Body to Frame Mounts

[56sedandelivery]

The pest is back.


So getting ready to hang fenders as in previous thread. Figured I would try and replace the body to frame mount that is in the engine bay area. Got the top nut off no problem and now am stuck. It looks like the mounting bolt is just a bolt threaded the whole way with no nut attached. The top bolt came off easy but the bottom will not budge. I do not know if the bottom nut or whatever it is, is welded to the frame or not. I tried the jam nut on the top and bolt nuts just unscrewed. I put WD40 on it and will let it set overnight and see what happens. Any idea other then that to get it out? Thanks

[frank long island]

more then likely rust is holding also body bushing may have a metal sleeve in it you can also try some heat

[scicala]

My '55 Ranch Wagon was original when I took the body off the frame, and all of the body mounts used a standard bolt and nut with flat washers and a lock washer on the nut end. No metal sleeve in the mount pads.

Sal

[KULTULZ]

That is a STUD in #10 POSITION.

[56sedandelivery]

Okay, are these studs removable? The kit comes with studs so am assuming they can be removed.

[Daves55Sedan]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

I've removed two '55 Ford car body's off frame (one, a sedan and the other a Courier sedan delivery). The front body mounts are the same for both. They have a threaded stud sticking up from the frame which allows for preliminary body to frame alignment. Once the body is fully aligned on the frame, the front mounts are fastened down with large thick washers and castle nuts. I never tried to remove the stud from the nut fastened below the frame.
On both my cars, after I had the nuts tightened, I took a blob of "duxseal" and tore off a piece and shaped it over the nut so that water, road-salt and grime can't get into the threads on that stud. It lasts for years. Once the duxseal dries out real bad, you can just pull it off and stick on a new blob.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by 56sedandelivery

Okay, are these studs removable? The kit comes with studs so am assuming they can be removed.

Yes. You are going to use two nuts tightened against one another, a stud removal socket or a hot wrench. I don't know if the vendor sells parts of the kit or you have to buy the complete kit.

If you don't want to buy the kit, the studs should be available at FASTENAL.

The stud has to come out? There is no hardware below it.

[GLAmes]

Originally Posted by 56sedandelivery

I put WD40 on it and will let it set overnight and see what happens. Any idea other then that to get it out?

A much better penatrant is a 50/50 mix of acetone and atf. Acetone can be found at an auto paint supply store.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by 56sedandelivery

The pest is back.

Not a pest. I am learning here and this info is very limited in SERVICE INFORMATION and will help countless others ...

[56sedandelivery]

Thanks. Never heard of Acetone and ATF will give that a try. I do not want to take the body off just raise it enough to get new mounting pad in there. Already tried the two nuts and that was a no go. I plan on doing one side at a time.

[KULTULZ]

I got to thinking (which is scary enough on it's own) and most likely that stud is tapered and the retainer is tapered. When torque is applied and after all of these years, it should be frozen.

[56sedandelivery]

Here is pic of replacement stud. Does not appear to be tapered, not saying that the original one wasn't.

[frank long island]

if that pic is your frame it should be easy with no body on it if not you are going to have to loosen or remove the mounts down the line to get the body high enough maybe even other side heat the bottom where stud goes through should move i dont think soaking it will loosen it enough but i have been wrong before and will be again

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by 56sedandelivery

Here is pic of replacement stud. Does not appear to be tapered, not saying that the original one wasn't.

... hhmpf ...

It uses a shoulder to stop the turning to get to torque value.

How is the soaking going?

[KULTULZ]

... if that pic is your frame ...

Sorry about that. It is a photo I found online. His body is not off.

[Jwawhite]

There was something not quite right when I replaced my body mount washers and rubbers.
If I torqued the Bolt and Nut close to spec, the rubber washer would bulge outside the steel washer. I also found the driver area eyelits on driver's side expanded from too many people messing/over torquing that area and pulling through the entire Assy. I installed Grade 8 washers and did not toque to spec but just below the listed number to prevent excessive wear/ ripping of rubber washer.
So far the doors and body seem stationary on the frame.
Thinking about selling Frank, car needs a person who knows what they are doing.

[56sedandelivery]

So after sitting 2 days drenched in WD40 still does not move. Using the ATF/Acetone treatment now. Went to pass side and it came out with no problem. Guess that is the norm since the one in the pic Kultulz posted is the same way. The stud looks the same as the new one I posted earlier. The challenge continues.

[frank long island]

to jwawhite been there done that working on a 'rustang' now thank though

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by 56sedandelivery

So after sitting 2 days drenched in WD40 still does not move. Using the ATF/Acetone treatment now.

WD40 is not a penetrate, but a lubricant. WD40 does offer a penetrate.

Let the ATF/ACETONE work on it.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Jwawhite

There was something not quite right when I replaced my body mount washers and rubbers.

If I torqued the Bolt and Nut close to spec, the rubber washer would bulge outside the steel washer. I also found the driver area eyelits on driver's side expanded from too many people messing/over torquing that area and pulling through the entire Assy. I installed Grade 8 washers and did not toque to spec but just below the listed number to prevent excessive wear/ ripping of rubber washer.

So far the doors and body seem stationary on the frame.

It may be the quality/vendor of the kit.

Thinking about selling Frank, car needs a person who knows what they are doing.

Sorry to hear that.

When are you going to change your location?

[Jwawhite]

How about concentrated heat on the stud? Isn't it a bit over 200 degrees that enough expansion occurs?

[frank long island]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

It may be the quality/vendor of the kit.



Sorry to hear that.

When are you going to change your location?

i have 5 yrs till retirement then going south

[56sedandelivery]

Got it out. The acetone/ATF worked. Never heard of that so learn something new all the time. Started doing the next ones down the line and they just spin as the nuts are also rusted tight. So more to work on.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by 56sedandelivery

Got it out. The acetone/ATF worked. Never heard of that so learn something new all the time.

I've heard of it but never tried it. If it ate that one out it is the go-to.

[56sedandelivery]

The weirdness continues. It appears that the stud bolt that goes under the seat are was never there, at least not since I have had it. #7 on the chart. Also the passenger side bolts come out easy while the drivers side are rusted solid, weird.

[KULTULZ]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Originally Posted by 56sedandelivery

The weirdness continues. It appears that the stud bolt that goes under the seat are was never there, at least not since I have had it. #7 on the chart. Also the passenger side bolts come out easy while the drivers side are rusted solid, weird.

There are a few differences on a SD/SW than a regular car. Most kits are designed for the sedan.

[56sedandelivery]

Update. Got all the drivers side mount bolts out and loosened all the pass side. What is the best way to raise the body up a inch or so to put new body pads in? Jack with a 2x4 somewhere, something else? I so not have the means to pull the body off the frame.

[frank long island]

you can do 1 side at a time use a 4x4 or something of substance along rocker fender and 1/4 panel that should give enough room get the height you want and support with jackstands front and rear of 4x4 just watch the jack doesnt kick out on you

[56sedandelivery]

Originally Posted by frank long island

you can do 1 side at a time use a 4x4 or something of substance along rocker fender and 1/4 panel that should give enough room get the height you want and support with jackstands front and rear of 4x4 just watch the jack doesnt kick out on you

Do you mean the rocker or the pinch weld?


Edit
So cut a notch to fit over the pinch weld and tried lifting it up. Ended up jacking the whole car up. So how do you separate the body from the frame? 65 years has literally stuck them together. I dont want to go beating on it if there is a better to do it.

[Daves55Sedan]

Originally Posted by 56sedandelivery

I so not have the means to pull the body off the frame.

I never had anything to pull a body off a frame. So I MADE something.
I got two floorjacks at the front (with doghouse removed and all bolts out and jacked up the front of car enough off the frame to slide and 8 foot long 2x6 between bottom of car and frame. Then I reinforced the roof trusses above and placed a 4x4 vertical post to keep the roof from sagging as I intended to use lumber between two roof trusses to hand a cheap $14.00 Western Auto cable hoist. I drilled holes in the ends of the 2x6 and took a long chain and fastened it to the ends of the 2x6 and hoisted the front up far enough so that the tires would clear the rocker panels. Once the car was in mid air where I wanted it, I stacked up concrete blocks under the 2x6 and lowered the hoist back down a little so the 2x6 would rest on the concrete blocks.
Then I moved the whole lifting apparatus down to the back of the car and repeated with a longer board so that the tires would clear the concrete blocks.
Then I rolled the frame out from under the car. I used wood wedges to perfectly level the floor of the car so it would be suitable for cutting out the rusted floor panels and welding in new ones with the frame gone for sandblasting.
There's always a way to lift a car body off frame, even if you are the only one doing it without any help. Or, you could get a half dozen guys to lift it off and carry it away and set the body on oversized long sawhorses (on a fairly level surface).

[Daves55Sedan]

Originally Posted by 56sedandelivery

So how do you separate the body from the frame? 65 years has literally stuck them together. I dont want to go beating on it if there is a better to do it.

First make certain all bolts are out. The car frame is heavy and will usually pull right off, but if it sticks, get a carpenters wrecking bar and stick it in between the body structure and the rubber mounting pad. Give a little pry and go to the next point that sticks. The two points at the very front where the studs were might be binding if the studs are not out, so its a good idea to have them removed first.
Don't forget the wagon models have two bolts at the very back that DO NOT go thru the floor. Those go thru the bottom of the frame. Be careful to remove these before attempting to lift body off frame without incurring damage to the rear "L" brackets and substructure or bending the bolts.

[GLAmes]

Originally Posted by 56sedandelivery

So cut a notch to fit over the pinch weld and tried lifting it up. Ended up jacking the whole car up. So how do you separate the body from the frame? 65 years has literally stuck them together. I dont want to go beating on it if there is a better to do it.

I suspect you don't have all the bolts removed. My '54 shop manual has a diagram that shows all the mountinng points. When I took the body off the frame it pulled off easily, and it was a rusty mess down there.

[56sedandelivery]

Update
All the bolts were out and the other side loosened up. It was just stuck. Ended up taking a sawsall to the #10 pads in the front. Once I cut them the whole body lifted up.



Now most have sequence bolt/star washer/round pad/square pad. Question is does the round pad go on the inside of the car and the square on on the outside or some other way around? Also does the star washer install curved side up next to bolt head or down away from the bolt head?

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by 56sedandelivery

Now most have sequence bolt/star washer/round pad/square pad. Question is does the round pad go on the inside of the car and the square on on the outside or some other way around? Also does the star washer install curved side up next to bolt head or down away from the bolt head?

Where did you buy your kit? It should have instructions. If not I will post diagrams.

Jwawhite is a member here. He replaced his mounts on his 1956 SW so he might be able to help you with that one position that is different from a sedan.

There is also a separate BODY ASSEMBLY WSM and I believe he bought a copy. I don't know if the info is in it or not. Maybe ask him.

How did the core support mount turn out?

Please post any info here on this thread.

[56sedandelivery]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

Where did you buy your kit? It should have instructions. If not I will post diagrams.

Jwawhite is a member here. He replaced his mounts on his 1956 SW so he might be able to help you with that one position that is different from a sedan.

There is also a separate BODY ASSEMBLY WSM and I believe he bought a copy. I don't know if the info is in it or not. Maybe ask him.

How did the core support mount turn out?

Please post any info here on this thread.

Got the kit from one of the major suppliers, do not recall which one now. The only thing it had in it is the sheet of paper you posted earlier. i know which parts go with which. I was not sure if the round pad when on the inside of car or outside. I am assuming from what was on the old bolt/pads is that it goes on the inside with the square one on the outside thus capturing the body between them.



Radiator core support looks good. I posted a pic back in that thread. Just got to replacing the body pads as would be easier without the fenders on

[KULTULZ]

I was not sure if the round pad when on the inside of car or outside. I am assuming from what was on the old bolt/pads is that it goes on the inside with the square one on the outside thus capturing the body between them

How did they come apart?

[56sedandelivery]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

How did they come apart?

Basically in pieces. The square pad were on the outside between the body and frame. The inside not much left except for the star washer.That is why I want to make sure before I put it back together. Also the pads were some sort of fiber something or other and not rubber. If I do not see otherwise I will install as in this pic.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by 56sedandelivery

Basically in pieces. The square pad were on the outside between the body and frame. The inside not much left except for the star washer.

That is why I want to make sure before I put it back together. Also the pads were some sort of fiber something or other and not rubber. If I do not see otherwise I will install as in this pic.

That looks correct to me even though I have never had a 55/56 apart. I would think the flat insulators are of a material similar to tire casing to allow it to live for years.

If you look closely at the diagram, it gives assembly detail for each position.

Where did you come across that ILL?

Now you may also have to shim some mounts as to level the body correctly as to have the doors close correctly, etc. I think you have it figured out and THANX again for sharing the info.

BODY SHIMS are shown below -

[Daves55Sedan]

Square thick pad goes between car frame and floor support structure of car body. That is the only thing you will need under the car floor (unless you find that a spot needs a shim to push up against underside of floor).
Then, above the floor, push the round pad down into the formed hole in the floor panel. The big funny shaped washers go on top of the round pad with the star-shaped hole facing upwards. Then push the bolt thru and align with the speed-nut in the car frame Bracket.
If bolt doesn't align with nut when the round pad and washer are centered in the floor hole, you can go down below and tap the speed nut to make it align with the bolt. Those holes on the car frame bracket are oversized and slotted for maximum adjustability. Cool, huh?

[56sedandelivery]

Thanks guys. Looks good to go. The #4 drivers side had two shims so will just use the again. The illustration I made up. Thanks again.

One last thing, how tight do you tighten the bolt?

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by 56sedandelivery

Thanks guys. Looks good to go. The #4 drivers side had two shims so will just use the again. The illustration I made up. Thanks again.

One last thing, how tight do you tighten the bolt?

If you made that ILL, you are a man of many talents ...

Below is an ILL of the mounts giving torque values. I do not know the source as Jwahite (1956 SW) included it in one of his earlier posts (2018) describing his ordeal.

[56sedandelivery]

[QUOTE=KULTULZ;2110581]If you made that ILL, you are a man of many talents ...



Thanks for the torques specs. Many talents bwaaahahahahaha.

[KULTULZ]

OK ... The ILL posted above is a partial scan from the 1955 WSM (NOV 1954 - Pg. 195) so the torque values will be correct (1956 should be the same as JW has a 1956 WSM). I will try to scan the complete ILL and post it.

[56sedandelivery]

It is done. Broke the #10 drivers side loose finally. The rest of them went easy. Loosened both sides then removed the drivers side first. Jacked it up and laid on a few 2x4s. Then wire brushed the mounts and installed new pads. Tightened it down to 20 ft pounds and done, I hope.

[KULTULZ]

She's going to ride like a CADILLAC ... er ... LINCOLN

[miker98038]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Deleted

[PapaDave]

The acetone/ATF combo is the best penetrant I’ve found yet.