpg (38.2 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_5418 (Small).jpg (37.5 KB, 158 views)

Last edited by 19Fordy; 08-26-2020 at 06:03 PM.
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Old 08-26-2020, 06:41 PM   #16
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Default Re: Assembling Lockheed brakes

.

And Jim's (19Fordy) charming bride allows him to play with, OR store ANY of his toys that he desires right there on her beautiful tiled kitchen floor. She's a 'keeper'! DD

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Old 08-26-2020, 06:56 PM   #17
Tim Ayers
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Default Re: Assembling Lockheed brakes

Quote:
Originally Posted by glennpm View Post
Hi,


The MT or Boiling Bros. brake kits have one with new backing plates set up for Bendix brakes. You can then either have 1-3/4" wide shoes and use the original Ford brake drums. This is what I just did on my 32 with 40 rear-axle.


Or you can also go with 2" wide shoes and buy brake drums from them.



The shoes are too thick as provided in the kits.
This...

I'm reading it that Pete is using original Lockheed brakes with MT drums and shoes.
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Old 08-26-2020, 08:31 PM   #18
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Default Re: Assembling Lockheed brakes

Yes, I'm using LOCKHEED brakes. They're "late" style without the bottom adjusters. I'm sorry about any confusion there. I got a pair of new MT drums and I sent a set of old Lockheed shoes out as cores and I got a set of shoes with new lining. I don't know if the shoes I got were relined old shoes or totally new shoes. I remember reading to stay away from the "new" shoes that don't require providing cores to reline. Most of my brake experience is with cars with Bendix brakes. The Lockheed system of adjusting seems a bit barbaric to me. I can't really see what's going on with the adjusters. I figured that the best way to get them "loosest" would be to go all the way tight (drums off) and then go a bit further and the shoes would drop back to full loose. I have a lot to learn. Thanks all!
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Last edited by PeteVS; 08-26-2020 at 08:40 PM.
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Old 08-26-2020, 08:39 PM   #19
PeteVS
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Default Re: Assembling Lockheed brakes

Another question: On Bendix brakes, I've been taught to put a teeny bit of Neversieze on the pads of the backing plate where the shoes sit. Are there any places on Lockheed brakes where something like this should be done?
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Old 08-26-2020, 09:35 PM   #20
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Default Re: Assembling Lockheed brakes

PeteVS: I recall reading some time ago that some of the 40 repro. brake shoes have the big holes for the bottom adjuster incorrectly located. Hope your brakes are original shoes. Here's how you adjust the 40 brakes. BUY the book shown. It's a gold mine.
Attached Images
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Last edited by 19Fordy; 08-26-2020 at 09:48 PM.
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